Market Place in Free-fall....Look Out Below! (1 Viewer)

[Peter Reuss]

Let me clarify my actions...

One of the challenges of a Forum like this is that people's 'tone of voice' can be hard to interpret. The exact same words can be playful banter between two friends...or it can be snarky attacks among those who don't like each other much.

As moderators, we have the challenge of discerning which is which - and it's not always easy. The mods in this case read the posts as snarky and responded as such, deleting the posts. As both sides let us know this was not the intention of the posts, I have restored them.

Pete

 

[jbonzo1]

Let me clarify my actions...

One of the challenges of a Forum like this is that people's 'tone of voice' can be hard to interpret. The exact same words can be playful banter between two friends...or it can be snarky attacks among those who don't like each other much.

As moderators, we have the challenge of discerning which is which - and it's not always easy. The mods in this case read the posts as snarky and responded as such, deleting the posts. As both sides let us know this was not the intention of the posts, I have restored them.

Pete

This is the first time I have read a response from a moderator like this. Kudos, sir.

 

[wds0855]

Yes that was very admirable response by Peter.

Walt

 

[Gideon]

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I hope the $9.99 listing guys are happy now, I feel they are directly responsible for

the current state of the market.

Really?

So, I suppose that the ending price has no bearing on anything nor does the number of active buyers vs people selling.

Who cares what somebody lists something at so long as the seller is not "stepping on other peoples toes". The seller who does the research to see if others are selling the same item is the responsible one no matter what the start price is.

When I began to see the "strictly limited" sets brand new just released sit on eBay by multiple sellers I knew something was up - and what might that something be?

With the reduction in collections, with more people buying less, of course you're going to see dealers and others scrambling to lose excess inventory and, yes, they will have to compete with each other to move stuff out.

On the other hand, seeing a WS16 go for $160 something bucks is unnerving but that's what it went for. Had this seller put a BIN on there for $250 - $300, protecting the "investment" value of the item doesn't mean anything. The actual sell price of the item might still be $160. The only way to tell is to watch what happens the next time a similar one is listed.

If you think that everybody should agree to sell something not below a certain price, well that's called price fixing and is borderline illegal.

What people list items at is their business. What matters is how active and healthy the buying community is.

Blaming people for their listing strategies is ridiculous. It wasn't that long ago a set could be listed at 99 cents and reach retail/close to if new and more if retired. What changed is what the buyers are doing.

 

[Njja]

Really?

So, I suppose that the ending price has no bearing on anything nor does the number of active buyers vs people selling.

Who cares what somebody lists something at so long as the seller is not "stepping on other peoples toes". The seller who does the research to see if others are selling the same item is the responsible one no matter what the start price is.


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Ending price actually has everything to do with it......the first time.

A strong ending price creates interest which usually draws similar items into the marketplace from new sellers.

If you see an item you have sell for lets say $500 and you are motivated to sell yours you believe you can get a similar price. If yours sells

for $125 a normal person is going to feel like they left $375 on the table.....if they are being honest.

There are only 2 reasons for listing an item that has just brought $500 for a starting price of $9.99 (example) :

1. Reduced listing fees.......or

2. Perceived edge on other sellers. I don't buy the entire "Create Excitement" idea......bottom line is selling price, since

you can't take excitement to the bank last time I checked.

As I stated before if you see an item sell one day for $500.....and see it listed the next day for $9.99 market is shot! Everyone knows that

no one would sell a $500 item for $10 so they will assume it was never worth $500 in the first place.

Now add to this the $.01 lister (getting an edge on the $9.99) lister......oh sorry, he just wants to create excitement and you have

the current Circus we now all enjoy!

 

[Njja]

Really?

When I began to see the "strictly limited" sets brand new just released sit on eBay by multiple sellers I knew something was up - and what might that something be?

With the reduction in collections, with more people buying less, of course you're going to see dealers and others scrambling to lose excess inventory and, yes, they will have to compete with each other to move stuff out.

...............................................................................................

Excellent points, and a difficult situation to deal with. We have seen it many

times before, and it would seem most manufacters can't help themselves.

They simply over produce their items until the market explodes.

 

[Njja]

Really?

On the other hand, seeing a WS16 go for $160 something bucks is unnerving but that's what it went for. Had this seller put a BIN on there for $250 - $300, protecting the "investment" value of the item doesn't mean anything. The actual sell price of the item might still be $160. The only way to tell is to watch what happens the next time a similar one is listed.

