Soldier Costs Not Equal Debate.. (1 Viewer)

[VIRIATO]

Just to recognize - FL's difference with K&C is not magic. The key difference is FL's distribution model. Without dealers K&C could offer an individual figure at roughly half. Going through US dealers FL would have to roughly double its price.

Its not fair to compare the comapnies' products, straight up, without taking that significant difference into account.

To those who'd prefer the industry abandon the dealer distribution model so collector prices would be more "affordable", I say be careful what you wish for.

There are FL dealers in Europe and FL's prices are not higher here because of that.

Paulo

 

[VIRIATO]

They are ALL getting too expensive. My real fear is that this is becoming a rich man's hobby and that there will soon be no room for collectors like me that have small and shrinking budgets. I will go down fighting, though. Just love it too much. -- Al

Yes, the bottom line is they are all getting too expensive. But with FL you can argue that they are making it easier to access connoisseur figures. Others will follow suit (Aeroart/Figarti partnership), the good fruits of competition for consumers I guess. Are they still too expensive? Like you I would go down fighting, if I can't make it to big displays than I'll just accept that sometimes less is more...

Paulo

 

[VIRIATO]

I still give the nod to the St Pete figures but feel like the price difference is so vast that it more than bridges the artistic difference. In the end, St. Pete is the Rolls Royce of the TS world. At the end of the day though, I would gladly take 3 First Legion romans over a St. Pete $165 roman

And end up paying the same... But Chris, we do need to get those FL Romans out first...Admittedly I have held out on some Aeroart Romans because I would like to see first what we get from FL on this area...

Paulo

 

[VIRIATO]

The reason is K&C is the biggest manufacturer and therefore a easier target.
I do think K&C takes flak for the rest of the hobby. I also think that because other manufacturers do not release with the same intent or output as K&C their releases slip under the radar of collectors in terms of price though, that does not mean they are cheap its just sometimes collectors are dazzled by terminology and more shading.

Good post
Mitch

If you put a K&C figure side by side with an FL one I am sure you'll agree that normally there is more to it than just terminology or shading. They are different types of figures and to me it looks obvious why the FL figure is more expensive. I am not saying K&C's figures are not nice or that they can not match FL's level if they wanted to, it's just that those brands have opted to do different types of figures with necessarily different price levels. Puzzling choices for consumers...

Paulo

 

[damian]

The world is in a pretty deep financial recession all round. I cannot see it ending just like that. So something like our hobby is going to be affected one way or the other.

 

[thebritfarmer]

It strikes me that as the cost of toy soldiers and vehicles escalate, there is not a fair and balanced member response to the issue, dependent on the mfg. Some seem intent to take verbal potshots at the new K/C higher prices, yet not a peep to the always high end lists for First Legion items. They started the $300 buck for a vehicle and $50 for one figure free for all, yet there was no outrage to those price points. In fact we were told by members that their offerings were works of art and worth every penny. Members go from forum to forum beating down the K/C price scale, but why no peep on the F/L scale? C/S and Figarti still offer lower prices at the present and should be immune from the " overpriced debate ", but it seems to me that K/C is taking more heat than usual, when they are not the highest priced mfg. around...Some members come across as having an agenda, but we ought not be hypocrites about it..Michael

I would imagine forums do not give an accurate cross section of the collecting community. Perhaps it is that we hear more from K&C collectors on here as that is the main portion of the members.

K&C may not be the highest priced but I don't think you can include all TS makers as equal. Like comparing a Ford Fusion to Jaguar IMO. There are both cars but that is about all. You can't compare FL, Aeroart, etc... with K&C, Figarti, CS, WBritain.....it just doesn't work.

 

[Currahee Chris]

The world is in a pretty deep financial recession all round. I cannot see it ending just like that. So something like our hobby is going to be affected one way or the other.

