Andy! I´m not happy! (1 Viewer)

I completely disagree members use the forum to express all of their concerns be they positive or negative. It is a forum based on all things toy soldiers and that includes when things are bad. Hobby or not things are not always good and, we should respect peoples expressions as they are how they feel often at the time. Plenty of room for all and those who are not interested can always refrain from comment than be expected, or asked to refrain from participating.

Thats not having a dig just I like reading all thoughts and comments no matter what. Its often from some of the negative comments or, whats seen as moaning that you get some of the more truthful comments on products etc. Its also where manufacturers can enhance future products in paint style etc quality detail from people with knowledge on the subjects y
Mitch

I agree, and if members have so much to complain about it would be much easier for them to refrain
From participating. Too easy........{sm2}
 
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I hope you do get the items you are looking for.

Just a minor point but K&C is not the only brand that has some type of special figures. John Jenkins has
made some figures that are only available from JJDUK and there have been a number of Britains items
only available as specials from certain dealers.

For the benefit of Shyguy I did ask K&C, as a dealer and Club Member, if I could get a special figure and was turned
down. No idea what happened with other dealers but that is what happened in my case.

I think Jack summed it up well when he said :

To demand that Andy be 'fair' and make the show figure available to everyone means, both in theory and practice, that there is no longer a show figure. One more little charming tradition can then disappear in the name of pretending that if we have enough rules life can be made fair.

Brett

After reading all of the posts on or about this, I have to say that final paragraph in the above quote sums it up perfectly. I hope K&C continues with the exclusive line of 'show figures etc. Mass produced figures are great, but ones that you can only get certain places just add to the uniqueness of individual collections.
 
Since the mods often take heat from both sides of issues...I think they do a good job of remaining objective!

Good luck filling any of those vacancies if the measure of how well you do your job is the extent to which everyone complains about you!{sm4}{sm4}
 
As far as I'm concerned, the Mods do a pretty good job. If anyone thinks they are biased, then you don't know the history of how they got to be moderators.

Terry
 
The problem is that the moderators aren' t objective and they censor those who aren' t considered like their friends...

I have been on this forum for several years and I can honestly say the moderators do an excellent job. They seem pretty impartial to me and will delete people from both sides of an argument if they go too far. To quote another forum member "Mods Rule".

Brett
 
I am sorry but i do not agree with your views Poppo that the moderators are biased and one eyed. I think they do an excellent job in being impartial and they penalise people no matter what side of the fence they sit on.

As for the show figures and or tent being available to everyone, i think by doing this it will take the uniqueness away from collectors getting a figure or special item at a show or event. I can understand why collectors can be disappointed in missing out on these figures or items but i think K&C has tried to do it's best by having some of these figures available on their website.

Tom
 
I am sorry for the chap who started this thread with what he saw as a legitimate gripe and has had it turned into a bit of a circus. How anyone can say the mods are not biased is strange unless they are garnering favour against future infractions or moderation??. Jack has in the last few weeks posted many comments to members on the bias that we all show in many forms on here. If this is true then mods are no different even in their dealings on here. many of the people now singing the praises of these unbiased individuals and showing support for these few unbiased indiaviduals who have, amazingly, beaten the odds against the comments jack put were openly agreeing with those comments he mentioned.

How can you have it both ways?

Of course mods are biased just like policemen, judges et al are biased you don't put on uniform or gain a label like ''mod'' or similar and lose your held beliefs, likes dislikes etc. I have even seen mods moderate mods on here so, they do what they have to do. Those overmoderated or moderated will see it as bias in their view those who think others should be more moderated will see it as bias in their view and, then there are those who have stated they just don't care.

When is dispatches!!!!!!!
Mitch
 
First and foremost we are consumers. The initial poster has every right to air his grievances about being unable to obtain that which he most desires having spent, I imagine, thousands of kroner on the exact same line this figure is from. Why should he have to spend another $250 on figures he probably doesn't want (the likelihood is he already has all the figures he wants from this range)?

I only collect the ALH line from K&C. I'm not at all interested in anything else they do at the moment. If the situation had arisen whereby it was an ALH figure on offer I would be bally angry too.

Now the figure is being held to ransom, although this is something I intend to do with William Britains early AZW range. However, this is somewhat different because these sets were available to everyone at the time of their initial release without having to spend money on something else in order to obtain them.

If this offer is to be made again I think the figure should not be from any current line, a one-off, or maybe even the precursor to something new.
 
Mitch,
There are clearly two sides to this argument about show or special figures. Just because the majority do not agree with your viewpoint does not turn the thread "into a bit of a circus".

