1/30 or 1/32 (1 Viewer)

[Steven Chong]

I'm sure Andy, if he opined on the issue, would disagree...

Andy has previously posted that K&C WWII is 1/30 scale, but stated there was occasionally some shrinkage in the polystone casting process for vehicles. Since the difference between 1/30 and 1/32 scale can be fractions of an inch in smaller pieces, any shrinkage would make a piece appear to be a different scale. I personally doubt most of the manufacturers will go to the expense of resculpting a vehicle if test samples were fractions of an inch smaller because of shrinkage, though I did hear that Figarti redid the master of their Tiger hull several times when the shrinkage was too extreme. As Andy has always said, buy it if you like it, and don't buy it if you don't like it. However, please note I am not saying the concerns over the differences in scale within a line should not be discussed.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

You Guys have to tell Andy, about these sizes! Yes it does seem , that this Sculpture is 'Scrimping' on the Production, and telling Andy these are 1/30th Scale and NOT 1/32nd ; but their is something "Fishy", and I know its NOT Totally 1/30th Scale, on ALL of K & C Production! This was my Beef with K & C ALL along! If this Problem Persist ,I may go with another Toy Company, who makes 1/30th Scale and Nothing Less in Size! We're Paying Customers for these Productions, and you should get 'What you Want' in the Scale Sizes!

John, I've got a couple of K&C's new Field of Battle and FJs and they seem a little bigger than some of my other guys - definitely 1/30, maybe even 1/29. Perhaps K&C has heard your concerns?

 

[maddadicus]

The Stuart ,Vickers, last Tigers, are definately 1/32 scale...I found a scale check program, that will take real dimensions and convert to the needed scale inches....I will use it to check the rest of my K/C vehicles and let you know...But ,make no mistake, all is not consistent in K/C land, favorite mfg. blinders on or not...Michael

 

[redhugh]

Andy has previously posted that K&C WWII is 1/30 scale

Like I said I think the Hummel is great, but it does say on the side of the K & C Box 1/32. K&C put the 1/32 there not I.
So I'm just wondering what other vehicles are 1/32 as there is no way of tellling online?

I'm not particularly concerned about it , and K&C are the leaders and innovators in this field , but would be useful to know especially in dioramas where figures and armour are close up

 

[Combat]

How does KC make Stirling a bit large because he was a tall guy, and yet get the color and model of the Heydrich car wrong? They call that a paradox (according to Jack in The Departed).

 

[maddadicus]

Good news . I put the specs for a Panther, Sherman, and Stuart, through my scale converter program ( meters - inches ) Results

Panther W should be 4.5" actual 4.5"
.................L should be 11.6"actual 9"
.................H should be 4" actual 4" 1/30 SCALE / SHORT 2"

Sherman W should be 3" actual 3"
.................L should be 5.7" actual 5.6"
.................H should be 3" actual 3" 1/30 SCALE

Stuart W should be 3.5" actual 3.6"
.................L should be 7.7" actual 7.6"
.................H should be 3.6" actual 3.6" 1/30 SCALE

It seems Figarti got their scale wrong on the Honey and so far I owe Andy an I am sorry for doubting the scale...It is possible that the specs taken from the net might be wrong or the converter might be buggy, but the # so far seem indisputable...Michael

 

[Beaufighter]

Wow! Interesting stats Michael. Thanks for doing the homework. I wonder what scale the K&C DD23 Stuart is then compared to the DD67 version?

Hang Tough,
Beaufighter

 

[jazzeum]

I think the box is a misnomer because all the vehicle boxes (the one with WS 43 on the cover art) say the same thing, to wit "To complement 1:32 scale figurines, we also provide an ever expanding collection of fighting vehicles and display buildings." As they've been using this box for a long time, my guess is that it was a typo that wasn't caught and it was probably too expensive to redo when discovered. At any rate, it refers to the figures, not the vehicle, for whatever that's worth, and I don't think it's dispositive that the World War II line is 1:32.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

Michael, can you do the same for one of K&C's Tigers because as you've said, I've heard it's a bit underscale.

Also, your findings, if correct, would suggest that the Forces of Valor Stuart that you showed side-by-side with the K&C version a few months back is in fact 1:30?? I wonder what other FOV vehicles match up? I have the FOV Matilda, schwimwagen and 105mm howitzer and they're clearly all 1:32, maybe even as small as 1:35, as are the figures. Is the Stuart then an especially large oddity?

