“If dealers were allowed to discount prices would be lower to collectors” (4 Viewers)

[King & Country]

Hi Guys,

Terry AKA “Phantom Warrior” made the above interesting suggestion in the “Toy Soldier Secondary Market”, thread…True, true Terry – prices would indeed be lower and I dare say continue to go south as dealers large and small got into a price-cutting war in order to grab that elusive sale.

Of course the smaller dealer(s) would rapidly go to the wall thus ensuing only a few larger ones would remain – kind of like Wal-Mart or in the old days Toys ’r’ Us would force out smaller independent stores…But hey who cares? Terry has his cheaper prices right?

But now there is less national coverage of this niche market/hobby of ours and the producer is actually selling less than he did before.

Less product sold equals less new product produced…but hey who cares? Terry can be as selective as he chooses and buy just what he likes…providing, of course, if the price is right. The producer meanwhile is on a long downward spiral…but hey who cares? Someone else will soon come along and supply Terry with exactly what Terry wants if, of course, the prices is right…Right?

Just a few random thoughts… but hey what do I know ?

Andy C.​

 

[uksubs]

Andy could you please post a link where Terry said that ?

 

[zulucollector]

Hi Guys,

Terry AKA “Phantom Warrior” made the above interesting suggestion in the “Toy Soldier Secondary Market”, thread…True, true Terry – prices would indeed be lower and I dare say continue to go south as dealers large and small got into a price-cutting war in order to grab that elusive sale.

Of course the smaller dealer(s) would rapidly go to the wall thus ensuing only a few larger ones would remain – kind of like Wal-Mart or in the old days Toys ’r’ Us would force out smaller independent stores…But hey who cares? Terry has his cheaper prices right?

But now there is less national coverage of this niche market/hobby of ours and the producer is actually selling less than he did before.

Less product sold equals less new product produced…but hey who cares? Terry can be as selective as he chooses and buy just what he likes…providing, of course, if the price is right. The producer meanwhile is on a long downward spiral…but hey who cares? Someone else will soon come along and supply Terry with exactly what Terry wants if, of course, the prices is right…Right?

Just a few random thoughts… but hey what do I know ?

Andy C.​

In the short run you would have lower prices but once consolidation occurred... the remaining large players would simply drive the prices back to the current levels.... plus if you did not live near one of the survivors you would now be paying shipping as your local store would have gone under or switched brands. I believe wbritains provides some discretion on pricing ie 10% discount but most dealers would simply say if you pay cash /debit to avoid large credit card merchant charges they give you a slightly better price...

 

[jazzeum]

Neil,

Look at post 37.

Brad

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Hi Guys,

Terry AKA “Phantom Warrior” made the above interesting suggestion in the “Toy Soldier Secondary Market”, thread…True, true Terry – prices would indeed be lower and I dare say continue to go south as dealers large and small got into a price-cutting war in order to grab that elusive sale.

Of course the smaller dealer(s) would rapidly go to the wall thus ensuing only a few larger ones would remain – kind of like Wal-Mart or in the old days Toys ’r’ Us would force out smaller independent stores…But hey who cares? Terry has his cheaper prices right?

But now there is less national coverage of this niche market/hobby of ours and the producer is actually selling less than he did before.

Less product sold equals less new product produced…but hey who cares? Terry can be as selective as he chooses and buy just what he likes…providing, of course, if the price is right. The producer meanwhile is on a long downward spiral…but hey who cares? Someone else will soon come along and supply Terry with exactly what Terry wants if, of course, the prices is right…Right?

Just a few random thoughts… but hey what do I know ?

Andy C.​

You needed to start a new thread for this? Why not just post in the thread already on that topic?

If dealers were allowed to discount after say 2 years just to clear their old stock, there might be more buyers at the lower price. That way the market would set the value of the items. It will be interesting to see how well the (P) do in the future because I don't see a difference.

Meanwhile I will continue to follow your collecting strategy of buying what I like and can afford. Although at times I will have to settle for the dreary poses of some of the other manufacturers.

Terry

 

[uksubs]

Neil,

Look at post 37.

Brad

Thank Brad

 

[BLReed]

You needed to start a new thread for this? Why not just post in the thread already on that topic?

He always does that. I'm waiting for the new thread on flaking paint.

 

[Simpson & his donkey.]

I must of missed this thread and wonder why it has appeared. Chris.

 

[Alex]

One local KC dealer simply died because Prices were too high for the local market and he was not able to discount figures... but he actually did when he stopped buying from KC and unloaded all what he had left... but even at those reduced prices, things were not moving well.. took months..

I don't think that the problem is the price thing only... it is what you get for your money that matters for most people... and what you get now with the P thing is the exact same quality you had with the 2nd generation MG figures... but at a much higher price... I say no.

Alex

 

[DM101]

One local KC dealer simply died because Prices were too high for the local market and he was not able to discount figures... but he actually did when he stopped buying from KC and unloaded all what he had left... but even at those reduced prices, things were not moving well.. took months..

I don't think that the problem is the price thing only... it is what you get for your money that matters for most people... and what you get now with the P thing is the exact same quality you had with the 2nd generation MG figures... but at a much higher price... I say no.

Alex

This former KnC dealer you referring to - well the popular ones like WS, BBG, BBA, FOB, LAH range and the tanks moved very quickly when he unloaded at slashed prices. Most of these pieces were gone in 2 months. Of course we do not know the quantities of each piece he had in his inventory.