You, and the Templar and Ishandlwana, are on the side that believes that all figures/items made by K&C (and presumably other brands also) should be available to all and you have stated that " Show figures are now not show figures anymore". Judging by the responses in this thread the majority do not have a problem with such figures. However in general the majority may also represent those who have been to K&C events where such figures were available and they appreciated they got something unique. Others may not actually care much as the figures may not have been of much interest to them.

So should we take this futher and not have special figures that are unique to say the French dealer who produced Joan of Arc or Kings X with some of their figures for spending a certain amount ? I guess the next time K&C has a production that did not work out they should just destroy the whole lot rather than give some to dealers as part of a promotion (ie. the larger landing craft). Cancel the blue tent also as those who did not get one would rather nobody have one if it means they miss out. How about K&C be fair and re-run all the old items because some collectors have missed them also ? Lets cancel all limited editions and make everything available for all time so that there are no "retirements" so everybody has the time to make up their time when to buy. As a dealer I was not that excited about the WWII Aussie digger being made a Club figure so I think K&C should shut down the Club to satisfy my wishes as a dealer. Etc etc.

Either way K&C has been producing such unique figures for years and there have not been many of them. Incidentally there was one such Lighthorse figure and that was the first one produced in 2009, CC38, and it was originally going to be Club Figure 19.

As we know Andy of K&C reads this forum and perhaps his recent change with the Chicago figure was a response to previous comments. Clearly some feel he has not gone far enough. Either way if you are a collector who is still not satisfied then it would probably be a good idea to address K&C directly.

Regarding comments about the bias of moderators I will have to be honest. They have clearly been very biased when deleting or issuing infractions to me. On all other occasions when doing the same to others I think they have been incredibly wise and fair{sm4}.

Regards
Brett
 
It's impossible to please everyone all of the time, a sad fact of life. What made me 'pipe up' was the sheer scale of the range. I had no idea, until I viewed photos on here, of the vastness of the Crusader range. To have religiously (no pun intended) collected that many figures only to discover there is one within reach but at an exhorbitant fee must be a real kick in the teeth. There is no 'chase' involved on this one, merely a ransom.

As for not giving a 'hoots' to the tune of two, I think there may have been a more vociferous outpouring had the figure been clad in grey and been of a fascist persuassion.

C'est la vie. The medicated swallowers of Fascism indeed!
 
One of these new figures in discussion just sold for $155.00 on E-Bay. So if it was obtained after buying $250.00
Worth of K&C product.....That purchase actually dropped down to about $158.00 once seller fees are factored in.
A nice little deal. Either way everything makes its way to the auction site sooner or later. A part of this and any other
Hobby where collectibles are concerned. What if 4 Hospitaler knights were acquired after spending $1000.00 with
K&C. That would allow $600.00 to be made on show figures at auction.
Now I will just say I am wrong and disagree with everything I stated here so someone else doesn't have to.
Cheers......
Templar, I hope you get the items you are after. !!!
 
You were only allowed one per customer after spending $250 so, if you spent $1000 you still would only get one hospitalier figure!!
Mitch

One of these new figures in discussion just sold for $155.00 on E-Bay. So if it was obtained after buying $250.00
Worth of K&C product.....That purchase actually dropped down to about $158.00 once seller fees are factored in.
A nice little deal. Either way everything makes its way to the auction site sooner or later. A part of this and any other
Hobby where collectibles are concerned. What if 4 Hospitaler knights were acquired after spending $1000.00 with
K&C. That would allow $600.00 to be made on show figures at auction.
Now I will just say I am wrong and disagree with everything I stated here so someone else doesn't have to.
Cheers......
 
Not if you brought your wife and 2 kids. !!! {eek3} {sm3} {sm4}

This is so unjust - I don't have two kids. I'm not sure if I can blame Andy and maintain my self respect, but I'm sure he's to blame somehow!{sm4}
 
This is so unjust - I don't have two kids. I'm not sure if I can blame Andy and maintain my self respect, but I'm sure he's to blame somehow!{sm4}

My wife would be happy to help me with this. For a price.........
 
Brett...

This thread started about something completely different to what it turned into and, from someone making a comment about a figures availability its focused on the unbiased nature of the mods. Thats why I think it turned into a circus not the content of the original subject.

Again, we have spoken about show figures and the main reasons why I think its a great idea that it has been extended to the wider group of K&C club members and, in terms of this figure its not a show figure its a collectors figure.

The benefits I saw of that far outweigh the down sides of what is being said and, I hope that its a regular thing that K&C does and is not just a one off.

Now some have taken that direction others have not for a variety of reasons including the speculators who will be the losers at the end of the day through this (but, I care not a jot for them) I have said all along in many different threads on this topic I respect K&C for at least trying address an issue that lots had spoken about.

