Copywrite....toy soldiers ? (1 Viewer)

[TomB]

Anyone know anything about copy write ?...Disney toys are copy write..also heaps of toys based on movie hero's....surely it must be impossible to have copy write on all the military armies of the world.... only one or two would be able to produce model soldiers......just curious......TomB

 

[jules118]

Anyone know anything about copy write ?...Disney toys are copy write..also heaps of toys based on movie hero's....surely it must be impossible to have copy write on all the military armies of the world.... only one or two would be able to produce model soldiers......just curious......TomB

Different countries have different copyright legislation but there are many similarities in the way copyright works here in Australia and the US and UK. The underlying principles are the same. Copyright, along with things like patents and trademark protection (which applies to Disney characters) forms part of a range of legislative protections designed to protect Intellectual Property (IP). The thing to remember with copyright is that it does not protect an idea, only the way the idea has been expressed. So, whilst copyright may exist on, for example a ballistic helmet or item of uniform, it means that those items may not be reproduced (i.e. copied) without the appropriate license or permission. Creating a model figure is not making a helmet that is a copy of the other helmet, so the copyright protections do not apply. The model figure is the expression of an idea for a model that is in a certain pose, wearing a certain uniform and carrying specific items of equipment. It is a miniature model, not a helmet etc.

Now the thing to remember is that once the idea has been expressed in the form of that model, it IS subject to copyright protection. The key phrase to remember is that copyright does not protect an idea (that's one of the reasons patent laws exist), only the EXPRESSION OF THE IDEA. So, if K&C produced a figure that I liked, I could not buy one, create a mold and cast my own because then I am reproducing K&C's expression of an idea (the model figure in a specific pose wearing specific clothing, equipment etc) and would therefore be infringing on K&C's copyright.

Trademark protection as used by Warner Bros, Disney etc for the protection of their characters is a different form of IP protection to copyright but is often used in conjunction with copyright to restrict abuse of the owners Intellectual Property.

Hope that clarifies things a little,

Jules

 

[TomB]

Different countries have different copyright legislation but there are many similarities in the way copyright works here in Australia and the US and UK. The underlying principles are the same. Copyright, along with things like patents and trademark protection (which applies to Disney characters) forms part of a range of legislative protections designed to protect Intellectual Property (IP). The thing to remember with copyright is that it does not protect an idea, only the way the idea has been expressed. So, whilst copyright may exist on, for example a ballistic helmet or item of uniform, it means that those items may not be reproduced (i.e. copied) without the appropriate license or permission. Creating a model figure is not making a helmet that is a copy of the other helmet, so the copyright protections do not apply. The model figure is the expression of an idea for a model that is in a certain pose, wearing a certain uniform and carrying specific items of equipment. It is a miniature model, not a helmet etc.

Now the thing to remember is that once the idea has been expressed in the form of that model, it IS subject to copyright protection. The key phrase to remember is that copyright does not protect an idea (that's one of the reasons patent laws exist), only the EXPRESSION OF THE IDEA. So, if K&C produced a figure that I liked, I could not buy one, create a mold and cast my own because then I am reproducing K&C's expression of an idea (the model figure in a specific pose wearing specific clothing, equipment etc) and would therefore be infringing on K&C's copyright.

Trademark protection as used by Warner Bros, Disney etc for the protection of their characters is a different form of IP protection to copyright but is often used in conjunction with copyright to restrict abuse of the owners Intellectual Property.

Hope that clarifies things a little,

Jules

Thanks for the reply....appreciated.....would like to clarify a point if I may......If I were to change the appearance slightly ... ie..uniform..wpn...helmet......it would look like the same as the original... But....slightly different ?.......here is the drum (story,,fact,,etc though I think you would know what drum means )......I am thinking of doing a comic hero of the 1930's ...loved the comic when I was a kid,,,along with the Phantom who is still going strong.( read the comic's in the 40's )...Have no intention of selling....but....would donate figs to charity to raffle ...would this be Okay ?....actually if I did fig as a cartoon figure would that be Ok ? ( Disney may have done this in the 40's but it aint one of their 's).....thank you...Tom

 

[jules118]

Thanks for the reply....appreciated.....would like to clarify a point if I may......If I were to change the appearance slightly ... ie..uniform..wpn...helmet......it would look like the same as the original... But....slightly different ?.......here is the drum (story,,fact,,etc though I think you would know what drum means )......I am thinking of doing a comic hero of the 1930's ...loved the comic when I was a kid,,,along with the Phantom who is still going strong.( read the comic's in the 40's )...Have no intention of selling....but....would donate figs to charity to raffle ...would this be Okay ?....actually if I did fig as a cartoon figure would that be Ok ? ( Disney may have done this in the 40's but it aint one of their 's).....thank you...Tom

