900 dollar K & C Light posts???? (1 Viewer)

[Combat]

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So very strange, you imply that "Phamtom Bidding" may be going on in a transaction where even the slightest investigation would tell a person that two seperate bidders were seeking the same item. One winning the first auction, the other the second.

Then you admit you don't sell anything and rarely buy!

Just incredible, another expert, with little knowledge of what he speaks about.

I find this offensive as a person that has been involved with Ebay and other collectors for over 12 years.

Next time why not do a little research?

John-
I hope we can have differences of opinion without being deemed offensive. When you say that it's "sour grapes" to me that implies I have some interest here. Right? How else would I have sour grapes about a transaction that I am not involved in? When I point out that's not the case because I'm not a seller on ebay, you try to change the topic to whether I'm qualified to have an informed opinion because I'm not a seller. On and on. The bottom line is that you want to promote the highest possible prices on the secondary market because you are a seller. Nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying reasonable people are not going to pay nearly $1K for a $20 retail item that collectors do not appear to be in a frenzy to get. I have never seen a single post on this forum expressing interest in this item. But if someone is now thinking about paying a bundle for this in the future because it "sold" for that price they are naive. Post on the forum that you want one and I bet they get plenty of offers for much less. That's called helping people out rather than screwing them over.

 

[Njja]

John-
I hope we can have differences of opinion without being deemed offensive. When you say that it's "sour grapes" to me that implies I have some interest here. Right? How else would I have sour grapes about a transaction that I am not involved in? When I point out that's not the case because I'm not a seller on ebay, you try to change the topic to whether I'm qualified to have an informed opinion because I'm not a seller.

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1. If you are not a "Seller" and rarely a "Buyer" why comment at all on this transaction?

2. A normal collector would simply find the transaction interesting. If he had one he might be pleased to know there was interest in it. If he did not.....well whats the difference?

3. Not knowing the buyer we should not judge either his reason for bidding, or mental state. I would simply think he wanted it just like when I bid on an item.

4. The only logical conclusion I can come to when I see the little "Nitch" of Complainers jump out everytime something sells is that they are Jealous. Of what, I can't be sure......perhaps its that someone sold something and they didn't. Perhaps its that someone can afford something and they cannot.

5. It would be nice if you clarified your "Phamton Bidder" accusation since I pointed out 2 differnt bidders each winning a seperate auction, and a seller with a good reputation that many Forum members have done business with.

 

[Combat]

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1. If you are not a "Seller" and rarely a "Buyer" why comment at all on this transaction?

Like I said trying to help collectors instead of screwing them. That appears to be a concept that is difficult to get across to you. Someone without a financial interest has an opinion that doesn't concern just themselves. Gasp.

2. A normal collector would simply find the transaction interesting. If he had one he might be pleased to know there was interest in it. If he did not.....well whats the difference?

If you don't know the answer, then that explains a lot.

3. Not knowing the buyer we should not judge either his reason for bidding, or mental state. I would simply think he wanted it just like when I bid on an item.

If I wanted a paper clip, I would not spend $1K. My guess is that you wouldn't either. We wouldn't have to know the buyer to conclude that his actions are unreasonable in this instance. How about you buy mine for that price to prove that I'm wrong?

4. The only logical conclusion I can come to when I see the little "Nitch" of Complainers jump out everytime something sells is that they are Jealous. Of what, I can't be sure......perhaps its that someone sold something and they didn't. Perhaps its that someone can afford something and they cannot.

Like I said - I DONT SELL ON EBAY. I have this set it cost $21.

5. It would be nice if you clarified your "Phamton Bidder" accusation since I pointed out 2 differnt bidders each winning a seperate auction, and a seller with a good reputation that many Forum members have done business with.

If there are two bidders it has to be legit? That must be one of those advanced economic theories the rest of us don't get.

 

[Njja]

If there are two bidders it has to be legit? That must be one of those advanced economic theories the rest of us don't get.

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No only you don't get it.

1. You have a seller with an excellent reputation.

2. One auction goes off for $900

3. Second one goes off for $300

Who is going to pay the fees on the $1200 sale to Ebay?