 

[storch]

I made some of the same observations on a previous thread. I now have all the LRDG sets (with the exception of the camouflaged truck). I love the figures and the vehicles, but I am a bit disappointed with the inconsistency of the scale. If you look at the figures in the truck, they are much smaller than other figures in the collection. The machine gunner standing on the back of the truck stands out as a figure out of scale. This figure matches the crouching English soldier, but if you compare it to the Australian firing his rifle in a standing position, the difference is huge; the head of the Australian is almost twice as big as that of the LRDG figure. I can understand the issue of shrinkage in reference to vehicles, but does that also apply to the figures? And while we are talking about this. I really would like the figures to be detached from the vehicle. Having the figures glued to the vehicles limits what you can do with the set in a diorama. With detachable figures you can do so many more things.

Gil

 

[Canadian Samurai]

Hmmm. very interesting info Gil. There's really no excuse for underscale figures. I also thought this was mainly a symptom of earlier K&C releases - perhaps not. How does the guy in the back of the truck compare to other earlier K&C releases? If you were comparing him to the firing Australian in EA20, maybe the fault lies more with EA20 because there seems to be something seriously wrong with the scale of one or both figures in that set as others have mentioned previously.

 

[OzDigger]

I feel that manufacturers should respect their customers enough to take the trouble to ensure consistency throughout a particular range. I have several K & C vehicles including the recent Hummel and Gepard which are both very good models and look close enough in size to their figures.

However their models and even some figures certainly do seem a bit random in scale. For example, I haven't bought any K & C Panthers or Tiger tanks as they seem way to small compared to their figures so I'll wait until HB releases their Tiger and get one to go with Barkmann's Panther.

I haven't seen the EA 20 set in person as yet so I can't comment on accuracy regarding the figure sizes but I should point out that the Aussie is actually a New Zealander as he has a "Lemon Squeezer" style slouch hat.

 

[Steven Chong]

...
Stuart W should be 3.5" actual 3.6"
.................L should be 7.7" actual 7.6"
.................H should be 3.6" actual 3.6" 1/30 SCALE

It seems Figarti got their scale wrong on the Honey and so far I owe Andy an I am sorry for doubting the scale...It is possible that the specs taken from the net might be wrong or the converter might be buggy, but the # so far seem indisputable...Michael

Dear Michael,

With all due respect, I have to disagree with your calculations. First, let's agree with our starting measurements for a M3A1. Various tank references have slightly different measurements for this Stuart tank (Hopefully Gary B. can say what reference is most accepted):

1) The Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles - The Comprehensive Guide to Over 900 Armored Fighting Vehicles From 1915 to the Present Day, General Editor: Christopher F. Foss, 2002: W: 7'4" or 2.22m, L: 14'10" or 4.54m, H: 7'7" or 2.3m

2) British and American Tanks of World War Two, The Complete Illustrated History of British, American, and Commonwealth Tanks 1933-1945, Peter Chamberlain and Chris Ellis, 1969: W: 7'4", L: 14'10.75", H: 7'6.5"

3) Tanks of the World, 1915-1945, Peter Chamberlain, Chris Ellis, 1972: Same authors with two measurements slightly different: W: 7'4", L: 14'10", H: 7'6"

4) The Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II, Chris Bishop, 1998: W: 7'4" or 2.24m, L: 14'10.75" or 4.54m, H: 7'6.5" or 2.3m

5) Jane's World War II Tanks and Fighting Vehicles The Complete Guide, Leland Ness, 2002: W: 7'4" or 2.24m, L: 14'10.75" or 4.54m, H: 7'6.5" or 2.3m

6) Tank Data, World War II, Aberdeen Proving Grounds Series, 1969: W: 7'3", L: 14'8", H: 7'5"

Using the most repeated measurements, I will use W: 7'4", L: 14'10.75", and H: 7'6.5" and first convert them to inches: W: 88", L: 178.75", and H: 90.5".

Now, 1/30 scale is the above measurements in inches divided by 30 and 1/32 scale is these measurements divided by 32:

1/30 scale: W: 2.9333", L: 5.9583" and H: 3.017"
1/32 scale: W: 2.75", L: 5.5859" and H: 2.8281"

Now, measuring my Figarti M3A1: W: 2.75", L: 5 9/16 or 5.5625", H: 2 14/16" or 2.875" so I would have to conclude it is very close to a true 1/32 scale.

My K&C Stuarts are all currently stored, so I will use your measurements: W: 3.6", L: 7.6", and H: 3.6". These measurements make the scale of this vehicle closer to 1/24 scale if you accept a 1/30 scale M3A1 Stuart has dimensions of W: 2.9333", L: 5.9583" and H: 3.017". I am wondering if you measured your DD067, which is a M5 model or included the length of the hedgerows. Hopefully, someone else can provide measurements of their K&C Stuart since I do not think K&C's scale would be off so much.

