Royal Artillery swagger stick query? (1 Viewer)

[Hazebrouck]

Currently working on an old Rose Miniatures figure (No.221) described as Gunnner Royal Artillery No.1 dress. I think that this uniform is from the 1960/70/80's era.

Just a query regarding the swagger stick- what colour should the tassel be painted? (seen from the rear of the figure).

I have a feeling it should be red and it is the only detail missing from the painting guide.

Any ex-gunners out there?

Scott

 

[johnnybach]

I don't think your Gunner is holding a Swagger Stick at all there Scott. It's far too thick for that item, which was (supposedly) ornamental in appearance. I always thought that those holding them looked rather affected and a bit silly.

More likely, it's a Gunner's Stick - with an Ivory or Silver mounted knob at the end, which was more like a walking stick in size and thickness. This was used by Gunners to measure the distance between gun placings in the field - and many consider it the origin of the pace-stick - as still used by RSM's in the British Army today. As to the colour of any additions to it - sorry chum - can't help you there. But I doubt if it is a swagger stick at all. johnnybach

PS - I wasn't a gunner - so maybe Obee might know - he was!

 

[Obee]

Scott,

I'm an ex-gunner (RAA) and the only swaggersticks I've seen in the Aussie Army were used by the RSM's and similar to Infantry, and much longer that the one in the figure depicted.

But, the sick does look similar to a rammer from a 25 pounder field gun, and in my old Regiment one was used on ceremonial parades by the BSM.

As the figure is said to be 1960's - 80's those guns were still in use (I served on them on OZ in the early 70's) and so it could be a possibility?

The tassel is a mystery to me, but the colours of the RA are red & blue, so you wouldn't be wrong with that.

My suggestion is to contact John Eden in UK, he has the ROSE MINIATURE moulds and is still selling them, so explain your need for the colours and if he has the cards that come with the kits, he should be able to oblige. http://www.johnedenstudios.com/ is the website, with a contact form.

By the way, the blue of the coat should be much darker so serch for images of RA and see what I mean.

John

 

[johnnybach]

Scott,

I'm an ex-gunner (RAA) and the only swaggersticks I've seen in the Aussie Army were used by the RSM's and similar to Infantry, and much longer that the one in the figure depicted.



By the way, the blue of the coat should be much darker so serch for images of RA and see what I mean.

John

Scott - this pic may help for colour of uniform for RA in Number One Dress Uniform. Still worn for special occasions when firing salutes. This one at Edinburgh castle was taken this year. (Note the female gunner nearest). I use Humbrol - so mix Oxford Blue and Black to get the colour - which after gloss varnishing looks almost black. It's really a Dark Navy Blue.

 

[Hazebrouck]

Thanks both Johns.

I agree it is on the thick side for a swagger stick and looks more like a baton. You might be right with the pacing stick JohnB as it is one of those kits Rose manufactured that could be painted to represent two regiments- the other one being a subaltern in the Royal Fusiliers. Interestingly the painting instructions list the swagger stick as a 'cane' for the same figure. Go figure.

I might just paint the tassels red.

I'm aware the blue is lighter than oxford blue, it is Revell Matt 56 Sea Blue. I am trying something a little different on this figure. I painted a Napoleonic Rifles figure a while back and the Rifle Green being almost black seemed to absorb a lot of the detail. With this figure, which has some nice sculpting around the pockets and seams, the darker blue doesn't give you much chance to shade or outline these details. So I am going to try something I have been using on my 1/35 figures, that is a wash with Vallejo Oxford Blue which I hope will outline some of the details and darken the blue overall.

If it works then good and if it doesn't then I'll just strip the paint off the figure and try again. Just trying to move it away slightly from a traditional glossy painting style.

Scott

 

[Napoleon1er]

I have next to me the official British Army drill manual, unabridged. It says that canes and whips can be bought from the QM or made custom within reasonable limitations. Pace sticks are much longer than what you have, and though they do technically originate in the RA, what you have is most likely a thickly sculpted cane ("swagger stick").
Here is the official regulation:
"Malacca type wood Cane with silver
ball boss, bearing Regimental badge,
and silver tip."
There is no mention of a knot, but the regulation sword knot is listed for officers as GOLD, and nothing else for any regiment.

In conclusion, if you want a regulation cane, the finials should be silver, and the knot gold.

Hope that helps,
Sandor

 

[Martin Tabony]

The only tassled cane I've seen is a Drum Majors short undress cane. Still digging though.

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

I have been thinking back to the 1960's - and what the significance of that short stick could be. My mind drifted back to a visit our unit had by the old Princess Royal ( before Princess Anne got the job!).

We were to put on a Quarter Guard for the occasion - and a few dozen of our number were chosen - and duly practiced all of the necessry drill for the occassion. Eventually the guard were chosen - and we paraded. A so-called "Stick Orderly " was selected from those who turned out, by our RSM (we called him the Stick-Man) - who was the best turned out soldier on parade. He was excused the actual guard - but stayed on-duty as a reserve - and ran any errands required. He carried a short "cane" - which was a thirty inch stick (rather like a WO2's stick - with a silver top ( as Royal Signals, ours had a"Jimmy" on it), to denote his status as stick orderly.

In view of the fact that your RA soldier is wearing his best blues (Number 1 Dress) - I'm wondering if he in fact is the "Stick man" for some special occasion - or parade? Just a thought - maybe Martyn can remember something similar in his outfit - they do special occasion parades lots of the time.

I have looked around for any pics - but regretably - this one is all I could come up with! jb

 

[Martin Tabony]

An interesting idea JB. We had the equivalent of a "stickman" but didn't use the term. The cushiest job was "Stable Guard"

Martin

 

[beating retreat]

Currently working on an old Rose Miniatures figure (No.221) described as Gunnner Royal Artillery No.1 dress. I think that this uniform is from the 1960/70/80's era.

Just a query regarding the swagger stick- what colour should the tassel be painted? (seen from the rear of the figure).

I have a feeling it should be red and it is the only detail missing from the painting guide.

Any ex-gunners out there?

Scott

Hi Scott

Looking close at your figure it looks to me like a signal flag and the flag bit is furled up in the soldiers hand, now I am not 100% sure but I think that artillery pieces may have had signal flags when guns were on range practice, Just my thoughts

Regards John

 

[Hazebrouck]

Thanks for all the suggestions gents. I have finished painting and opted to paint the tassels red in the absence of anything definitive.

A couple of washes with a dark blue have definitely darkened the uniform up. Possibly not as dark as the tunic and pants would appear in reality. The figure looks OK in the flesh!

Scott