Good American Commanders (2 Viewers)

Lewey Gun Vick said:
Chris, gotta agree on Stormin' Norman, my father fought in Just Cause, Desert Shield, and Desert Storm, my father BTW was a Ranger, and served with the 82nd and isn't very fond of Norman! That said, I don't think it's right to say the airborne is just the same as any other unit, the airborne is elite, and airborne unit is the best light infantry one can insert onto the field of engagement. Also, a paratrooper can be caught off without support for hours, and be on his own, with his only friend being his rifle! Remember, before some officer said eveyrone else should be able to wear a beret it was only what units that could wear a beret....AIRBORNE!!! But, what can I say, I'm biased as a proud son of a paratrooper!:D;)

Respects, and All the Best!
Vick
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:D:D I hear you bud. From an operations standpoint, Airborne units are no different than any other infantry division- again- they insert by air into enemy territory to find and engage the enemy and destroy his warfighting capability. The air insertion capability allows them to hit some targets faster (ie- railways or communciations stations that are pretty far inland) but otherwise, there are several capable infantry units out there that could accomplish the same task- namely 10th mountain, First Cav (not a light infantry unit granted), any of the Ranger Batts, BRO, my alma matter the 2ID, and the old 7ID- Lightfighter- who were closed in the mid 1990's. 3ID and 4ID are as competent as any as well (though not neccesarily what I would consider light either).

As far as being seperated for long periods of time- well, things have changes some since your father and I were humping rucks for a living. Things like Predator drones and such have really enhanced aerial support. Even the use of Helos has helped to ensure that another Bulge type experience doesn't happen again- I'm not saying it won't just that there are some additional assets commanders in the field can bring to bear.

Take care Hardcore!! :)
CC
 
Interesting how it appears as if Navy and Marine Commanders were left off this list................:D:D (a little interservice rivalry here fellas).

I cannot think of any reason why Admiral Nimitz or Chesty Puller are off this list. :confused:

This thread has revealed some interesting thoughts. While I don't agree with a lot Mac ever did, no one put in more theater command time than General Mac and he should be given his respect from that standpoint.

The tough "stat" if you will, to measure a commander by is making the tough calls. You see some of that in SPR when Cpt. Miller talks about "Sacrificing" troops. There are several scenarios that play out where commanders make decisions that get their men killed but in the end, how many lives did they save?? Tough one to measure for sure.

I often look at commanders issues more at the chain of command level rather than individual level. In my opinion, the two most important levels of command in the US army are 1.) Lt Colonel O5 and 2.) First Sergeant (or Master Sgt ) E8. Here's why:

1.) The Lt Colonel- commands a battalion of men- was the central focus of operation planning and strategic goals. Typically responsible for 3-4 rifle companies. If there is a weak Lt Colonel in charge, strategic positions are compromised through the misallocation of resources (ie manpower or supporting firepower- mortars, arty, etc). When you read about positions being overrun, it typically occurs because of a failure to plug a gap at a battalion level (or in the case of the Bulge- the Corps level :eek:). Viewers were treated to watching Hal Moore as a LT Colonel in We were soldiers- combine a strong Lt Col with a competent CSM (Virgil Plumley) and you have an all star team like Joe Montana and Jerry Rice.

2.) The 1SG- Captains typically command a rifle company. There can be a great divergence in experience at this level of command given that the Cpt could be still only a few years removed from college (unlike the LtCol who has a good decade behind him). Cpts are learning how to coordinate platoons (which they were used to) to now four platoons as part of a company. There can be vast differences in experience, training and maturity levels which can lead to disaster at the company level. When that happens, the first shirt (with 15-20 years of experience) comes along and rallies the troops.

That's my thoughts,
CC
 
Currahee Chris said:
there are several capable infantry units out there that could accomplish the same task- namely 10th mountain, First Cav (not a light infantry unit granted), any of the Ranger Batts, BRO, my alma matter the 2ID, and the old 7ID- Lightfighter- who were closed in the mid 1990's. 3ID and 4ID are as competent as any as well (though not neccesarily what I would consider light either).

As far as being seperated for long periods of time- well, things have changes some since your father and I were humping rucks for a living. Things like Predator drones and such have really enhanced aerial support. Even the use of Helos has helped to ensure that another Bulge type experience doesn't happen again- I'm not saying it won't just that there are some additional assets commanders in the field can bring to bear.
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Chris, sure they could get the job done, just not as fast or good!:eek::D;) (Sorry just being me again with my d*mn pride!;))

On the Bulge type problem, going to have to disagree, let us not forget Blackhawk Down when 19 Americans were killed because a politician was being a politician and not a leader because sending tanks and AC-130 gunships because he didn't want to seem he was esculating the war!:eek::mad::( A Bulge sceniaro can always happen when you don't commit everything to the battlefield and let politics in the way.

"LET'S GO!"- 325th Airborne Infantry
Vick:)
 
Was there ever such a thing ,after all it was monty who rescued the situation during the ardennes bulge episode in 1944,good old monty was always one step ahead of his american counterparts, the consumate professional surrounded by amateurs.Monty was by far the best military / set piece commander in the western allies.
 
forlornhoper said:
Was there ever such a thing ,after all it was monty who rescued the situation during the ardennes bulge episode in 1944,good old monty was always one step ahead of his american counterparts, the consumate professional surrounded by amateurs.Monty was by far the best military / set piece commander in the western allies.
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And we're off and running...
 
forlornhoper said:
Was there ever such a thing ,after all it was monty who rescued the situation during the ardennes bulge episode in 1944,good old monty was always one step ahead of his american counterparts, the consumate professional surrounded by amateurs.Monty was by far the best military / set piece commander in the western allies.
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Oh dear...

Reading Omar Bradley's memoirs had given me the impression that Patton's masterful re-orientation of his 3rd Army was what saved the day. However Im willing to bet this is one of those moments that it matters which side of the Atlantic one is from.
 
jazzeum said:
Only if you take the bait:)
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Good point; just remember that trolls live under bridges, but also like to pop up on forums too.

Must be happy hour in somones world I can see.............
 
Is it Baiting/Trolling, or just someone with an alternative viewpoint. I don't always agree with what people say on this forum but I feel they should have the right to express their opinion.

Personally I agree with him that Montgomery was the best set piece allied commander in WWII, and he certainly did provide competent leadership to the American forces North of the Bulge.

However in reality it wasn't the leadership but the determination of the average GI (not only those of the 101st) that halted the German advance. That said, there was no way the Germans would have made it to the coast due to their lack of logistical support.
 
I'm going off the modern wars for a minute and ask who was the best divisional and brigade commanders in the ACW,both union and confederate.I've always heard that Cleburne was one of the best commanders.I know some were good brigade commanders but did not fare so well at divisional command.
Mark
 
It was all tonge in cheek people,of course there were some good American commanders,Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse,cant think of anymore worthy of a mention.
 
forlornhoper said:
It was all tonge in cheek people,of course there were some good American commanders,Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse,cant think of anymore worthy of a mention.
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Tsk, tsk, tsk. Opie is fishing again. Better watch out for them there Piranhas.
 
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