LOJ 029 The Scholar....... (1 Viewer)

[Northgate Woods]

Hello everyone on Treefrog Forums

This my first post on this website, my friend Ludwig (Bayern) told me that I should come here to discuss one of my favorite topics, toy soldiers, with everyone.

With regards to LOJ029, The Scholar, I will say this: toy soldier hobby very expensive, and for the money that we as collectors pay, we should expect manufacturers to do their research with regards to figures they produce. This figure part of a series based around the time of Christ, yet he has book that would not have existed as presented for at least 400 years, and possibly longer than that in the area that he lived in (Scrolls were very popular in Middle East).

I love K&C product, I have been collecting it for over 5 years now, and most of their World War 2 products well researched, but I have noticed over last few years they have been making bad business decisions. No offense to those forum members from Britain, Australia, or Canada, but most toy soldier collectors live in America, and company like K&C cannot expect to remain in business if they continue to make twice as many British/Canadian/Australian figures as American. Americans sell in America. British don't. I have had several conversations with my dealer friends here in America and they tell me this.

Please forgive my English, it very difficult language for Russian to learn.

Vladimir Brezhnev, but my friends call me Vova

Vova mate,
Welcome to the Forum. Nice way to start off cobber. I like a good kick in the guts while eating my lunch. ^&grin The Lighthorse (bloody good Aussie range) is selling worldwide as admitted by Andy and being released now twice a year. Your good mate Ludwig buys them and I also know a lot of my US mates buy the RAF range. Mate I think their on a winner and you have been talking to the wong people. Just my two bobs worth.
Once again welcome to the Forum.
Cheers from the Land Downunder, Howard

 

[VladimirBrezhnev]

Not sure how anyone knows where the most TS collectors are in the world, if one had to guess, it might where the bigger populations are. Also some collectors have very deep pockets, so numbers of collectors may not be a criteria. The scholar figure is great, the book will be transferred to my Imperial China series, paper around in those days. Never for one moment thought the Americans were outnumbered or ever will be. DDay, AWI, civil war, BOB the list is endless. Every other maker abounds in USA as well, so no shortage, but always nice to have a contrast even it's only Brit's or Ozzies. Cheers, Robin.

With regard to King & Country... my 2 to 1 number references figures in production or announced for production. Not retired figures.

On the British side: RAF (38 sets current), FoB (10 current British sets), NA (38 current British sets), EA (24 current British/Aussie sets), SOE (31 sets from production stand point matt/gloss), BR (17 current), MG (15 current sets) DD (22 current British sets and 6 Canadian sets) RTA (1 English, 1 Irish, and 1 Scottish figure), WWI (4 current British), AL (21 current sets), if I have forgotten any other British figures, forgive me. That makes 239 current British/Australian/Canadian sets being produced by K&C (not including the few MKs to go with Richard the Lionheart).

Versus:
USN (13 sets), USMC (10 sets), AF (10 sets current), TRW (8 current US dragoons), DD (13 sets current), BBA (19 sets current), RTA (18 sets current), and CW (33 sets current).
This makes a total of 114 American figures.

If my math correct, almost 2.1 British/Australian/Canadian figures for every American figure made.

 

[VladimirBrezhnev]

Thanks for the contacts, although I suppose they would only be able to tell me where their customers live which would not be a full cross section of collectors. Both are American dealers. I was hoping that you had numbers. Accuracy is vital, as you say.

King & Country owns Kings X Toy Soldiers and so maybe my friends there know some more about where K&C sells most of their product.

 

[waynepoo]

With regard to King & Country... my 2 to 1 number references figures in production or announced for production. Not retired figures.

On the British side: RAF (38 sets current), FoB (10 current British sets), NA (38 current British sets), EA (24 current British/Aussie sets), SOE (31 sets from production stand point matt/gloss), BR (17 current), MG (15 current sets) DD (22 current British sets and 6 Canadian sets) RTA (1 English, 1 Irish, and 1 Scottish figure), WWI (4 current British), AL (21 current sets), if I have forgotten any other British figures, forgive me. That makes 239 current British/Australian/Canadian sets being produced by K&C (not including the few MKs to go with Richard the Lionheart).

Versus:
USN (13 sets), USMC (10 sets), AF (10 sets current), TRW (8 current US dragoons), DD (13 sets current), BBA (19 sets current), RTA (18 sets current), and CW (33 sets current).
This makes a total of 114 American figures.