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This is most unfortunate for the sellers but good for the buyers!

Some collectors will sell out (this is already happening). Selection of really nice items will fall off as most smart collectors will not give them away.

Manufacters & dealers will have serious issues as sales swirl down the drain compaired to last couple of years with all the speculators.

Do you ever wonder how many of the "New" sellers are actually dealers with different id's dumping stuff?

I believe companies like Figarti that truely "Limit" their production will be much better off since only a small portion of their inventory goes to people

other then actual collectors.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I think the condition of the market creates different effects on listing strategy. In a seller's market, how an item is listed probably has little effect on it's final selling price. Demand is greater than supply and there are a large number of buyers compared to listings of a particular item. The less frequently a specific model appears on e-bay, the greater the upward pressure on price. Bidders know the item will show up infrequently and a few are prepared to pay more than previously just to get the item. If listed at a low starting price, the price will be bid up to market because of buyer demand. If started at a high price, buyer demand will still generate bids because buyers know the item is in demand and they will have to pay for it - prices are only going up in a seller's market.

In a buyer's market, like now, how an item is listed has more impact than in a seller's market. There is more opportunity for buyers to get a low price as there are relatively more listings of an item compared to fewer buyers for that particular item and even fewer buyers willing to pay a high price. The less rare an item, the bigger the effect of how it is listed. If listed at a high price, it won't attract bids as buyers are reluctant to spend money and also know there are deals to be had. If listed at a low price to attract buyers to bid, it will likely sell at a low price, especially if it is a common or only slightly rarely listed item.

Terry

 

[Njja]

Really?

If you think that everybody should agree to sell something not below a certain price, well that's called price fixing and is borderline illegal.
.......................................................................................................

Even you can't believe that statement!

In a free market, everyone is free to do as they please, we have sellers from

all over the world, 95% of which do not know each other, so to even bring up

price fixing is silly.

 

[kogu]

If you see an item you have sell for lets say $500 and you are motivated to sell yours you believe you can get a similar price. If yours sells
for $125 a normal person is going to feel like they left $375 on the table.....if they are being honest.


If that would happen to me then I would think that the collector, who paid $500.00 for an item, pretty much got screwed due to the "rare" and "hard to find" hype, and the collector who got the item from me for $125.00 made me realize what this stuff is really worth.

Konrad

 

[Njja]

Really?

What people list items at is their business. What matters is how active and healthy the buying community is.

Blaming people for their listing strategies is ridiculous. It wasn't that long ago a set could be listed at 99 cents and reach retail/close to if new and more if retired. What changed is what the buyers are doing.

...................................................................................................

Except when their actions ruin the market place for everyone else.

Once when the market was small an item listed for $.99 might reach

what could be considered a reasonable market price......after all we had little

history to go by.

Today nothing any longer has value, we now have items listed at $.01

it is the natural evolution of things.

If a seller lists an item that sold last week for $500 for $9.99

today all he has done is spoil the market place. He has ruined the last

transaction, reduced anyone elses chance of acquiring the piece since other

sellers most likely will not list their.....and even put himself in the position

of watching his item sit at $17.50 until the last second while

everyone hopes for a bargin.

Makes no sense to me, but here we are.

 

[thebritfarmer]

Here is an idea lets get rid of the auction side of eBay and then just make it a shop. Everything sold at MSRP

 

[Peter Reuss]

Gentlemen - there are differing opinions on the subject, but let's remember that they are just that: opinions!

We've covered this ground many times before. There are differing strategies and motivations for selling. In an open marketplace, each seller has a right to do as they want. If an item sells for a low price, that may concern people holding the item in a collection, but it's a joy for the person buying it. Two sides to the same coin.

This isn't a bad topic for discussion as long as we can respect those who disagree.

 

[Njja]

I think the condition of the market creates different effects on listing strategy. In a seller's market, how an item is listed probably has little effect on it's final selling price. Demand is greater than supply and there are a large number of buyers compared to listings of a particular item. The less frequently a specific model appears on e-bay, the greater the upward pressure on price. Bidders know the item will show up infrequently and a few are prepared to pay more than previously just to get the item. If listed at a low starting price, the price will be bid up to market because of buyer demand. If started at a high price, buyer demand will still generate bids because buyers know the item is in demand and they will have to pay for it - prices are only going up in a seller's market.

