2012 Tiger I Tanks -- Concern with Overlapped/Interleaved Road Wheels (2 Viewers)

[Southern Man]

Hi,

This is my first post to a forum so I hope I do this right...

I received two Collector's Showcase Tiger I tanks a few weeks ago and other than a messy decal, was generally pleased with them. The two models I got were

1. CS00631 - Tiger I; Wittmann, Kursk
2. CS00648 - Tiger I; Wittmann, Winter

But after studying them for a while, I realized that the outer road wheels looked wrong. The wheels' overlapping pattern was not what I've seen in photographs of Tiger I tanks in WWII (and not like other Tiger I models I own). Brian at The Collector's Showcase and I exchanged some emails about the issue, and he tried to assuage my concern. But the more I study the overlapping road wheels, the more I think the overlapping pattern is wrong. Has anyone else studied those Tiger tank models? Does anyone else have concerns about the road wheels' overlap pattern?

One possibility is that each model was done to show a Tiger with all its outer road wheels removed (reasonable for a Tiger being transported on a rail car). That possibility seems especially true given how much of the track is overhanging the wheels. But the outer road wheel overlap pattern still isn't right at the drive sprocket. And if all the outer road wheels were removed, wouldn't the hubs still be poking out (like on earlier models like the CS00523 Tiger I with steel wheels)?

I really enjoy Collector's Showcase models and plan to acquire more, but these two Tiger I models are bothering me. Before I toss the two in the trash, are there any experts at this forum who can tell me why the Tigers' outer road wheels are the way the are? Are the road wheels modeled correctly?

Southern Man

 

[uksubs]

Hi,

This is my first post to a forum so I hope I do this right...

I received two Collector's Showcase Tiger I tanks a few weeks ago and other than a messy decal, was generally pleased with them. The two models I got were

1. CS00631 - Tiger I; Wittmann, Kursk
2. CS00648 - Tiger I; Wittmann, Winter

But after studying them for a while, I realized that the outer road wheels looked wrong. The wheels' overlapping pattern was not what I've seen in photographs of Tiger I tanks in WWII (and not like other Tiger I models I own). Brian at The Collector's Showcase and I exchanged some emails about the issue, and he tried to assuage my concern. But the more I study the overlapping road wheels, the more I think the overlapping pattern is wrong. Has anyone else studied those Tiger tank models? Does anyone else have concerns about the road wheels' overlap pattern?

One possibility is that each model was done to show a Tiger with all its outer road wheels removed (reasonable for a Tiger being transported on a rail car). That possibility seems especially true given how much of the track is overhanging the wheels. But the outer road wheel overlap pattern still isn't right at the drive sprocket. And if all the outer road wheels were removed, wouldn't the hubs still be poking out (like on earlier models like the CS00523 Tiger I with steel wheels)?

I really enjoy Collector's Showcase models and plan to acquire more, but these two Tiger I models are bothering me. Before I toss the two in the trash, are there any experts at this forum who can tell me why the Tigers' outer road wheels are the way the are? Are the road wheels modeled correctly?

Southern Man

I think posting a photo of the tiger tank you have will help with people replying to your post

 

[maddadicus]

Here are some comparative photos..

 

[Obee]

I'm no 'rivet counter' but the pictures look correct and the model isn't right.

I've also checked other makers, who match the photos of the original....

so something is amiss {sm3}{sm3}

John

 

[uksubs]

Here are some comparative photos..

Thanks for the photos . Yep he right the track wheels are on wrong {eek3}

 

[waynepoo]

I am no expert by a long shot..but they look like King Tiger road wheels? certainly not right....
Wayne.

 

[OzDigger]

007 was a late model Tiger with Steel Wheels and Zimmerit, like this:

 

[Mitch]

The road wheels for this tiger I are correct in that they are the steel road wheels that were used on Tigers of a specific production type. Wittmann's last Tiger was a mix of production parts which has caused confusion for some as to what Tiger he was in when he was bagged but, the wheels were the steel type.

There are a number of issues with these CS Tigers but, the road wheels for the variants are correct, When Wittmann and crew were posed for his Ritterkreuz they were in a different variant which did not have steel road wheels but, the ones many people associate with Tigers that has been posted in pictures.

