My favorite commanders (1 Viewer)

[Rob]

So that means Monty won a wonderful victory at Arnhem then!!!!

 

[damian]

Werent the Americans supposed to break through at Eindhoven and link up with the brave and resourceful and dashing British paras

 

[Rob]

With all respect I think you might have been reading a bit of revisionist history ala Stephen Ambrose.

This quote about the American Expeditionary Force comes from Wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_United_States_in_World_War_I): “The high casualty rate sustained at a time when Allied casualty rates were lighter can be attributed to Pershing's insistence on doing things his way and not incorporating the latest field tested tactics that were proving successful to other Allied commanders on the ground”. I know Wikipedia is not a particularly great source, however that’s what I could dig up quickly. I do not own many books on US involvement in WW1, but I have read a lot from the library and watched some television shows (apparently not the one Mitch saw!) that consistently regard the American expeditionary force as quite tactically deficient and that they won many of their battles by force of numbers alone. The individual U.S. soldiers should be commended for their impressive aggressiveness and élan, however its commanders should have been a bit smarter with the lives of their men.

Early on Pershing’s conception of stormtrooper tactics was a bit primitive: snipe at the enemy with your rifles to pin him down, then charge right at him, and finally hopefully bayonet him to death. Like I said, more or less 1914 human wave tactics minus hiding in the trench beforehand. American casualty rates in Belleau Woods and Argonne were scarcely better than the British in the Somme, in spite of the fact the German army was in retreat and a shadow of its former strength during those battles. The Americans could have and should have followed the tactics practiced by the Canadians which made them the best shock army in the world at that time.

And from my comments above you'll know I agree that Haig was a complete idiot who should have been sacked in favour of someone more competent like Currie. But Haig was certainly not the only British, French or Commonwealth general! Lower ranking generals were getting the picture hence the stunning combined Brit/Canadian/Australian/French success of the Amiens and subsequent offensives. And even Haig didn’t do a bad job coordinating the hundred days offensive which ended the war; he was also becoming more cautious with his troop’s lives near the end so I wouldn’t say he learned absolutely nothing. Surely you do not think America was single-handedly winning the victories of the last 100 days, or even that it carried the majority of the weight of these final offensives? I think that credit would go to Canada, as the French would say "Les cent jours du Canada" (Canada's Hundred Days).

The last hundred days are often overlooked when people talk of Haig.He is usually remembered for the Somme disaster which is still to this day a running sore in my country's memory.However there is no doubt that stubborn as he may have been at the Somme, Haig learned and adapted for the final push.(British artillery tactics also i believe played a large roll in this).I think the days of believing all generals were callous murderers are behind us now,whilst he was no angel of course i do not think he always gets a fair go in History as it were.

It is also often forgotten that he did a huge amount for veterans after ww1 and set up the Haig fund,that went on to be the famous Poppy day we have today.

Rob

 

[Rob]

Werent the Americans supposed to break through at Eindhoven and link up with the brave and resourceful and dashing British paras

Didn't quite work out like that did it!.Hey,what we need is Mel Gibson to make an updated version of 'A bridge too far',in which William Wallace drives off both the Germans and us nasty old Brits to claim the bridge for Scotland and Freeeeeeeeeedom!!

Rob

 

[damian]

I must say the most accurate First World War drama is BalckAdder. He shows just how great teh staff offciers were

 

[Rob]

Wonderful series,very poignant ending too.

Rob

 

[OzDigger]

The source of reference material is very important because authors and publishers like to actually make money from their books. Consequently they invariably exagerate the contribution of their own country and its servicemen.

Those members interested in Military History should make an effort to read some books by authors from countries other than their own. For example if more Americans read books such as "The Lonely Leader- Monty 1944-45" by Alistair Horne they would gain a better appreciation of that Montgomery guy. Of course said reader is unlikely to change their opinion, but they may have a better understanding

 

[Louis Badolato]

Or they could read this forum, and discuss the issue with knowledgeable chaps like our friend Kevin (Panda1gen) who convinced to change my mind about Monty (from totally incompetent wanker to competent general who happens to be a wanker). For me, half the fun is keeping an open mind, learning some new facts, doing a little homework, and developing a better understanding of history. Kevin, Oz, Tim Tyler and our new friend Canadian Samurai have all opened my eyes on certain points, and to a certain extent (in the case of Kevin and Tim to a great extent) changed my opinions on certain issues based on information I had never before been exposed to.