How does this possibly benefit the seller?

In an eariler post you said "That's called helping people out rather than screwing them over.

Why not practice what you preach and give this seller the benefit of the doubt rather then imply they were dishonest?

I have no horse in this race, I didn't follow the auction until I was advised about its end result and read about it in this thread.

I believe it is wrong to imply someone else is dishonest simply because you are JEALOUS!

 

[kogu]

John,
refering to an earlier post from you, where this quote is from:

"I think far more damage is done when people list items for .99 that are routinely selling for $300-$400 dollars."

How and to who can their possibly any damage be done when auctions start at 99 Cents?

Konrad

 

[Njja]

John,
refering to an earlier post from you, where this quote is from:

"I think far more damage is done when people list items for .99 that are routinely selling for $300-$400 dollars."

How and to who can their possibly any damage be done when auctions start at 99 Cents?

Konrad

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Hi Konrad:

I keep track of current prices of many items, so I have a pretty good idea of values. Many factors contribue to an items value such as current demand, and number or frequency of an item being offered for sale.

Most collectors usually like to get a reasonable price when they decide to sell an item. It isn't always the highest value, often it depends on how much the collector has in his item, or exactly what he might want to buy.

Lets say you have an AN06 Arnhem Jeep and you decide to sell it. You bought it awhile ago for $250. Now you know it has already sold for $800+ and $700+ and has sold multiple times for $495. You have an item you want to buy for $500 so you decide you would like to get $495 for it.

How would you feel if 2 guys list it for .99 the next day? You aren't going to be very happy and can you imagine how annoyed they will be if their item sells for $100? I had one dealer stop talking to me becase he listed a rare item for .99 and I happened to win it for $275 What did I do wrong.......I was the high bidder.....but he expected to get $475+

Now you are always going to have uninformed people list items for .99, and in that situation someone might get a terrific deal, even the seller might be happy with the $100 or $200 he gets.

When an educated collector lists an item for .99 when he knows its worth $300 the only reason is to save a few bucks. If another guy comes along 3 days behind him and lists another one for .99 he will have a stroke if his item goes off for $75! So why kid ourselves?

Now certainly everyone is free to do as they please.

I simply offer this in response to your question.

 

[thebritfarmer]

This is all well and good John but you do realise the whole concept of eBay, it is (supposed to be)an online auction site not a shop. Therefor anything goes. Auctions always present a risk.

Do you watch antiques roadshow? There are different prices for auctions, shops & insurance. Which they regularly give. Surely you don't base your whole collection on eBay sales????

If there is a shell bidder the seller can just say the buyer backed out

 

[Njja]

This is all well and good John but you do realise the whole concept of eBay, it is (supposed to be)an online auction site not a shop. Therefor anything goes. Auctions always present a risk.

Do you watch antiques roadshow? There are different prices for auctions, shops & insurance. Which they regularly give. Surely you don't base your whole collection on eBay sales????

If there is a shell bidder the seller can just say the buyer backed out

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I have been on Ebay since the begining, before that I promoted both Train and Antique & Collectible shows and ran private collectible auctions. So I understand the concept to say the least.

Yes I watch antiques roadshow and I do not recall them ever telling someone with a valuable item that if they sold it on auction they would start it at .99 do you?

Having been on ebay for over 12 years and participating in over a dozen different fields I have seen lots of different questionable activities. I have also watched Ebay deal with these situations and I must say they do an excellent job.

They monitor who bids on auctions, and who pays and who doesn't. Its no simple matter to have selling fees refunded, and non-paying bidder stikes are issued to those that do not pay.

It is quite simple to check out these two auctions (as I did) and see that 2
different bidders simply got caught up in the event and tried to out do each other. The loser then bid and won the second set. I always check who is bidding for items I am intersted in, if I see a couple of guys actively bidding against each other I usually stay away.

It is a shame that people would rather question someones reputation with no facts instead of simply looking at the actual situation.

