More thoughts on a lazy day (1 Viewer)

wadepat

Moderator
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
3,231
More Reflections of a Lazy Day

Gentle Friends,

Here I sit in my study drinking coffee and reflecting on my experience in Schaumburg. I am still unpacking and inspecting the wonderful treasures I found there. So far, they all seem undamaged and beautiful.

As I examine my small fighting forces, my thoughts turn to the many posts that people have made concerning the errors, the sculpting, the painting, and other alleged imperfections of today's toy soldier makers. I recall discussions of incorrect shoulder patches, painted windshield and cockpit windows, inadequate detailing, and poor packaging. And,...who could possibly forget the never-ending discussion of the tracks on King and Country fighting vehicles?

As I consider these past discussions, I ask myself why are some collectors so obsessed with such details. One answer I consider is that many collectors seem to seek perfection in that which they collect. If perfectionism is the goal, then I am just a bit saddened by this fact. It seems to me that perfectionism is a doomed quest for it can never be fully achieved. To seek perfection is to always experience some form of disappointment. At its worst, the quest for perfection can result in depression, disgust, and great frustration.

What seems to me to be far healthier than seeking perfection is to strive for excellence. Striving for excellence implies that one seeks to produce the highest level of performance of which one is capable. When I examine my new toy soldier treasures and I compare them with the toy soldiers of old, I see tremendous improvements in their qualilty. The comparision leaves me with no doubt that today's toy soldier makers demonstrate a significant level of striving for excellence. And,...all of them should be complimented for the wonderful efforts they have made to elevate the level of toy soldier art. I believe we should be very thankful that they are committed to excellence and that they do not become too discouraged by the critical feedback presented by those collectors who seek perfection.

I once again glance at my new found treasures and I think, "Wow! How do these people produce such wonderful figures!"

These are just a few of my thoughts on this lazy day.

See you down the road.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat
 
Last edited:
What a great posting....I have seriously been in this hobby for over 30 years and there was a time when almost everyone I spoke to in our small circle thought the same way. We made great friendships, talked uniforms and history and in short had great fun. I think for the most part that is still in place and only a small number of folks with agendas spin it otherwise.
As as a designer and manufacture of miniatures the landscape has changed only in the availability of information to the masses with the internet and specialty publications. There was a time when you could impress someone with the weight of a WWII Sherman tank. Now most folks can tell you that with or without stowage and ammo, model by model.
As far as perfection...you are spot on here also. All of the companies large and small have continued to improve their products for many reasons and I can tell you that in some cases it is as much for the personal satisfaction of the owners of the companies as it is for the people at point of purchase. This is largly because most of the key players still love what they do and have a passion for history and miniatures. It would be nice for some folks to consider this before they unleash thoughtless comments about this or that. It is really pretty easy to suggest something or evaluate a product without trashing it or the folks that make it.
This is a great time for the new people that are coming into the hobby and we need them to carry on as with anything. It is up to all of us to be civil, share information and open new doors so our little trasures will always have a home in someones collection when we are no longer here to look over them.
Ken Osen/Hudson & Allen Studio/ONWTC
 
After reading Pat's post, I wish I could say something profound and as intellingent and perceptive as Pat has said. Unfortunately, I can't. The only thing that comes to mind is a pithy unimaginative "what a great post." Pat, thank you for your contributions to this board.
 
Pat, I also want to say "great post", my feelings exactly.
I,ve posted this before but here goes again.
Whenever people complain that the hatch on this or that tank is incorrect etc. I always go back, and not really that long ago, that the only tank out there was a completely undersized, non realistic Marx tank.
I,m truely grateful the strives the current people who produce metal and plastic are doing.
Enjoy the things, and don,t be so hasty to find things wrong.
Gary
 
Thumbs up for the discerning buyer, otherwise we'd still be driving Model T Fords.

Some people don't like to see changes and improvement and I suspect most collectors of traditional toy soldiers would fall into that category. I came into this hobby from the plastic kit culture where increased detail was the aim of all manufactures and collector/builders.

Therefore when I arrived on this forum some time ago it was natural for me to expect improvements in pieces that were being touted as being the best in the world when clearly they were not. And it seems most other forum members have appreciated the improvements we have recently seen in this industry.
 