Finally, I hope everyone notices that the difference between 1/30 scale and 1/32 scale for a M3A1 is less than 1/4 an inch for width and height and less than 1/2 an inch for length, which is probably why many collectors say the Figarti Stuart goes well with their K&C Stuart.

 

[vandilay]

I feel that manufacturers should respect their customers enough to take the trouble to ensure consistency throughout a particular range. I have several K & C vehicles including the recent Hummel and Gepard which are both very good models and look close enough in size to their figures.

However their models and even some figures certainly do seem a bit random in scale. For example, I haven't bought any K & C Panthers or Tiger tanks as they seem way to small compared to their figures so I'll wait until HB releases their Tiger and get one to go with Barkmann's Panther.

I haven't seen the EA 20 set in person as yet so I can't comment on accuracy regarding the figure sizes but I should point out that the Aussie is actually a New Zealander as he has a "Lemon Squeezer" style slouch hat.

Hi Oz

Where not doing to bad in terms of sets available on this side of the ditch
featuring our countrymen ,kiwi dingo ,EA 20 and 2 lrdg trucks I,m sure thats
about as good as its gonna get being a kiwi collector . [I have read that
aussies where initialy asked to form the LRP but they wouldnt serve under
a british officer so New zealand was asked].

 

[Capitolron]

My observation with the Desert Vickers is only with the figures that I had at the time - which showed the 1/30 to 1/32 problem. I also have the Summer Normandy Panther (WS 72) which is slightly smaller to the German Tank Riders (WS 31) - both are great sets - but there is a small difference.

None of this makes the products are bad in my opinion - it just makes it hard to put them together in diorama scenes. I agree with Andy's view "buy what you like" - but, that doesnt mean we cant have a conversation about this issue and listen to each others views.

I believe that King and Country is the BEST overall Toy Soldier Company in the World. Thats my opinion - I do like others and have others in my collection - but, Andy's work is TOPS in my book.

But, that doesnt mean you cant have opinion on size issues with particular figures - some are very noticable - other figures are not.

Overall its not a major deal - unless you are trying to use the figures that are different - but, all these products are wonderful in there own right.

Ron

 

[OzDigger]

Dear Michael,

With all due respect, I have to disagree with your calculations. First, let's agree with our starting measurements for a M3A1. Various tank references have slightly different measurements for this Stuart tank (Hopefully Gary B. can say what reference is most accepted):

1) The Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles - The Comprehensive Guide to Over 900 Armored Fighting Vehicles From 1915 to the Present Day, General Editor: Christopher F. Foss, 2002: W: 7'4" or 2.22m, L: 14'10" or 4.54m, H: 7'7" or 2.3m

2) British and American Tanks of World War Two, The Complete Illustrated History of British, American, and Commonwealth Tanks 1933-1945, Peter Chamberlain and Chris Ellis, 1969: W: 7'4", L: 14'10.75", H: 7'6.5"

3) Tanks of the World, 1915-1945, Peter Chamberlain, Chris Ellis, 1972: Same authors with two measurements slightly different: W: 7'4", L: 14'10", H: 7'6"

4) The Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II, Chris Bishop, 1998: W: 7'4" or 2.24m, L: 14'10.75" or 4.54m, H: 7'6.5" or 2.3m

5) Jane's World War II Tanks and Fighting Vehicles The Complete Guide, Leland Ness, 2002: W: 7'4" or 2.24m, L: 14'10.75" or 4.54m, H: 7'6.5" or 2.3m

6) Tank Data, World War II, Aberdeen Proving Grounds Series, 1969: W: 7'3", L: 14'8", H: 7'5"

Using the most repeated measurements, I will use W: 7'4", L: 14'10.75", and H: 7'6.5" and first convert them to inches: W: 88", L: 178.75", and H: 90.5".

Now, 1/30 scale is the above measurements in inches divided by 30 and 1/32 scale is these measurements divided by 32:

1/30 scale: W: 2.9333", L: 5.9583" and H: 3.017"
1/32 scale: W: 2.75", L: 5.5859" and H: 2.8281"

Now, measuring my Figarti M3A1: W: 2.75", L: 5 9/16 or 5.5625", H: 2 14/16" or 2.875" so I would have to conclude it is very close to a true 1/32 scale.

My K&C Stuarts are all currently stored, so I will use your measurements: W: 3.6", L: 7.6", and H: 3.6". These measurements make the scale of this vehicle closer to 1/24 scale if you accept a 1/30 scale M3A1 Stuart has dimensions of W: 2.9333", L: 5.9583" and H: 3.017". I am wondering if you measured your DD067, which is a M5 model or included the length of the hedgerows. Hopefully, someone else can provide measurements of their K&C Stuart since I do not think K&C's scale would be off so much.