You would think that would be the case. Bottom line is- none of these guys appear to be listening as prices have steadily risen across all manufacturers or it is just a simple matter of demand> supply and the haves will continue to have and the have nots are SOL- like moi

For the life of me, I cannot understand how Forces of Valor folded or become so irrelevant so quickly. They make the best vehicles, dollar for dollar, bar none. For the cost of two FL, KC, CS AFVs you could own an entire theater of vehicles from FoV. I think theres was a case of supply>demand.

 

[Currahee Chris]

And end up paying the same... But Chris, we do need to get those FL Romans out first...Admittedly I have held out on some Aeroart Romans because I would like to see first what we get from FL on this area...

Paulo

Exactly my friend.

Help me continue to rattle the FL chains!!

 

[uksubs]

You would think that would be the case. Bottom line is- none of these guys appear to be listening as prices have steadily risen across all manufacturers or it is just a simple matter of demand> supply and the haves will continue to have and the have nots are SOL- like moi

For the life of me, I cannot understand how Forces of Valor folded or become so irrelevant so quickly. They make the best vehicles, dollar for dollar, bar none. For the cost of two FL, KC, CS AFVs you could own an entire theater of vehicles from FoV. I think theres was a case of supply>demand.

FOV are still going strong mate , with new stuff coming out this year

 

[Rutledge]

There are FL dealers in Europe and FL's prices are not higher here because of that.

Paulo

See my other post on this matter.

Clearly you cannot insert dealers and maintain the same margins as in a non-dealer distribution strategy. Simple math.

 

[Fusilier]

Toy soldier costs are not equal because all toy soldiers are not equal. As has been said, sometimes comparing companies is like comparing apples to oranges. As long as I can afford the figures from my favorite company, that is what matters to me. I personally don't care what other companies do with thier prices, marketing, ect.

I mean, if I don't collect Company X for example, why would I worry about what they charge? If I only collect Company Y, then the prices and marketing of Company X is a non-issue to me.

Noah

 

[Spitfrnd]

I still give the nod to the St Pete figures but feel like the price difference is so vast that it more than bridges the artistic difference. In the end, St. Pete is the Rolls Royce of the TS world. At the end of the day though, I would gladly take 3 First Legion romans over a St. Pete $165 roman

Well Chris FL has no Romans yet unfortunately but I suggest the Napoleonics certainly meet that test. Overall in that range the horses are better and the poses are more natural. There is no doubt I agree about the 3 FL figures over one SP, just as I would rather have 1 FL figure over 1.6 K&C or 1.7 CS ones.

 

[Rob]

Toy soldier costs are not equal because all toy soldiers are not equal. As has been said, sometimes comparing companies is like comparing apples to oranges. As long as I can afford the figures from my favorite company, that is what matters to me. I personally don't care what other companies do with thier prices, marketing, ect.

I mean, if I don't collect Company X for example, why would I worry about what they charge? If I only collect Company Y, then the prices and marketing of Company X is a non-issue to me.

Noah

Spot on Noah, you said just what I wanted to!.

Rob

 

[Spitfrnd]

If you put a K&C figure side by side with an FL one I am sure you'll agree that normally there is more to it than just terminology or shading. They are different types of figures and to me it looks obvious why the FL figure is more expensive. I am not saying K&C's figures are not nice or that they can not match FL's level if they wanted to, it's just that those brands have opted to do different types of figures with necessarily different price levels. Puzzling choices for consumers...

Paulo

Great response Paulo, it is indeed a bit more than smoke and mirrors.

 

[Alex]

I have I would say at least 500 K&C figures and more than 100 FL figures..

I wish FL figures were cheaper so I would have already 200 in my collection..

Would I buy 200 K&C figures instead of 100 FL figures tomorrow ? no it ain't gonna happen... I want the best there is for my money... And for 50$ that's FL in my book.. And for 150$ to 500$ that's Kolobob or the like.. Aeroart new figures I'm not sure.. there seems to be a drop in quality recently..
But if you really want the best there is, just get some custom work done by a painter/modeller here in North America or Europe... A figure that you chose and that you get painted exactly like you want (heraldry, etc... ).