Last edited:
I am with Pat on this one. And quite frankly, I like the stuff of old, if only because there was not the constant major whinning from the few over the minor details, that for years ,no body cared about. Now ,the push for "realistic" have driven the prices up as each new improvement adds that much more cost. And the kicker is, the ones who complain the most, seem to collect this stuff the least ,because, no matter how correct the mfg. try to get, the naysayers will always find one more minor reason not to buy. I have seen it in the toy train crowd and it is happening here. Thanks, Michael
 
Hi Guys,

Congratulations to Wadepat and Ken Osen on starting and following up on this very interesting thread.

I heartily concur with Ken that all of us who love this hobby and share a passion for it through our businesses have constantly tried to improve and upgrade our products and ideas…year in year out.

I also agree that the time has never been better to get into the hobby and the choice and selection has never been greater or more varied or of a higher quality than it is right now.

Now, that’s not to say it can’t get better – of course it can and that’s also part of the fun in being involved as both a collector and a manufacturer.

As some of you might expect I do not agree with Ozdigger’s assertion that when he arrived on the forum all of us were sitting around mightily satisfied with ourselves and making silly claims that we were the “best in the world”. Where did that come from and…who said it?

Improvements and innovations have been the lifeblood of the “New Toy Soldier” for many years now and I hope and trust for many years to come.

All of us in the hobby and this business can learn from each other…and frequently do. Let’s go forward together.

Best wishes and…happy collecting!

Andy C.
 
There is no evidence that increased detail has caused higher prices.

We have been told by several of the manufacturers that the bulk of the price increases are the result of higher labor costs, this was made worse by higher fuel, freight and material (zinc etc) prices.

Treefrog have said they will be selling Patriot's new Napoleonic figures for only $21 each. I couldn't see anything wrong with them myself, and the price is right :)

Wow, Oz has nothing to whinge about there. I'm sure you'll all now think I have some hidden agenda. You're wrong, I just tell it like it is, get over it.

Edit in response to post by Andy C.
There were such claims on the old K & C site and the following is from the Corporate Information section of the current King & Country website: "....military and civilian miniatures that are the finest on the market....."

That seems a lot like the "best in the world" to me.
 
Last edited:
As this discussion evolves and engenders the potential for strong feelings, I would like to remind everyone (and I am not singling any person here) to try to keep the discussion civil and to the issues.
 
As this discussion evolves and engenders the potential for strong feelings, I would like to remind everyone (and I am not singling any person here) to try to keep the discussion civil and to the issues.

Do it right...............................for a hundred dollar or more a pop...........or I ain't buying it.............Sorry Firebat

PS Although I have to say there is not much to complain about lately:)
 
It's funny how this thread has evolved. I started reading Pat's post and it kind of put me in a dream state of satisfaction about him sitting in front of his collection drinking coffee and admiring what he has collected over time. I know when I need to calm down and take a break I do the same thing and it gives me inner peace.

As I read further through the thread my inner feelings of peace seem to disappear and I get on edge again. We all seem to want our collectibles to be absolutely perfect but does that mean that because they are not I can't get that warm and fuzzy feeling when I sit and enjoy a cup of coffe and stare at my collection and fall back into that dream again? I know that the reason I collect toy soldiers is to give me that feeling. If it did not I wouldn't be here.

Maybe we should all read into what Pat has written and sit and enjoy that coffe with him.

Pat please continue to write those thoughts of yours. I will always enjoy reading them.

Bill Sager
 
Having just finished my coffee reading this thread ( i need a bigger cup) I was compelled to comment. I love them all. New and old styles. They all have their place. I just picked up one Imperial Mameluke Drummer and a Steadfast Camel w/waterbarrels and native handler. The other day it was King and Country. I will purchase more as I see things I enjoy. Like the K&C Santa and Drummerboys as soon as it gets in. I love my coffee and soldiers! Thanks for being here all of you! You all contribute and I look forward to meeting you as I progress in this hobby. Michael:)
 
Hi All,

I have to agree with what Pat and Bill have said and maybe take it a little further with the thought that maybe some folks should try applying a little zen to their out look and be less troubled by the apparent lack of absolute right and be happy that someone is trying their best to produce as accurate a model as can be done.