If my math correct, almost 2.1 British/Australian/Canadian figures for every American figure made.

And your point is? Andy is no goose he makes what sells and the Iwo Jima range did not sell. And you are assuming that there are no US sets on the way, and I guess you will be proved wrong.
Wayne.

 

[Bayern]

Hello everyone on Treefrog Forums

This my first post on this website, my friend Ludwig (Bayern) told me that I should come here to discuss one of my favorite topics, toy soldiers, with everyone.

With regards to LOJ029, The Scholar, I will say this: toy soldier hobby very expensive, and for the money that we as collectors pay, we should expect manufacturers to do their research with regards to figures they produce. This figure part of a series based around the time of Christ, yet he has book that would not have existed as presented for at least 400 years, and possibly longer than that in the area that he lived in (Scrolls were very popular in Middle East).

I love K&C product, I have been collecting it for over 5 years now, and most of their World War 2 products well researched, but I have noticed over last few years they have been making bad business decisions. No offense to those forum members from Britain, Australia, or Canada, but most toy soldier collectors live in America, and company like K&C cannot expect to remain in business if they continue to make twice as many British/Canadian/Australian figures as American. Americans sell in America. British don't. I have had several conversations with my dealer friends here in America and they tell me this.

Please forgive my English, it very difficult language for Russian to learn.

Vladimir Brezhnev, but my friends call me Vova

I did not mean to cause alarm. I'm sure K&C will be around for several more years at least. I just see them making bad decisions, and with unsteady economy, continuing to make bad decisions will be bad for their business.

As far as where collectors live, you should ask dealers like friendly guys at Kings X Toy Soldiers, or friendly folks at Treefrog Treasures. I just know what I hear from my dealer friends.

Vova!! Or should I say Vlad the Impaler!! You are killing me here!!

I think some of the items that you convert on translation software come out a little different then you intend too. It happens with mine as well.

However, you bring up interesting points. You will learn there are some that appreciate a good honest tell it like it is approach and those that do not. Bear with it and you will like the forum. Expect to be attacked as it is the way of many. Some can not understand even the slightest criticism of the product.

Personally, I would put myself up against anyone on this forum for the most KC product owned piece for piece. Anyone wants to go it, better get real busy on a camera. I would be surprised if there was more than a handful even close. Other then a dealer that has stock in their store that is. I have spent Thousands upon Thousands of dollars on KC's products over the years and with that I have the right to state whether I like something or not.

I agree with you that the accuracy is very important. It is a responsibility. It is not degrading to mention an issue and should not be looked at that way. If I was making this product I would appreciate the FREE feedback, advertisement, etc. I am sure really that KC corporate does. I think Andy is a smart guy that knows that.....so what...they are talking about my product and that helps to sell it..good or bad. Heck, the controversy is probably more of a seller. People love it. Look at the threads that have fighting. They have more hands on them then the knob on the door.

On KC going out of business..I do not see that happening. They are not completely reliant on direct sales for sustenance.

On the Americans as I have posted before a year is a long time on none in any lines. However from the Q/A session we see that they are in the pipeline and that is great. I can only imagine that American dealers are probably wanting them for their buyers. You know America has 37 dealers I believe. The rest of the world combined has 26 KC dealers I believe. That is something to think about.

Welcome aboard and look forward to your posts. What do you have for a collection?

Ludwig

 

[PanzerAce1944]

VladimirBrezhnev; You are correct in your numbers in what is made in reference to each series. A big part of it has to do with what sells and what doesn't.
To add even more what sells quickly and what eventually sells, but at a much slower rate. A few clear examples whether right, wrong, or indifferent would be maybe
for WWII Germans outsell Americans, American WWII D-Day outsells modern day Americans, Civil War Confederates out sell Union figures.

Welcome to the forum.......new input and opinions always welcome :smile2:

 

[Jack]

With regard to King & Country... my 2 to 1 number references figures in production or announced for production. Not retired figures.

On the British side: RAF (38 sets current), FoB (10 current British sets), NA (38 current British sets), EA (24 current British/Aussie sets), SOE (31 sets from production stand point matt/gloss), BR (17 current), MG (15 current sets) DD (22 current British sets and 6 Canadian sets) RTA (1 English, 1 Irish, and 1 Scottish figure), WWI (4 current British), AL (21 current sets), if I have forgotten any other British figures, forgive me. That makes 239 current British/Australian/Canadian sets being produced by K&C (not including the few MKs to go with Richard the Lionheart).