 

[Robert E. Lee]

This is based purely on ability

1. Hannibal Barca (why hasen't anybody mentioned him?)
2. Napoleon
3. Alexander the Great
4. Robert E. Lee
5. Arthur Wesely
6. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
7. Winfield Scott
8. Julius Caesar
9. Saladin
10. Erwin Rommel

 

[Currahee Chris]

I have never in my life ever said anything negative about any country's commanders or leadership (well, except Napoleon ). I have never EVER said anything negative about Monty or anyone else. I do value all military traditions from across the globe and do my very best to avoid playing Monday morning general. Please note that this posting was intended to give some of my "Napoleonic" friends a chance to pick on me a bit as I always razz them about their appreciation of Nap- namely Wellington and Cap Ron- nothing more- If memory serves, I did, from the beginning, CLEARLY identify that there was no scientific thought put into this whatsoever and that it was simply just to liven/loosen things up- guess it got things going lively enough - This was a list of my favorites, nothing more. Do they happen to be American, yes, for the most part they are- how this got twisted into me not supporting other countries leadership is beyond me.

Simply put, this was one soldiers way of discussing his favorite commanders and if anyone here has felt that I have slighted their country or their military tradition, I am terribly sorry for that. That was NEVER my intention.

Shannon and Peter- I offer my deepest apologies yet again for opening a can of worms with another one of my threads, trust me, it wasn't my intention.

You guys stay cool and live free- CC signing off. It's been a fun ride.

 

[Bob]

Since this is “favourite” commanders rather than decisive or influencial I would mention some different generals

“Corporal John” – Marlborough who never lost a battle nor failed to take a city he besieged.
Robert Blake - who laid the foundations of Britain’s sea power
Monck
Ryngold – one of my favourites for destroying Schenk and his army at Saule (of course I know as you do that many believe Ryngold didn’t exist – but someone led the army)
Jan Jiskra of Brandys – another favourite of mine first for his loyalty to Ladislav Posthumous and the fact he held Hunydai at bay for a decade
Hunyadi – the man who saved Europe
Jan Zizka of Trocnov – I once reviewed a book by an American Officer on the most influential commanders – he rated Washington as the most influential of all time as he created the US, the greatest democracy in the world. I commented that Zizka laid the foundations for the Reformation, without which there would have been no Pilgrim Fathers and no George Washington.

 

[Capitolron]

I think Chris has been asking for this for sometime now:

NAPOLEON !

There - I feel better now

 

[eborris]

What, no Custer, Fetterman, Pulleine or Santa Anna?

 

[Robert E. Lee]

Random Private at Gettysburg!!!!

 

[OzDigger]

I have never in my life ever said anything negative about any country's commanders or leadership (well, except Napoleon ). I have never EVER said anything negative about Monty or anyone else. I do value all military traditions from across the globe and do my very best to avoid playing Monday morning general. Please note that this posting was intended to give some of my "Napoleonic" friends a chance to pick on me a bit as I always razz them about their appreciation of Nap- namely Wellington and Cap Ron- nothing more- If memory serves, I did, from the beginning, CLEARLY identify that there was no scientific thought put into this whatsoever and that it was simply just to liven/loosen things up- guess it got things going lively enough - This was a list of my favorites, nothing more. Do they happen to be American, yes, for the most part they are- how this got twisted into me not supporting other countries leadership is beyond me.

Simply put, this was one soldiers way of discussing his favorite commanders and if anyone here has felt that I have slighted their country or their military tradition, I am terribly sorry for that. That was NEVER my intention.

Shannon and Peter- I offer my deepest apologies yet again for opening a can of worms with another one of my threads, trust me, it wasn't my intention.

You guys stay cool and live free- CC signing off. It's been a fun ride.

Hi CC, I hope you reconsider leaving the forum because you cannot be held accountable for the actions of other members. I also hope that my post(s) didn't influence you in any way as I was speaking in general terms when I suggested members read military books from a variety of countries.

It's human nature to jump to the defence of your own country and also to have a biased view of most things, including military history.....and military models. A good recent example being K & C's BBA013 "JES Make Sure He is Dead" figure set, that depicts a couple of GI's apparently considering shooting a "dead" German soldier with a BAR....just to be sure:

I suspect if that were two Germans soldiers about to shoot an "apparently" dead GI I'd say Andy would have received a number of complaints by now as well as an issue of some debate on this forum.