Some of the collectors out there strive for the best there is and thats fine with me I sometimes wonder if I dont do that too. But I also do sit in the man cave that is my office surrounded by my dusty books and old Army equipment, awards and toy soldiers and ponder what it was like to be in India 100 to 150 years ago and enjoy the pomp and splender that was the Raj. So guys take a deeper look at the models and figures you collect and sip that fresh brewed coffee and think about why you collect whatever it is you collect and enjoy them. Leave the stress at the office or better yet just leave it.

Hope you all have a great day.

Dave
 
As I read further through the thread my inner feelings of peace seem to disappear and I get on edge again. We all seem to want our collectibles to be absolutely perfect but does that mean that because they are not I can't get that warm and fuzzy feeling when I sit and enjoy a cup of coffe and stare at my collection and fall back into that dream again? I know that the reason I collect toy soldiers is to give me that feeling. If it did not I wouldn't be here.

Bill Sager

I certainly don't expect my collectables to be perfect, but I do try and get the best example(s) I can. For instance I recently bought another Britains Afrika Korps Kubelwagen as it had the original figures that my other one was missing. So folks, I do have some 'toys' in my collection and many of those are far from perfect.

Lucky for me I'm not one of those people that must have perfection and I also am happy to sit and drink my coffee whilst checking out my collection. But sometimes I stop drinking, get up and move some models around to make them look that little bit better. Ok, I'll admit to being fussy - a perfectionist - never :)
 
The conclusion that I have reached from reading this thread and the one concerning how slow the K&C website is that some members of the toy soldier collecting community are consuming far too coffee and therefore, way too much caffeine and it is making them much too critical and impatient! Please try switching to decaf.:D

Pat, absolutely terrific post, and that's from someone who can think of several posts he had never posted.:eek:

And as for the state of the quality of product coming from all our favorite manufacturers, I couldn't be more pleased.:)

Fred
 
Forget the coffee, I would rather sit back with a beer or maybe a six pack and enjoy my collection.
Gary
 
Pat is a real gentleman and it is hard to disagree with him, but I do, and this thread needs to stay warm and fuzzy. So if anyone wants to get into the nuts and bolts of realism etc. continue this discussion on the Battle Scene Productions / Behind the Scenes section on www.toysoldierschat.com :) :) Respectfully Alex
 
Let me just nudge my point to view a tiny bit further (If you want to yell at me do it on the other Forum, as I mentioned). Many of us have worked hard to point out some lack of detail etc.to the Manufacturers, and it has payed off. The stuff coming out now is fantastic. This stuff is getting a bit pricey and should reflect the newest and best technology, at the current pricing. If we show the Manufacturers we are all warm and fuzzy with the current level of detail, there may not be further improvements. My concern is for us, not them. Firebat
 
This thread makes me both proud of and profoundly disappointed in my fellow collectors and this hobby in general. What I think many of the folks on this thread (myself included at times) fail to recognize is that toy soldiers or military miniatures are by definition an artform (sculpted and painted figures). There is no such thing as perfection in art. Art is a means of expression. The artist has a vision, and uses his talent and hard learned skill and tecnique to express this vision in the way he, the artist, chooses. Some artists pursue realism. Some want to give their impressions of their subject. Some seek to reproduce styles from an earlier epoch about which they hold fond memories.

Pat and Ken Osen couldn't be more right: strive to improve, but stay true to your method or methods of expression. While I love the present state of dramatic realism, some, indeed, many of my favorite collectibles are more traditional glossy toy soldiers which have a toyish quality I find charming.

If photographic realism was the be all and end all of art, we would all only look at the works of the French Acadamie, and geniouses like Giotto, Michelangelo, Leonardo Da Vinci, Goya, Velesquez, Renoir, Rodin, Chagall, Picasso and Jorge Tacla would be rejected as imperfect, in that their works were not perfect photographic reproductions of their subject. Sorry guys, but it doesn't work with painting and sculpture, and it doesn't work with Toy Soldiers. Everyone is entitled to chose their own favorite, but only a really closed minded person doesn't accept that choosing a favorite is a matter of taste, not a matter of truth.

But hey, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top