I have recorded many items selling for unusal prices, which is why I began to keep records so I had a better understanding of the marketplace. I have happily provided this information to many forum members when they considered buying or selling an item simply as a reference point.

It is just as simple to be an informed participant, and more productive then to accuse people simply selling an item. I also checked the sellers feedback. I have seen the name, but I don't recall ever doing business with them. I did see positive comments from several forum members I respect which is why I feel this deal was straight.

Some people see a fellow living in a nice house, or driving a nice car and think he is probably a crook. I don't know why, probably a character flaw of some sort. I always thought I wonder how he accomplished that. That is why I follow prices and do my homework. A little preparation can bring results no more effort then blaming the fellow doing what you would like to do.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I can remember when Ebay was an opportunity to conduct auctions and, as a buyer, hopefully to pick up some bargains. Over the years, as it has become more of a retail venue for many seller; bargains have become more and more scarce, and as some have said in this and other threads, some buyers even pay above market retail. For the buyers, we no doubt scan Ebay for hard to find items and also bargains. I don't think this is unreasonable.

I have considered starting auctions at .99 myself in the hopes of generating interest in the item when first listed and the expectation that if there is any demand for it, that bidders would compete up to what the item is worth to them. That is after all what determines market value (what buyers are willing to pay). The variable in Ebay is that you never know who has noticed your item and how many more of the same may have sold recently. Two very enthusiastic buyers (willing to pay market value or above) may find and purchase the same or similar item a week before you post. If there is not greater demand, that may have been the only recent selling window. So there is always a risk...but that cuts both ways in an auction. I don't see an issue with starting an auction at .99. If the item is worth much more and there is a demand, the increasing bids will escalate close or beyond its market value.

 

[thebritfarmer]

I guess it depends on the auctions you go to. They don't normally start at the estimate price either !!!

I have followed many ebay auctions as well albeit farm toys as apposed to toy soldiers and there have been plenty of cases of shell bidding. I am not saying that is the case in this transaction but it does make me wonder.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I guess it depends on the auctions you go to. They don't normally start at the estimate price either !!!

I have followed many ebay auctions as well albeit farm toys as apposed to toy soldiers and there have been plenty of cases of shell bidding. I am not saying that is the case in this transaction but it does make me wonder.

Yes, I have noticed that many of the auctions I lose are always by one bid...one buyer...it is more often than not. I suspect shill bidding does happen; I just don't have the energy to pursue it further. I know what my maximum bid is, and I am satisfied if I get the item for that price, if I lose the auction...oh well. Either I was legitimately outbid, or the seller just doesn't want to sell at that price.

 

[Njja]

I can remember when Ebay was an opportunity to conduct auctions and, as a buyer, hopefully to pick up some bargains. Over the years, as it has become more of a retail venue for many seller; bargains have become more and more scarce, and as some have said in this and other threads, some buyers even pay above market retail. For the buyers, we no doubt scan Ebay for hard to find items and also bargains. I don't think this is unreasonable.

I have considered starting auctions at .99 myself in the hopes of generating interest in the item when first listed and the expectation that if there is any demand for it, that bidders would compete up to what the item is worth to them. That is after all what determines market value (what buyers are willing to pay). The variable in Ebay is that you never know who has noticed your item and how many more of the same may have sold recently. Two very enthusiastic buyers (willing to pay market value or above) may find and purchase the same or similar item a week before you post. If there is not greater demand, that may have been the only recent selling window. So there is always a risk...but that cuts both ways in an auction. I don't see an issue with starting an auction at .99. If the item is worth much more and there is a demand, the increasing bids will escalate close or beyond its market value.

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If you want to run the risk of selling an item that has brought $300 or $400 for a fraction of its value knock yourself out.

Just think with the $2 or $3 you save in listing fees you can easily offset any reduced selling price.

If another seller using the same thought process lists his for .99 say an hour or two before yours ends and you wind up getting $75 for your item you can add the $2 or $3 you saved which should easily put you over the top.

I love the human thought process.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

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If you want to run the risk of selling an item that has brought $300 or $400 for a fraction of its value knock yourself out.