Versus:
USN (13 sets), USMC (10 sets), AF (10 sets current), TRW (8 current US dragoons), DD (13 sets current), BBA (19 sets current), RTA (18 sets current), and CW (33 sets current).
This makes a total of 114 American figures.

If my math correct, almost 2.1 British/Australian/Canadian figures for every American figure made.

I suppose a manufacturer makes what sells rather than balancing production with national interests in mind. If the percentage is indeed 2-1, then that must reflect buying patterns, given that we are talking about one of the big producers with considerable experience in the field. If there is such a hole in the market, presumably other manufactueres will make figures at a similar price/quality and release them at monthly intervals. I personally would not invest in that company, but thats the free market I suppose.

 

[Bayern]

Ludwig ... Meant that in the most positive of ways. Great that you are recruiting new treefroggers to this forum.

Bests
OD

I am sorry. I thought the embarrassment icon was meant as VOva should be embarrassed to be my friend. No problem and thanks for explaining.

Ludwig

 

[VladimirBrezhnev]

Vova!! Or should I say Vlad the Impaler!! You are killing me here!!

However, you bring up interesting points. You will learn there are some that appreciate a good honest tell it like it is approach and those that do not. Bear with it and you will like the forum. Expect to be attacked as it is the way of many. Some can not understand even the slightest criticism of the product.

Personally, I would put myself up against anyone on this forum for the most KC product owned piece for piece. Anyone wants to go it, better get real busy on a camera. I would be surprised if there was more than a handful even close. Other then a dealer that has stock in their store that is. I have spent Thousands upon Thousands of dollars on KC's products over the years and with that I have the right to state whether I like something or not.

I agree with you that the accuracy is very important. It is a responsibility. It is not degrading to mention an issue and should not be looked at that way. If I was making this product I would appreciate the FREE feedback, advertisement, etc. I am sure really that KC corporate does. I think Andy is a smart guy that knows that.....so what...they are talking about my product and that helps to sell it..good or bad. Heck, the controversy is probably more of a seller. People love it. Look at the threads that have fighting. They have more hands on them then the knob on the door.

On KC going out of business..I do not see that happening. They are not completely reliant on direct sales for sustenance.

On the Americans as I have posted before a year is a long time on none in any lines. However from the Q/A session we see that they are in the pipeline and that is great. I can only imagine that American dealers are probably wanting them for their buyers. You know America has 37 dealers I believe. The rest of the world combined has 26 KC dealers I believe. That is something to think about.

Welcome aboard and look forward to your posts. What do you have for a collection?

Ludwig

I do not use translation software, I live in America now and I have been trying to learn English. Some grammar difficulties exist. In Russian we do not have present tense "to be" words like "is, are, am". This concept *is* very hard for me to learn. By us there is also no direct articles "a, an, or the". Many times I forget to use these words.

I *am* stubborn old Russian. I speak what I think and believe, and if people do not want to hear, they do not have to listen. People may attack me if they want to, but they should remember that Russian stubbornness defeated Napoleon and Hitler.

As far as my collection, Russia *is* very dear to my heart and I love collecting Russian figures. I missed out on the K&C Russian Napoleonics but I *am* excited about their recent release of Russian figures. And I read on forum here that Andy will release more Russians!

America *is* my adopted home and I also love collecting WW2 Americans. I just wish I had more to choose from!

 

[Bayern]

I do not use translation software, I live in America now and I have been trying to learn English. Some grammar difficulties exist. In Russian we do not have present tense "to be" words like "is, are, am". This concept *is* very hard for me to learn. By us there is also no direct articles "a, an, or the". Many times I forget to use these words.

I *am* stubborn old Russian. I speak what I think and believe, and if people do not want to hear, they do not have to listen. People may attack me if they want to, but they should remember that Russian stubbornness defeated Napoleon and Hitler.

As far as my collection, Russia *is* very dear to my heart and I love collecting Russian figures. I missed out on the K&C Russian Napoleonics but I *am* excited about their recent release of Russian figures. And I read on forum here that Andy will release more Russians!

America *is* my adopted home and I also love collecting WW2 Americans. I just wish I had more to choose from!

I am liking you more already!! you are a feisty one!! Tell us Man!!