The slow moving ones were the Robert the Bruce set, AE, etc. figures which also moved when he slashed further

Anymore of such sale, do share with us - PM of course {sm4}

 

[zulucollector]

This former KnC dealer you referring to - well the popular ones like WS, BBG, BBA, FOB, LAH range and the tanks moved very quickly when he unloaded at slashed prices. Most of these pieces were gone in 2 months. Of course we do not know the quantities of each piece he had in his inventory.

The slow moving ones were the Robert the Bruce set, AE, etc. figures which also moved when he slashed further

Anymore of such sale, do share with us - PM of course {sm4}

This is not just a K&C issue, when a certain US wbritains dealer got caught selling below suggested retail price greater than 10% he lost his dealer rights, so he slashed prices more than 1/3 on ebay to move his stock. However what you have to remember is a going concern needs to generate a profit to continue while firesale sales is simply intended to get cents on the dollar so not to end up with inventory. Now saying all that I believe if the item is retired/used/valuable they have more flexible which would explain why some sellers post significant premiums on their own websites or to maintain good PR simply place the items on ebay and let the market decide the price so not to anger existing loyal customers. The question is likely whether these dealers are really K&C/wbritains etc dealers or buy to resell in the secondary markets for profit.

 

[Mitch]

Terry....

never knew your surname was AKA!!!!!LOL
Mitch

 

[Vezzolf]

One local KC dealer simply died because Prices were too high for the local market and he was not able to discount figures... but he actually did when he stopped buying from KC and unloaded all what he had left... but even at those reduced prices, things were not moving well.. took months..

I don't think that the problem is the price thing only... it is what you get for your money that matters for most people... and what you get now with the P thing is the exact same quality you had with the 2nd generation MG figures... but at a much higher price... I say no.

Alex

Well said, TS prices (especially K/C) just keep rising forcing many out of the hobby...Not only that but as you explained there is little justification for the price increases as the quality remains relatively unchanged. Dealers should be allowed to discount prices after 2-3 years to move "stagnant inventory". Obviously TS collectors are being careful as to what they will purchase. No One wants to be "STUCK With Stuff" that no one really wants....As prices rise to these ridiculous un-yielding levels levels, most of us will buy less....More STUFF on dealer shelves....Very Simple....Maybe if we label it as "retired" we can pass off TS purchases as investments.:wink2:

 

[Jack]

Well said, TS prices (especially K/C) just keep rising forcing many out of the hobby...Not only that but as you explained there is little justification for the price increases as the quality remains relatively unchanged. Dealers should be allowed to discount prices after 2-3 years to move "stagnant inventory". Obviously TS collectors are being careful as to what they will purchase. No One wants to be "STUCK With Stuff" that no one really wants....As prices rise to these ridiculous un-yielding levels levels, most of us will buy less....More STUFF on dealer shelves....Very Simple....Maybe if we label it as "retired" we can pass off TS purchases as investments.:wink2:

I agree - I was looking at dipping my toe into the water with a First Legion Stug and I see the first one was just retired. I do not have any FL or WW 2 vehicles for that matter but I waited too long although I can do the rounds of the shops and maybe pick one up or get one of the later ones but it put me off immediately. I am sick of chasing retired items particularly if I have to send for them from overseas. I think I will stick with my WW 1 vehicles from Jenkins.

 

[Rob]

I agree - I was looking at dipping my toe into the water with a First Legion Stug and I see the first one was just retired. I do not have any FL or WW 2 vehicles for that matter but I waited too long although I can do the rounds of the shops and maybe pick one up or get one of the later ones but it put me off immediately. I am sick of chasing retired items particularly if I have to send for them from overseas. I think I will stick with my WW 1 vehicles from Jenkins.

Well said. And looking at them in London the other week JJ WW1 vehicles are just superb, real quality, I was weakening myself but stayed strong as cash was short.......but no promises!^&grin

Rob

 

[Mitch]

I like the way that FL have a long shelf and has not used the ''retired'' gimmick.
Mitch

 

[jazzeum]

I like the way that FL have a long shelf and has not used the ''retired'' gimmick.
Mitch

They do retire figures. However, I'm not sure if they make announcements. For example, many of the Napoleonics are no longer made and Matt indicated that they do not intend to make any more of the 55th North Carolina Regiment (the first Civil War figures they made).

 

[Rob]

They do retire figures. However, I'm not sure if they make announcements. For example, many of the Napoleonics are no longer made and Matt indicated that they do not intend to make any more of the 55th North Carolina Regiment (the first Civil War figures they made).

Brad, do you have all those now? Lovely figs they are, in my view the best FL produce.

Rob

 

[uksubs]

I agree - I was looking at dipping my toe into the water with a First Legion Stug and I see the first one was just retired. I do not have any FL or WW 2 vehicles for that matter but I waited too long although I can do the rounds of the shops and maybe pick one up or get one of the later ones but it put me off immediately. I am sick of chasing retired items particularly if I have to send for them from overseas. I think I will stick with my WW 1 vehicles from Jenkins.

To be fair why single out fl when you could say that with any company ?

 

[Rob]

To be fair why single out fl when you could say that with any company ?

Neil, I would imagine because Jack's opening line was ' I was thinking of getting the FL Stug' ...I may be wrong of course Neil!:smile2:

Rob