Just think with the $2 or $3 you save in listing fees you can easily offset any reduced selling price.

If another seller using the same thought process lists his for .99 say an hour or two before yours ends and you wind up getting $75 for your item you can add the $2 or $3 you saved which should easily put you over the top.

I love the human thought process.

I never suggested that I was interested in saving two bucks in fees. I said I wondered if a .99 starting point would encourage more potential buyers to place a starting bid.

 

[Njja]

I guess it depends on the auctions you go to. They don't normally start at the estimate price either !!!

I have followed many ebay auctions as well albeit farm toys as apposed to toy soldiers and there have been plenty of cases of shell bidding. I am not saying that is the case in this transaction but it does make me wonder.

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I believe the term is "Shill Bidding" and I'm sure it goes on all over the world in some form on a daily basis.

What has it got to do with the transaction this thread is about?

I would like one simple piece of evidence from anyone to support this nonsense about this situation.

We have a seller with a good reputation.

One buyer with a feedback of 659.......not likely a shill bidder.

Second buyer with a feedback of 37 who competed in an won the second auction.

So where is the "Smoking Gun" that encourages all this talk about
phanton bidders or shell bidders, or whatever other incorrect term you wish to apply to.......shill bidders.

I would add that I would gladly place my Ebay experience and expertise in my sleep to any of the so called "experts" crying foul!

Can we please have one shred of evidence to support this nonsense?

Oh yes of course there is the Oh that couldn't be factor!

Who is advising you guys anyway?

Oh I know.

 

[thebritfarmer]

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If you want to run the risk of selling an item that has brought $300 or $400 for a fraction of its value knock yourself out.

Just think with the $2 or $3 you save in listing fees you can easily offset any reduced selling price.

If another seller using the same thought process lists his for .99 say an hour or two before yours ends and you wind up getting $75 for your item you can add the $2 or $3 you saved which should easily put you over the top.

I love the human thought process.

So those lights are now worth $900 because that is what that set made?

 

[Njja]

I never suggested that I was interested in saving two bucks in fees. I said I wondered if a .99 starting point would encourage more potential buyers to place a starting bid.

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Let me speak as an informed collector. A .99 starting point simply implies to me the sellers places little value on his item. In many cases I simply don't bother with the auction.
I usually begin my searches in various categories using the highest price search. When you scan many different fields time is important so you want to see the best items quickly.

Once I have looked at these I may switch to ending soonest or newly listed. I do not waste my time with lowest cost.

When you start an item at .99 it takes an incredible number of bids to get anywhere the next bid is 1.06

Someone talked about looking for bargins on Ebay, certainly!

I have also often spoken on the fact that you can find almost anything.

I'm also not telling anyone not to list their items for .99 hey do what you like, I'm simply expressing my point of view.

Oh and every now and then I do go in a bid usually $1.01 on some of these auctions so the pin heads can worry that their item may sell for a buck!

 

[Njja]

Yes, I have noticed that many of the auctions I lose are always by one bid...one buyer...it is more often than not. I suspect shill bidding does happen; I just don't have the energy to pursue it further. I know what my maximum bid is, and I am satisfied if I get the item for that price, if I lose the auction...oh well. Either I was legitimately outbid, or the seller just doesn't want to sell at that price.

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Yes, everytime I lose an auction it is certainly a shill bidder, or the easter bunny or professor quizz.

I know for a fact its not my fault!

Do you honestly believe sellers would go to the trouble of dealing with ebay to recover their selling fees?

Let me tell you it is a real hassel, you have to inform ebay a bidder has not paid for an item then wait for ebay to contact them. Then have them agree that they do not want to complete the auction and sign off to refund the selling fees. Listing fees are lost. If the seller does not respond after you wait a certain length of time he gets a non-paying bidder strike and your selling fees are refunded with a loss of your listing fees.

I have only had this happen 2 or 3 times in over 2000 transactions, but I can tell you it is a pain in the neck.