Finally, I hope everyone notices that the difference between 1/30 scale and 1/32 scale for a M3A1 is less than 1/4 an inch for width and height and less than 1/2 an inch for length, which is probably why many collectors say the Figarti Stuart goes well with their K&C Stuart.

Steve et al, I have been down this track before and have found that references vary a good deal depending upon a number of factors such as:

* The variant of the tank as some changes resulted in length, height or width variations

* Length measurements may vary depending upon hull only or if add-ons such as front and rear track guards, air filters etc are included in the length.

* Height measurements can also vary depending if the measurement is taken at the main turret or includes the cupola or other extras that may affect the height.

* Width can be chassis only or include tracks or even side guards.

Therefore I have found these measurements are essentially meaningless and the best size guide is to Google some actually images of the tank/vehicle against actual troops on the vehicle or nearby. By checking contemporary photos I have noted that K & C Tigers and Panthers just look to small compared to their figures whereas say their Hummel, Gepard, Kubelwagen, Motor Cycle & Sidecar appear ok.

 

[OzDigger]

Hi Oz

Where not doing to bad in terms of sets available on this side of the ditch
featuring our countrymen ,kiwi dingo ,EA 20 and 2 lrdg trucks I,m sure thats
about as good as its gonna get being a kiwi collector . [I have read that
aussies where initialy asked to form the LRP but they wouldnt serve under
a british officer so New zealand was asked].

Hi Vandi, yes you Kiwis seem to be getting some good coverage in K & C models, maybe some Aussies will appear in the WWI range.

As for the LRDG etc, I thought the Aussies knocked it back because they were worried they wouldn't be able to get cold beer out in the desert

 

[Rob]

Hi Vandi, yes you Kiwis seem to be getting some good coverage in K & C models, maybe some Aussies will appear in the WWI range.

As for the LRDG etc, I thought the Aussies knocked it back because they were worried they wouldn't be able to get cold beer out in the desert

But in all those Fosters adverts their always in the middle of nowhere!

Rob

 

[maddadicus]

Dear Michael,

With all due respect, I have to disagree with your calculations. First, let's agree with our starting measurements for a M3A1. Various tank references have slightly different measurements for this Stuart tank (Hopefully Gary B. can say what reference is most accepted):

3) Tanks of the World, 1915-1945, Peter Chamberlain, Chris Ellis, 1972: Same authors with two measurements slightly different: W: 7'4", L: 14'10", H: 7'6"

Using the most repeated measurements, I will use W: 7'4", L: 14'10.75", and H: 7'6.5" and first convert them to inches: W: 88", L: 178.75", and H: 90.5".

Now, 1/30 scale is the above measurements in inches divided by 30 and 1/32 scale is these measurements divided by 32:

1/30 scale: W: 2.9333", L: 5.9583" and H: 3.017"
1/32 scale: W: 2.75", L: 5.5859" and H: 2.8281"

Now, measuring my Figarti M3A1: W: 2.75", L: 5 9/16 or 5.5625", H: 2 14/16" or 2.875" so I would have to conclude it is very close to a true 1/32 scale.

My K&C Stuarts are all currently stored, so I will use your measurements: W: 3.6", L: 7.6", and H: 3.6". These measurements make the scale of this vehicle closer to 1/24 scale if you accept a 1/30 scale M3A1 Stuart has dimensions of W: 2.9333", L: 5.9583" and H: 3.017". I am wondering if you measured your DD067, which is a M5 model or included the length of the hedgerows. Hopefully, someone else can provide measurements of their K&C Stuart since I do not think K&C's scale would be off so much.

Finally, I hope everyone notices that the difference between 1/30 scale and 1/32 scale for a M3A1 is less than 1/4 an inch for width and height and less than 1/2 an inch for length, which is probably why many collectors say the Figarti Stuart goes well with their K&C Stuart.

Dear Steve, I am glad you chimed in...my dimensions came from TANKS OF THE WORLD...and I am using a downloaded scale converter program ,from a modeling site....The new Stuart was measured without cutter....having said that, I can not vouch for the accuracy of the program. It says what it says and all I did was list the results. I thought it would be interesting if anyone could actually do the math ,as to their models scale accuracy. It would keep folks from guessing as to whether they look good as opposed to do they really belong together...Also the calculations for the Stuart and Sherman should be reversed with the smalller dimensions for the Stuart...Sorry.Michael

 

[The Lt.]

I'm sure this will shed some light on the subject....The Lt.