Ludwig

 

[VladimirBrezhnev]

VladimirBrezhnev; You are correct in your numbers in what is made in reference to each series. A big part of it has to do with what sells and what doesn't.
To add even more what sells quickly and what eventually sells, but at a much slower rate. A few clear examples whether right, wrong, or indifferent would be maybe
for WWII Germans outsell Americans, American WWII D-Day outsells modern day Americans, Civil War Confederates out sell Union figures.

Welcome to the forum.......new input and opinions always welcome :smile2:

I agree with you that Germans outsell Americans, and that WW2 Americans outsell modern day Americans... but I ask you... if K&C really only makes what sells, then why *are* all the Civil War Confederates retired and none of the Union? I exclude the Confederate Generals that K&C still produces.

 

[sammy719]

Vova!! Or should I say Vlad the Impaler!! You are killing me here!!

I think some of the items that you convert on translation software come out a little different then you intend too. It happens with mine as well.

However, you bring up interesting points. You will learn there are some that appreciate a good honest tell it like it is approach and those that do not. Bear with it and you will like the forum. Expect to be attacked as it is the way of many. Some can not understand even the slightest criticism of the product.

Personally, I would put myself up against anyone on this forum for the most KC product owned piece for piece. Anyone wants to go it, better get real busy on a camera. I would be surprised if there was more than a handful even close. Other then a dealer that has stock in their store that is. I have spent Thousands upon Thousands of dollars on KC's products over the years and with that I have the right to state whether I like something or not.

I agree with you that the accuracy is very important. It is a responsibility. It is not degrading to mention an issue and should not be looked at that way. If I was making this product I would appreciate the FREE feedback, advertisement, etc. I am sure really that KC corporate does. I think Andy is a smart guy that knows that.....so what...they are talking about my product and that helps to sell it..good or bad. Heck, the controversy is probably more of a seller. People love it. Look at the threads that have fighting. They have more hands on them then the knob on the door.

On KC going out of business..I do not see that happening. They are not completely reliant on direct sales for sustenance.

On the Americans as I have posted before a year is a long time on none in any lines. However from the Q/A session we see that they are in the pipeline and that is great. I can only imagine that American dealers are probably wanting them for their buyers. You know America has 37 dealers I believe. The rest of the world combined has 26 KC dealers I believe. That is something to think about.

Welcome aboard and look forward to your posts. What do you have for a collection?

Ludwig

You may want to take a look at Louis Badolatos collection before making that claim of fame there mate, last time I checked he has a decent size house full of K&C from some of the very beginning...Sammy

 

[VladimirBrezhnev]

And your point is? Andy is no goose he makes what sells and the Iwo Jima range did not sell. And you are assuming that there are no US sets on the way, and I guess you will be proved wrong.
Wayne.

My numbers referenced figures that were currently available or had been announced as of today. I did not assume anything.

 

[villagehorse]

One thing we do suffer from here in Australia, we have very little history, just a few hundred years, so we grab hold of our moments in history with both hands. Most of our important history was usually related to the the British Empire, until more recent times. To some degree USA is in the same boat (meaning a young country in terms of history). If you are making historical toy soldiers you certainly would have much more scope with Europe, China etc who go back centuries. Never done the maths so had no idea it is running 2 to 1 against the American's, so I can see your concern. Whilst I love the LH series of course, until recently there was not much in the way of Australians at all, so it is nice to have some representations at last. 15 of my collectable series are from other countries history, which I enjoy collecting and can never get enough. Hope the tide changes towards what series you would like most. Thanks for your input, cheers, Robin.

 

[Northgate Woods]

However, you bring up interesting points. You will learn there are some that appreciate a good honest tell it like it is approach and those that do not. Bear with it and you will like the forum. Expect to be attacked as it is the way of many. Some can not understand even the slightest criticism of the product.

Personally, I would put myself up against anyone on this forum for the most KC product owned piece for piece. Anyone wants to go it, better get real busy on a camera. I would be surprised if there was more than a handful even close. Other then a dealer that has stock in their store that is. I have spent Thousands upon Thousands of dollars on KC's products over the years and with that I have the right to state whether I like something or not.

Ludwig

Ludwig mate,
You really have to lighten up cobber. Nobody is attacking anybody. In a democratic debate there are always two sides to an argument.^&grin
Aussies have been and will always be a betting nation. That being said I have a small K&C collection and I will take your challenge as I am sure I could nominate ten US mates who have huge K&C collection could do also if they wanted to blow their horns constantly.
You have a good day my friend.:smile2:
Cheers Howard

 

[Mitch]

I think before we go making claims about something to think about the US may have a large market of dealers compared to the rest of the world but, that in itself does not equate to the fact that american collectors (who are not all americans but, multi national in demographic) want only to buy US troops!!! If that were the case then the Iwo Jima range would have been a souring success and things like Vietnam would be in the range and stock right now.