Years ago there were a lot of "New" people with low feedback popping up on ebay, and I have no doubt items were bid up, but ebay made short work of the process and you do not see a lot of people with low feedback bidding. If you check out a bidder in an auction you can see a 30 day sumary of his bidding activity. You can no longer see his ID but you can be sure that ebay is watching his activity.

Its all about being an informed collector, if you know the value of what you seek, and have a price you are willing to pay you should have no problem unless you get carried away......and whose fault is that?

 

[Njja]

So those lights are now worth $900 because that is what that set made?

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Great Question! The fast answer is NO! But the price has been recorded, I had a set go off a few days later for $222.50 on auction.

I then sold another set for $295, so I would put the current value at $250 to $295. This is of course simply an estimation. Variables would include who the seller was, condition, shipping limitations, and of course availablity.

This is a unique piece one that makes the hobby interesting. It had little attention, is very nice to look at in a scene and is no longer available.

Its future value will be determined by collector interest, and opportunity to obtain the piece.

If 10 guys list theirs tomorrow starting at .99 someone is going to wind up with a set below original cost!

 

[Iron Brigade]

Actually, I understand the $0.99 Ebay start prices...it is just an intergral part of Ebay selling psychology. A buyer will think "that is an outrageously cheap price for an item, and I might get it for cheap." While this does occasionally happen, there are usually enough bidders that the natural market value of the item will escalate the price in the auction. The $0.99 starting price is a great way of getting buyers' attention in a list of thousands of items. Once they commit to bidding, the chances of them actually competing against other bidders is much higher. If I post an auction for a collector's figure worth $50 and my starting price is $0.99, what are the chances it won't make it to the $40 range?...again, demand regulating just how high it will go. If you have a couple of eager bidders, you may find that despite a $0.99 starting price, the figure sells above market value. Beginning bids are the most important. Have you ever increased your maximum bid once you have seen you have been outbid? I think most of us probably have...just part of the psychology of the auction.

Dear "Scarlet Pimerel":
I sort of understand the idea that eBay recommends of starting with a very low price to get more bidders. But, if I paid say about $200.00 for a certain set I would hate to see it sell for only 99 cents or only $20.00 with an initial eBay listing price of 99 cents to $20.00. A higher starting price with a bit higher eBay listing fee is "cheap insurance" to save one from selling an item that only gets 1% to 10% of your original cost. At that rate you might as well just keep it!
Gary / "Iron Brigade" 02/20/2010

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

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Yes, everytime I lose an auction it is certainly a shill bidder, or the easter bunny or professor quizz.

I know for a fact its not my fault!

Do you honestly believe sellers would go to the trouble of dealing with ebay to recover their selling fees?

Let me tell you it is a real hassel, you have to inform ebay a bidder has not paid for an item then wait for ebay to contact them. Then have them agree that they do not want to complete the auction and sign off to refund the selling fees. Listing fees are lost. If the seller does not respond after you wait a certain length of time he gets a non-paying bidder strike and your selling fees are refunded with a loss of your listing fees.

I have only had this happen 2 or 3 times in over 2000 transactions, but I can tell you it is a pain in the neck.

Years ago there were a lot of "New" people with low feedback popping up on ebay, and I have no doubt items were bid up, but ebay made short work of the process and you do not see a lot of people with low feedback bidding. If you check out a bidder in an auction you can see a 30 day sumary of his bidding activity. You can no longer see his ID but you can be sure that ebay is watching his activity.

Its all about being an informed collector, if you know the value of what you seek, and have a price you are willing to pay you should have no problem unless you get carried away......and whose fault is that?

I'm curious why you are so hostile.

I have read this thread from the beginning and watched you snap at folks for sharing their experiences in auction. I have not seen anthing here accusing you of shady selling practices, yet as a self-proclaimed expect on Ebay and the market value of everything worthwhile, you seem to think that no one else's experiences are of any value. This thread has evolved from a notifaction of one item selling at an unusually high price to a discussion about the nature of online auctions...I don't think that is unreasonable...and frankly, I'd like to hear everyone's opinion here without them being ridiculed because you happen to disagree with them.