So, in terms of road wheels Brian is correct. By the way welcome to the forum
Mitch

 

[Jürgen_Keuppe]

007 was a late model Tiger with Steel Wheels and Zimmerit, like this:

whew...that explains it. thanks

 

[maddadicus]

Gotta like it when we can politely question something on any model, get politely informed answers, and in the end, no posted threats, no deleted responses, no us against them sides created. I must be in the wrong forum.^&grin Michael

 

[WesternOutlaw]

Hi Southern man. Welcome to the forum. Your Kursk Wittman version looks like a fantastic tank. Even if the wheels are in or out, it's still a beautiful model with a nice paint scheme. Seems that last picture explains it though. I own a CS Afrikakorps Tiger (front wheels set in). My biggest complaint is the decals but I live with it.

Maddadicus: nice picture with the figures.

 

[jazzeum]

I hope you weren't serious when you said you would throw them in the garbage. I'm sure there would be people on here interested in purchasing them and, if not here, then eBay.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Wittmann's last tank 007 has been widely debated and researched. There are only two known photos of the destroyed tank - one photo from the rear and one photo of the upside down turret. The only conclusive evidence about the tank is that it had zimmerit as seen in the photos. The wheels are not visible so it is not possible to tell if they are the earlier rubber rimmed wheels or the later steel rimmed wheels. The gunsight on the turret is not visible so we can't tell if it is the binocular gunsight of a mid-production Tiger or the monocular gunsight of a late production Tiger. There are several old threads on this forum where this topic was studied.

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

When analyzing a Tiger's suspension there are two types of road wheels and 2 widths of track.

The first road wheels were rubber rimmed and there were 4 rows of them with 3 wheels per axle.



They were concave shaped like a shallow soup bowl and a ring of bolts near the centre of the wheel. The first road wheel partly overlapped the front return sprocket and the wheels filled the width of the standard track.



And to complicate things, here is a photo with the outer rubber rimmed wheels removed leaving the front sprocket fully exposed and the standard track to extend beyond the outer road wheels making it look like a steel wheel configuration.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Steel rimmed road wheels came later. They were flat wheels (not concave) with a ring of bolts around the outside of the wheel. (they do look like King Tiger wheels as Wayne pointed out - I think they used the same wheel) They were stronger than rubber rimmed wheels and they were arranged in 3 rows instead of 4 with 2 wheels per axel instead of 3. They did not fill the width of a standard track and did not overlap the front sprocket.



They did take the full width of the narrow track.

 

[wwiibuff]

Please Southern Man, don't "toss the two in the trash"!{eek3} Glad you got your answer on the road wheels, yes they are correct for a late version steel rimmed Tiger I.

Actually these two Tiger I's done by CS are my favorite Tigers. I know some people have issues with them as to size and maybe other things, but to me they are great and look the correct proportion to most of the WWII soldiers I have.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

The CS Wittmann 007 Tiger has zimmerit as confirmed in an actual photo.



It has flat steel wheels which do not overlap the front sprocket and a narrow track. It is a very possible configuration of 007, but there is no photographic evidence to confirm it.

Terry

 

[wwiibuff]

The CS Wittmann 007 Tiger has zimmerit as confirmed in an actual photo.

View attachment 122433

It has flat steel wheels which do not overlap the front sprocket and a narrow track. It is a very possible configuration of 007, but there is no photographic evidence to confirm it.

Terry

Yes, but there is photographic evidence of Tiger I's in Normandy that have this very configuration so very likely 007 would have been the same.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Yes, but there is photographic evidence of Tiger I's in Normandy that have this very configuration so very likely 007 would have been the same.

Very Possible yes, but there were lots of mid-production Tigers there too with rubber rimmed road wheels and binocular gun sights. No verification has been possible on the actual configuration of 007 other than the zimmerit. But to be clear the CS Wittmann 007 Tiger is correct for one of the possible configurations of the actual tank

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Leaving the correct Wittmann 007 Tiger and focusing on the original question, the Wittmann Kursk and Winter Tigers are not the same as 007 and do not look like any configuration of wheels I have seen and are probably wrong.



Terry