Its rather obvious any change in the exclusivity of figures will annoy some but, maybe I am a little less selfish or whatever one wants to describe it as that if I went to a show (not talking about figures for dinners) and, a figure was available that I would feel aggrieved if a few hundred collectors had it around the world. How can that either spoil the figure or, exclusivity of it? you can seemingly buy many multiples of these figures anyway by looking at the sales of such things on e-bay so, that is what it seems to be addressing. The money seems better to go to K&C than speculators and, thats what K&C has done. They are a business not a charity some seem to have forgotten.
Mitch

Mitch,
So did the thread became a circus because you think the Mods are biased and several expressed the opinion they were not or simply because the thread got off track once Mods bias was mentioned ? Either way it
appears it only became a circus because it has not gone the way you wanted.

A minor point but the only special / show figure I am aware of that can be bought in multiples was the
the 2012 Texas Show figure. I think we have all seen your repeated references to those Texas figure
sales on Ebay recently and can expect more across many more threads (in my view they are a different
scenario to what happened with the Stukas). Do not let this one exception cloud the reality of what
happens with these special figures. With all the other events I am aware of each attendeee would receive only one figure and possibly extras if family members attended (I have commented before on what happens in
Brisbane). This is what makes those figures rare and hence more valauble on Ebay.

I can appreciate both sides of the argument and do sympathise with The Templar and Ishandlwana's
view as they are enthusiastic collectors of particular series. However such figures have been a
tradition for several years and at the end of the day it is K&C's decesion as to how they operate their
business. Whilst you support the idea of extending their availability via a $250 purchase by a Club
member there are those not satisfied with this and I guess they prefer the figures should be available
to all at a normal price.

Ishandlwana commented "I think there may have been a more vociferous outpouring had the figure been clad in grey and been of a fascist persuassion". The previous special figure (ie West Coast Show/Australian Visit
2012 was a Nazi figure and there was no vociferous outpouring about it on this forum. I have no idea but
I am guessing there was less opportunity for LAH collectors to obtain that figure than there has been
for Medieval collectors to obtain the recent Chicago figure.

Regards
Brett
 
Mitch,
So did the thread became a circus because you think the Mods are biased and several expressed the opinion they were not or simply because the thread got off track once Mods bias was mentioned ? Either way it
appears it only became a circus because it has not gone the way you wanted.

A minor point but the only special / show figure I am aware of that can be bought in multiples was the
the 2012 Texas Show figure. I think we have all seen your repeated references to those Texas figure
sales on Ebay recently and can expect more across many more threads (in my view they are a different
scenario to what happened with the Stukas). Do not let this one exception cloud the reality of what
happens with these special figures. With all the other events I am aware of each attendeee would receive only one figure and possibly extras if family members attended (I have commented before on what happens in
Brisbane). This is what makes those figures rare and hence more valauble on Ebay.

I can appreciate both sides of the argument and do sympathise with The Templar and Ishandlwana's
view as they are enthusiastic collectors of particular series. However such figures have been a
tradition for several years and at the end of the day it is K&C's decesion as to how they operate their
business. Whilst you support the idea of extending their availability via a $250 purchase by a Club
member there are those not satisfied with this and I guess they prefer the figures should be available
to all at a normal price.

Ishandlwana commented "I think there may have been a more vociferous outpouring had the figure been clad in grey and been of a fascist persuassion". The previous special figure (ie West Coast Show/Australian Visit
2012 was a Nazi figure and there was no vociferous outpouring about it on this forum. I have no idea but
I am guessing there was less opportunity for LAH collectors to obtain that figure than there has been
for Medieval collectors to obtain the recent Chicago figure.

Regards
Brett

I agree Brett. I missed out on the Westcoaster in 2012 for personal reasons, thus I did not get the show figure. As a vociferous and unapologetic collector of all things that are fascist and clad in gray I feel like I missed out. However, I did not feel the need to post on the forum that this turn of events was somehow unfair. I didn’t make it to the show and therefore I didn’t get the figure. I have said many times that I enjoy the exclusivity of these types of figures and exclusiveness cuts both ways, sometimes I am in, sometimes I am out. I hope that K&C continues with these types of show figures, because getting them is actually one of the highlight of the shows I attend.
 
Gentle Friends,

There are portions of this discussion that are dangerously close to beating a dead horse. Clearly, members who have strong opinions will not change them in spite of the fact others hold equally strong, but different, opinions. Please respect the fact that we are a diverse population with a variety of perceptions and observations. Having the last word in an endless debate does not benefit anyone nor does it mean your opinion prevails or is superior to the opinions of others. Please respectfully make your points and then move on.

Thanks!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat
 
Mitch and PA have kept this fight going long enough...they are removed from this thread.
 

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