Not sure, my gut feeling is that there may be some issues. First thing to determine is what the IP status of the character is, i.e. is it still covered by trademark or copyright protection? If it is then you need to proceed with caution (get a license from the owner to produce or abandon the idea). There's a myth that exists within some areas of the creative industries that one can make X number of changes (sometimes believed to be 10%) to the original work and it is somehow OK. This is incorrect. It is the similarities between the original and the contested work that will be looked at to determine whether there has been a violation. Not any number of changes or percentage, but how much of the original can be seen in the alleged copy and what are the similarities? This could be an issue for you when creating a figure based on a cartoon/comic book character. I'd suggest that you contact the Australian Copyright Council which is a Federal Government funded not for profit whose purpose is to provide advice on matters of IP. They have a free advisory service which could give you more authoritative advice. Go to www.copyright.org.au Hope that helps and let us know how you go.

jules

 

[jazzeum]

If you have an idea in mind or a creation in which you would like to claim IP protection, you should consult an attorney experienced in trademark and copy right law. Although I am an attorney who has some experience in trademark law, when I have a question I go to one of the trademark attorneys in the IP Department.

 

[jules118]

If you have an idea in mind or a creation in which you would like to claim IP protection, you should consult an attorney experienced in trademark and copy right law. Although I am an attorney who has some experience in trademark law, when I have a question I go to one of the trademark attorneys in the IP Department.

I agree, get good advice, not hearsay. Hence my suggestion to seek advice from the Copyright Council, which is funded by the Australian Commonwealth Government to educate about IP. One of it's services is to provide an initial legal opinion, from one of the IP lawyers on staff, for free. Not sure if the US has a similar body, but here in Australia it's a brilliant service that our Federal government provides. Tom would do well to direct his question to them as they will give him some clear guidance on how to proceed. I'm not a lawyer/attorney but do specialise in copyright/IP protection in my role as lecturer in the media department at one of our largest colleges here in Perth.


jules

 

[jazzeum]

Jules,

I know just enough to make me dangerous. However, I was impressed by your knowledge and thought you gave him some good advise. As far as I know we have no equivalent of the Cooyright Council in the USA, unless the US Patent and Trademark Office has something like that.

Brad

 

[TomB]

If you have an idea in mind or a creation in which you would like to claim IP protection, you should consult an attorney experienced in trademark and copy right law. Although I am an attorney who has some experience in trademark law, when I have a question I go to one of the trademark attorneys in the IP Department.

Thanks for the reply.....I am not interested in IP.. I am more interested I aint upsetting some-one's else-ers......the stuff I make up and donate is not a direct copy of anything ( I aint good enough to copy 100% ) but like everybody else... I get idea' from other works I see.....thanks for the advice......Tom

 

[TomB]

If you have an idea in mind or a creation in which you would like to claim IP protection, you should consult an attorney experienced in trademark and copy right law. Although I am an attorney who has some experience in trademark law, when I have a question I go to one of the trademark attorneys in the IP Department.

Thanks for the reply.....I am not interested in IP.. I am more interested I aint upsetting some-one's else-ers......the stuff I make up and donate is not a direct copy of anything ( I aint good enough to copy 100% ) but like everybody else... I get idea' from other works I see.....thanks for the advice......Tom

 

[TomB]

Not sure, my gut feeling is that there may be some issues. First thing to determine is what the IP status of the character is, i.e. is it still covered by trademark or copyright protection? If it is then you need to proceed with caution (get a license from the owner to produce or abandon the idea). There's a myth that exists within some areas of the creative industries that one can make X number of changes (sometimes believed to be 10%) to the original work and it is somehow OK. This is incorrect. It is the similarities between the original and the contested work that will be looked at to determine whether there has been a violation. Not any number of changes or percentage, but how much of the original can be seen in the alleged copy and what are the similarities? This could be an issue for you when creating a figure based on a cartoon/comic book character. I'd suggest that you contact the Australian Copyright Council which is a Federal Government funded not for profit whose purpose is to provide advice on matters of IP. They have a free advisory service which could give you more authoritative advice. Go to www.copyright.org.au Hope that helps and let us know how you go.