Also people take the forum too seriously and think its a true picture of the worlds toy soldier collectors its not IMO and, many people with large collections just want to collect. a number from what I have heard don't want the publicity that some either are not bothered about or, some seem to crave. I know of one collector not far from me that has upwards of about 20,000 figures from Britains and similar manufacturers and, recently began picking up a ''few'' items from makers like K&C figarti and CS. so, I bet their are collectors world wide that if their names were mentioned we would all go... who? and, could equally shame most of the collections that are placed on here.

I must thank those who made me laugh this morning its been a while or, since I was six in the playground, that I heard the my dad's bigger than yours speech!!!! You can only love this hobby!!!!
Mitch

 

[jazzeum]

Lately, we seem to have many threads that seem to degenerate quite quickly. Why? This is a hobby but some view as a reason for hand to hand combat. On top of that we have an attack on Howard, a good friend. Now, we also have a "new"member with alleged broken English. This seems somewhat familiar.

After what hearing what nearly happened to Rob's wife yesterday we need to keep things in perspective.

 

[Bayern]

Lately, we seem to have many threads that seem to degenerate quite quickly. Why? This is a hobby but some view as a reason for hand to hand combat. On top of that we have an attack on Howard, a good friend. Now, we also have a "new"member with alleged broken English. This seems somewhat familiar.

After what hearing what nearly happened to Rob's wife yesterday we need to keep things in perspective.

Jazz, you seem to be insinuating that I am creating alter ego's. That is not true.

However, thanks for the note on Rob. I had not heard about it or seen the post until now. I do not get many PM's.

Kind of takes the wind out of the hobby for now.

Ludwig

 

[Mitch]

broken english, is the new way to get insults and abuse over with a great excuse. I never heard anything by alter ego!! altered images were good and have some of their stuff!!!
Mitch

 

[The Military Workshop]

With regard to King & Country... my 2 to 1 number references figures in production or announced for production. Not retired figures.

On the British side: RAF (38 sets current), FoB (10 current British sets), NA (38 current British sets), EA (24 current British/Aussie sets), SOE (31 sets from production stand point matt/gloss), BR (17 current), MG (15 current sets) DD (22 current British sets and 6 Canadian sets) RTA (1 English, 1 Irish, and 1 Scottish figure), WWI (4 current British), AL (21 current sets), if I have forgotten any other British figures, forgive me. That makes 239 current British/Australian/Canadian sets being produced by K&C (not including the few MKs to go with Richard the Lionheart).

Versus:
USN (13 sets), USMC (10 sets), AF (10 sets current), TRW (8 current US dragoons), DD (13 sets current), BBA (19 sets current), RTA (18 sets current), and CW (33 sets current).
This makes a total of 114 American figures.

If my math correct, almost 2.1 British/Australian/Canadian figures for every American figure made.

Vladimir,
I think your method of counting is not a good method. So just my comments :

RAF 38 sets and US AF 10 sets strongly suggests to me RAF sells much better than US AF.

FOB is a series that has been mainly early war so since USA did not join until DEC 1941 no surprise not in it.

NA is a major series so of course there will be plenty of British in it. I note Ludwig is a big fan of this series.

EA - not too much North Africa action by the USA.

SOE seems to be 18 figures released in matt and gloss not 31. Again no USA action here.

BR covered below.

MG clearly a British series to represent Arnhem.

RTA - I note you count three figures towards the British here !! That would not be the view of non American collectors.

WWI in general not too much action by the USA and none in the desert.

You count the BR's but not the 10 AR's still available.

As a dealer the way I look at it is :

American Revolution - collectors of this series will usually buy both British and American.

Alamo - how can you have Alamo without the Mexicans ? The Mexicans are not much use to anybody but Alamo collectors so whilst not American they are clearly designed for American collectors.

The Real West - same as for the Alamo with the Indians as they are designed to go with the US cavalry. I consider the Indians as American figures.

The USN and USMC are very much a niche series clearly aimed at American collectors.

When you look at the American figures (ie in WWII) and specific series (Amer Rev, ACW, TRW, RTA, USMC, USN)
I don't think USA collectors have a shortage of choice. Plus we do know more are planned.

Just my thoughts.

Brett