Now unfortunately, toy soldiers were, are and will always be a luxury hobby... completely useless per se, take some space, collect dust .... what a waste of money Even worse than a 30K watch.. at least a watch serves a certain purpose ...

Cheers,

Alex

 

[nmrocks]

All I can tell you for myself is the politics of toy soldiers has taken the gloss off the Apple for me and driven me to seek refuge in other areas. The price is a minor concern compared to the constant petty and shrill drone of nagging about one thing or another. Really sad....

 

[trooper]

All I can tell you for myself is the politics of toy soldiers has taken the gloss off the Apple for me and driven me to seek refuge in other areas. The price is a minor concern compared to the constant petty and shrill drone of nagging about one thing or another. Really sad....

Couldn't agree with you more. Virtually every thread on the forum ultimately degenerates into the same old argument of King and Country versus First Legion, Britains, Conte or Figarti. The main problem is not with the figures, it is the tunnel vision of the customers. Anything that is in the slightest way possible to interpret as a criticism on the chosen company causes a flood of industrial grade vituperation escalating to Defcon 1. For God's sake dial it back. It is a huge hobby with numerous companies producing excellent and unusual figures. Why not just try to enjoy it?

 

[marco55]

But if you really want the best there is, just get some custom work done by a painter/modeller here in North America or Europe... A figure that you chose and that you get painted exactly like you want (heraldry, etc... ).



I have a 5 figure set (one mounted) I'm getting done in March and it will cost $815 plus $57 for special packaging to ship it to me so it will be about 6 months before I get another kit done.
Mark

 

[Mitch]

Paulo et al...

firstly, you have interpreted my comments to be aimed at FL soley. I am sorry but, as a painter and a decent enough one its all about a little extra work which, includes shading and weathering that makes FL different. That is plain and simple. Whichever way the FL collectors wish to dress it up its a bit more time and effort put into painting.The same applies to Figarti and the way they paint terminology part was across the board SL for K&C means desperate clamour to get one before they sell out shock and awe from Figarti to mean a set can reach astronomical prices the list can go on but, that was my point.

I expect the smoke and mirrors tosh from some its the way they respond to my posts but, all FL have done at its crux is managed to get a room of chinese painters who paint better than K&C etc according to some guys on here. If its not all about shading etc would you pay the FL prices if they were painted to the standard of K&C?? I bet the answer would be no. But, I would venture that if FL got hold of some unpainted K&C and painted them in ''their'' style you guys would buy in the blink of an eye.

And before anyone jumps all over it Please understand, I am not criticising FL etc or the standard of K&C painting etc as I like them both I am just answering the points that seem again to have been somewhat distorted. I do agree with Trooper post below wholeheartedly.
Mitch

Great response Paulo, it is indeed a bit more than smoke and mirrors.

 

[fmethorst]

Paulo et al...

firstly, you have interpreted my comments to be aimed at FL soley. I am sorry but, as a painter and a decent enough one its all about a little extra work which, includes shading and weathering that makes FL different. That is plain and simple. Whichever way the FL collectors wish to dress it up its a bit more time and effort put into painting.The same applies to Figarti and the way they paint terminology part was across the board SL for K&C means desperate clamour to get one before they sell out shock and awe from Figarti to mean a set can reach astronomical prices the list can go on but, that was my point.

I expect the smoke and mirrors tosh from some its the way they respond to my posts but, all FL have done at its crux is managed to get a room of chinese painters who paint better than K&C etc according to some guys on here. If its not all about shading etc would you pay the FL prices if they were painted to the standard of K&C?? I bet the answer would be no. But, I would venture that if FL got hold of some unpainted K&C and painted them in ''their'' style you guys would buy in the blink of an eye.

And before anyone jumps all over it Please understand, I am not criticising FL etc or the standard of K&C painting etc as I like them both I am just answering the points that seem again to have been somewhat distorted. I do agree with Trooper post below wholeheartedly.
Mitch

Actually the FL sculpts are superior as well IMO and that is a big part of the finished product. I also value the research FL puts into their product. While not error free it's pretty darn good.