jules

Jules.....had look at Aust site......very much like your opinion......seems to be a catch 22 ..ref copyright....for example....take any 20 or so German ww2 toy soldiers from different firms.....line them all up together.....some will look very similar to each other....all have the same uniform...same wpns,,same paint colour,,,etc and all.. are called.... German Soldiers......Donald Duck ...sample only,,,,,we all know is a Disney creation ....take x amount of ducks...line them up,,any one similar to DD and called Donald would be likely to draw copyright attention ....they are all ducks...all named Donald......the soldiers..all alike in every detail...all named German Soldiers.....have I missed something somewhere ?....... not to matter...no sweat ....anyway it was a good subject to inquire about.. bit...more wiser now than before.....thanks ...Tom

 

[GICOP]

Ref :- USMC - Not sure if this applies to Toy Soldiers, maybe the EGA part

http://www.marines.mil/unit/divpa/tmlo/Pages/commercial.aspx

Cheers

Martyn

 

[TomB]

Ref :- USMC - Not sure if this applies to Toy Soldiers, maybe the EGA part

http://www.marines.mil/unit/divpa/tmlo/Pages/commercial.aspx

Cheers

Martyn

Thanks Martyn.....good point....the Marine Corp Flag..etc...is flashed around willy nilly on toy soldiers sites by all concerned....all toy soldiers appear in the same uniforms...have the same equipt,,etc...bit of a worry eh !......it could be a copyright mess.....Tom...PS...whata -bout the North American P51 Mustang...which the RAAF flew in Korea in the 50's...Tiger Tanks..etc...the list is endless

 

[jazzeum]

The difference is that the USMC has statutory protection.

I would doubt the Tiger or Mustang have any protection. Also bear in mind that copyright protection has a sunset. Trademarks never do, as long are you using them or can show use. Otherwise they are vulnerable to attack.

 

[TomB]

The difference is that the USMC has statutory protection.

I would doubt the Tiger or Mustang have any protection. Also bear in mind that copyright protection has a sunset. Trademarks never do, as long are you using them or can show use. Otherwise they are vulnerable to attack.

jazzeum.....thanks for that.....pardon my ignorance ...what is a Sunset....thank you...Tom

 

[jazzeum]

Sorry for being technical. It means that a copyright will have a termination period. For example, in the EU sound recordings have copyright protection for 50 years and then they are in the public domain, available to anyone to copy, which happens.

 

[TomB]

Sorry for being technical. It means that a copyright will have a termination period. For example, in the EU sound recordings have copyright protection for 50 years and then they are in the public domain, available to anyone to copy, which happens.

jazzeum......Thanks......anyway I have found out what I want to know a few minutes ago...... I was interested in copyright because the comic hero I was interested in ...Buck Rodgers,,1929 comic hero..unknown to me... .was started up all over again in toys and TV some yrs ago.....the original BR was not portrayed as such... but as some new version that is nothing like the 1929 guy,,,but I would most likely be in the poo if I was to make figures ar-la the 1929 BR......disappointed ..but thats life......thanks again ...Tom

 

[TomB]

Britains did a Buck Rogers set; Google Image "Britains Buck Rogers" gives a selection of pictures of it. And there's a bunch of related stuff here: http://www.antiquetrader.com/antiqu...ions/vintage_buck_rogers_space_toy_collection

Mike...I stuffed up...meant to reply to your post and started a new thingo......Many thanks for the info on "Britions BR"...should have guessed Britions would have worked on it...never saw the toys when I was a kid... would have loved them ...never see anything in this country...even now.....cant even get basic craft stuff without having to send oversea...even the bloody Kangaroo's are made in China.......thanks again...tomB

 

[theBaron]

...whata -bout the North American P51 Mustang...which the RAAF flew in Korea in the 50's...Tiger Tanks..etc...the list is endless

The Tiger and the Mustang probably do not have copyright protection now, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that they could be trademarked in the future. Look at Lockheed/Martin's efforts a couple of years ago to copyright aircraft that their ancestor firms built during the war, in an effort to force model companies and others using the images to pay royalties. It's possible that the successor firms to those that built the Tiger (would that be Porsche?) and the Mustang (North American Aviation is now part of Boeing) could try to do the same thing.

Prost!
Brad

 

[TomB]

The Tiger and the Mustang probably do not have copyright protection now, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that they could be trademarked in the future. Look at Lockheed/Martin's efforts a couple of years ago to copyright aircraft that their ancestor firms built during the war, in an effort to force model companies and others using the images to pay royalties. It's possible that the successor firms to those that built the Tiger (would that be Porsche?) and the Mustang (North American Aviation is now part of Boeing) could try to do the same thing.

Prost!
Brad

Hi..nothing is impossible these days....Toy Soldiers have had a good run....lets hope it continues....Porsche designed tanks..that I know...but they were over engineered and were buggers to repair in the field....the Yanks and the Ruski's had simple traction and rarely broke down.....tar for the info..Tom