 

[jazzeum]

That's a set I found, if not exactly repulsive (perhaps a too strong a word), not a set I wanted to have in my collection. Oz, I believe you're right, there would have been a lot of a debate.

 

[Currahee Chris]

Hi CC, I hope you reconsider leaving the forum because you cannot be held accountable for the actions of other members. I also hope that my post(s) didn't influence you in any way as I was speaking in general terms when I suggested members read military books from a variety of countries.

It's human nature to jump to the defence of your own country and also to have a biased view of most things, including military history.....and military models.

Hey Oz- thanks for the kind words and many thanks to all the forum members here who contacted me privately with support.

It wasn't so much what you said as it was the message I took from it. Please believe me when I say I was acting rash- my wife says I am a 9 year old stuck in a 34 years olds body- an immature 9 year old at that It's funny but when "Tomahawk Jill" and I get into an argument, she will go get one of the kids blankets and hand it to me and then offer to go warm up my "Cuppy of Milk"

My biggest concern wasn't what you or anyone else said but that I may have been leaving my fellow forum members with the impression that I saw their military or military traditions as second rate behind the US. That has NEVER been a position of mine and I was very concerned that I was leaving that impression. I want to go officially on the record to say how exceptionally proud I am of the British, Australian, Polish and Italian forces for their support in the GWOT (Global War on Terror). As unpopular as this one is here in the States, I cannot imagine how difficult it is overseas in trying to keep the course straight. All of your countries have stood by us and I am EXCEPTIONALLY proud of the level of professionalism of all nations who are part of the coalition. I even wrote a letter to Tony Blair to thank him- (and invite him for a guinesses, hasn't taken me up on it yet).

Bottom line, I was really embarrased of myself if I was leaving that message/ impression with you guys and felt like it was the correct thing to do to dismiss myself from the discussion.

At this time, I feel I have made my position clear, just understand that it was a misunderstanding on my behalf and I acted like the big baby that I am

So, we are all cool here. I am not loosing another moment of posting time wallowing in my own whining.

STANDS ALONE!!
CC

 

[Rob]

I have never in my life ever said anything negative about any country's commanders or leadership (well, except Napoleon ). I have never EVER said anything negative about Monty or anyone else. I do value all military traditions from across the globe and do my very best to avoid playing Monday morning general. Please note that this posting was intended to give some of my "Napoleonic" friends a chance to pick on me a bit as I always razz them about their appreciation of Nap- namely Wellington and Cap Ron- nothing more- If memory serves, I did, from the beginning, CLEARLY identify that there was no scientific thought put into this whatsoever and that it was simply just to liven/loosen things up- guess it got things going lively enough - This was a list of my favorites, nothing more. Do they happen to be American, yes, for the most part they are- how this got twisted into me not supporting other countries leadership is beyond me.

Simply put, this was one soldiers way of discussing his favorite commanders and if anyone here has felt that I have slighted their country or their military tradition, I am terribly sorry for that. That was NEVER my intention.

Shannon and Peter- I offer my deepest apologies yet again for opening a can of worms with another one of my threads, trust me, it wasn't my intention.

You guys stay cool and live free- CC signing off. It's been a fun ride.

I can't see that you've upset anyone Chris?


Rob

 

[Rob]

Hi CC, I hope you reconsider leaving the forum because you cannot be held accountable for the actions of other members. I also hope that my post(s) didn't influence you in any way as I was speaking in general terms when I suggested members read military books from a variety of countries.

It's human nature to jump to the defence of your own country and also to have a biased view of most things, including military history.....and military models. A good recent example being K & C's BBA013 "JES Make Sure He is Dead" figure set, that depicts a couple of GI's apparently considering shooting a "dead" German soldier with a BAR....just to be sure:

I suspect if that were two Germans soldiers about to shoot an "apparently" dead GI I'd say Andy would have received a number of complaints by now as well as an issue of some debate on this forum.

To be honest this set doesn't worry me in the slightest.I like it.It was war,they were the enemy,its what happened.I think its a very natural set and it probably happened all the time.I hope i would not be upset if it was a Brit or GI either,its realistic and its what our young men had to do to come home alive.

Rob

 

[OzDigger]

To be honest this set doesn't worry me in the slightest.I like it.It was war,they were the enemy,its what happened.I think its a very natural set and it probably happened all the time.I hope i would not be upset if it was a Brit or GI either,its realistic and its what our young men had to do to come home alive.

Rob

I suspect that if it was a Brit or GI it wouldn't sell very well, at least in GB or the US