In a buyer's market, like now, how an item is listed has more impact than in a seller's market. There is more opportunity for buyers to get a low price as there are relatively more listings of an item compared to fewer buyers for that particular item and even fewer buyers willing to pay a high price. The less rare an item, the bigger the effect of how it is listed. If listed at a high price, it won't attract bids as buyers are reluctant to spend money and also know there are deals to be had. If listed at a low price to attract buyers to bid, it will likely sell at a low price, especially if it is a common or only slightly rarely listed item.

Terry

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I'm going with what Terry Said!

First of all he is a lot smarter then I am!

I know that because all of his sentences made sense, and all the words

were speled correctly......something I have never been accused of.

On a serious note, his points were excellent and well thought out!

Show off!

 

[Njja]

Gentlemen - there are differing opinions on the subject, but let's remember that they are just that: opinions!

We've covered this ground many times before. There are differing strategies and motivations for selling. In an open marketplace, each seller has a right to do as they want. If an item sells for a low price, that may concern people holding the item in a collection, but it's a joy for the person buying it. Two sides to the same coin.

This isn't a bad topic for discussion as long as we can respect those who disagree.

...................................................................................................

Trying to have a discussion, not trying to offend anyone, simply replying.

 

[ecuriel]

I think it is important to understand that despite thinking there is perfect information about the toy soldier "Market", the reality is that this market is very inefficient. What makes a market is the bid-offer spread. The wider the spread, the less efficient. Thus, a locked market, is the most efficient, Bid-offer = zero. This means a transaction should be made, and my prior business the trade had to be made. I believe motivation is the primary force in this kind of market. I was looking to purchase a companion rare set from a dealer. I had just purchased a similiar set on ebay for $750. He had his listed for over $2,300! This guy doesn't know the market nor does he care. The fact that you have market participants that don't care so much about buying or selling at more than the "market price" adds to the chaos. My point in all this? Good luck trying to make science out of this art.

 

[Njja]

If you see an item you have sell for lets say $500 and you are motivated to sell yours you believe you can get a similar price. If yours sells
for $125 a normal person is going to feel like they left $375 on the table.....if they are being honest.


If that would happen to me then I would think that the collector, who paid $500.00 for an item, pretty much got screwed due to the "rare" and "hard to find" hype, and the collector who got the item from me for $125.00 made me realize what this stuff is really worth.

Konrad

....................................................................................................

Only if the collector you speak of has no responsibility for his actions.

I just spent $500 for a resin kublewagen, I knew the seller, he provides great

products and excellent packaging and I felt the price was very fair. If

I saw a similar one tomorrow for $125 I would buy it, and think nothing of

either transaction because I know what I am doing. (Wife would disagree)

 

[Njja]

I think it is important to understand that despite thinking there is perfect information about the toy soldier "Market", the reality is that this market is very inefficient. What makes a market is the bid-offer spread. The wider the spread, the less efficient. Thus, a locked market, is the most efficient, Bid-offer = zero. This means a transaction should be made, and my prior business the trade had to be made. I believe motivation is the primary force in this kind of market. I was looking to purchase a companion rare set from a dealer. I had just purchased a similiar set on ebay for $750. He had his listed for over $2,300! This guy doesn't know the market nor does he care. The fact that you have market participants that don't care so much about buying or selling at more than the "market price" adds to the chaos. My point in all this? Good luck trying to make science out of this art.

...............................................................................................

Very well put, good luck with your companion set. Hope you find it for a

reasonable price.

 

[ecuriel]

....................................................................................................

Only if the collector you speak of has no responsibility for his actions.

I just spent $500 for a resin kublewagen, I knew the seller, he provides great

products and excellent packaging and I felt the price was very fair. If

I saw a similar one tomorrow for $125 I would buy it, and think nothing of

either transaction because I know what I am doing. (Wife would disagree)

We call that "dollar cost averaging". Now you have 2 @ $312.50.

 

[Njja]

We call that "dollar cost averaging". Now you have 2 @ $312.50.

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I'll have you know there is little room for an educated mind in one of my

discussions.

I find that if you do your research then you can make a deal and move on.

Better to look forward then worry about something thats already over.