A memory for Navalny (1 Viewer)

[Poppo]

A memory for Alexei Navalny, the main hope for democracy in Russia, a martyr killed today by Putin's barbarity.

 

[Combat]

A memory for Alexei Navalny, the main hope for democracy in Russia, a martyr killed today by Putin's barbarity.

He is now a political martyr, and we can hope that his legacy leads to change for the better down the road for Russia. Revolutions can spread quickly once they begin. With that said the hypocrisy of the current US government is unreal in calling out Putin. Imagine locking up political opponents. And giving them the Epstein treatment. Sound familiar to anyone? Putin is an amateur compared to the record of US politicians dating back to Vietnam to the current day.

 

[tdubel]

He is now a political martyr, and we can hope that his legacy leads to change for the better down the road for Russia. Revolutions can spread quickly once they begin. With that said the hypocrisy of the current US government is unreal in calling out Putin. Imagine locking up political opponents. And giving them the Epstein treatment. Sound familiar to anyone? Putin is an amateur compared to the record of US politicians dating back to Vietnam to the current day.

I agree, in that we have always in some ways tried to hide it (although lately that is certainly not the case). Putin has never hid who he is or what his goals are. I can't stand the press covered outrage that we continue to see from all others. Putin has never said he is anything else than what he is. He has never hidden his agenda, beliefs or his methods of how he plans on obtaining said goals. The outrage is a day late, dollar short.
TD

 

[Panzer ace]

I agree, in that we have always in some ways tried to hide it (although lately that is certainly not the case). Putin has never hid who he is or what his goals are. I can't stand the press covered outrage that we continue to see from all others. Putin has never said he is anything else than what he is. He has never hidden his agenda, beliefs or his methods of how he plans on obtaining said goals. The outrage is a day late, dollar short.
TD

Tom:

Great post.

In my view our elected officials (“leaders”) hide behind a closet anonymity while they vote based on how much they get from the lobbyists who keep them in power.

Putin stabs you in the chest at the scheduled knife fight of dictatorship while our leadership stabs you in the back at the supposed celebration of freedom.

-Jason

 

[tdubel]

Tom:

Great post.

In my view our elected officials (“leaders”) hide behind a closet anonymity while they vote based on how much they get from the lobbyists who keep them in power.

Putin stabs you in the chest at the scheduled knife fight of dictatorship while our leadership stabs you in the back at the supposed celebration of freedom.

-Jason

Last sentence is probably the best summation of our current State that I have ever read. Thanks Jason!

 

[gk5717]

So all these politicians are condemning Putin. Fantastic! That will change absolutely nothing. If this guy is dumb enough to go back to Russia what did he expect? A parade? This is Russia's affair not ours.
Do you think if Putin condemned Biden for using the DOJ to go after Trump Biden would say "Oh we better back off". This is not the 50's & 60's where the USA thought it had to intervene in any country that did not have our democratic government. Can you say Vietnam?
Unless our national security is at risk, mind your own business.

 

[Poppo]

Regarding Navalny, don't confuse stupidity with courage even if we can't understand it...The USA is the main part of NATO, right? If Ukraine falls, the Baltics and Poland are at risk. Many Americans don't even know what the Baltic countries are, but if they were attacked and America didn't intervene, it would be the end of American influence in the world and a geopolitical defeat for the entire West. And it would be the beginning of an era of ever more extensive wars and it seems difficult to me that the United States will be able not to participate in them....The USA is by nature protectionist and not interventionist; Even in World War II they only went to war with Germany after Hitler declared war on America. But now there is NATO which commits its members to mutual aid in the event of an attack. And moreover, the only time that Article 5 of the treaty was invoked, it was the USA that invoked it on the occasion of the attack on the twin towers. Let's not forget history.

 

[Combat]

Regarding Navalny, don't confuse stupidity with courage even if we can't understand it...The USA is the main part of NATO, right? If Ukraine falls, the Baltics and Poland are at risk. Many Americans don't even know what the Baltic countries are, but if they were attacked and America didn't intervene, it would be the end of American influence in the world and a geopolitical defeat for the entire West. And it would be the beginning of an era of ever more extensive wars and it seems difficult to me that the United States will be able not to participate in them....The USA is by nature protectionist and not interventionist; Even in World War II they only went to war with Germany after Hitler declared war on America. But now there is NATO which commits its members to mutual aid in the event of an attack. And moreover, the only time that Article 5 of the treaty was invoked, it was the USA that invoked it on the occasion of the attack on the twin towers. Let's not forget history.

That's a rehash of Cold War fear mongering and the domino theory. If you are going to invoke history, then recall how that worked out for the US. Billions spent and millions killed in places like Vietnam for no purpose. If Russia can't even overrun a small region of Ukraine, they are no threat to other countries. And they have absolutely no desire to do so. The US has been tricked into paying for the defense of Europe for almost a hundred years. NATO countries don't even contribute their own share. They must fall on the ground laughing at the stupidity of the US politicians (many of whom want to foot the bill because it allows them to control an enormous source of funding to the military contractors who kick it back for their campaigns). There is no more offensive justification for a war than that the US is using the people of Ukraine as cannon fodder to exhaust Russia. A "good investment." Imagine how the people in Ukraine - who are dying and having their homes destroyed - feel about that investment.

 

[Poppo]

That's a rehash of Cold War fear mongering and the domino theory. If you are going to invoke history, then recall how that worked out for the US. Billions spent and millions killed in places like Vietnam for no purpose. If Russia can't even overrun a small region of Ukraine, they are no threat to other countries. And they have absolutely no desire to do so. The US has been tricked into paying for the defense of Europe for almost a hundred years. NATO countries don't even contribute their own share. They must fall on the ground laughing at the stupidity of the US politicians (many of whom want to foot the bill because it allows them to control an enormous source of funding to the military contractors who kick it back for their campaigns). There is no more offensive justification for a war than that the US is using the people of Ukraine as cannon fodder to exhaust Russia. A "good investment." Imagine how the people in Ukraine - who are dying and having their homes destroyed - feel about that investment.

Congratulations, you have learned Putin's propaganda perfectly. The same amplified by that type who is linked mafia-wise to his boss Putin...

The NATO nations don't laugh at all at the idea of an ignorant lunatic possibly becoming president of the US.

Some NATO countries such as Poland, the Baltic countries and others have exceeded the required spending quota and most have fallen in line; only a minority of which Italy has not yet reached the expected 2 percent of NATO spending.

Then, you must know that the American arms industry has grown by 17.5 percent since this war, from the purchases of American weapons in a grand part by the Europeans, but either you don't know it, or you are in bad faith...

As for the dead Ukrainians, if Putin occupies Ukraine there will be deaths, torture, concentration camps, looting,ethnic cleansing....But you cynically mix economic interests and hairy morality like your political representatives do in a confusing way...


PS:The people of Ukraine ask for only one thing: more weapons and ammunition

 

[jrsteel]

My God, you Trumpers are a bunch of morons!

 

[Combat]

Congratulations, you have learned Putin's propaganda perfectly. The same amplified by that type who is linked mafia-wise to his boss Putin...

The NATO nations don't laugh at all at the idea of an ignorant lunatic possibly becoming president of the US.

Some NATO countries such as Poland, the Baltic countries and others have exceeded the required spending quota and most have fallen in line; only a minority of which Italy has not yet reached the expected 2 percent of NATO spending.

Then, you must know that the American arms industry has grown by 17.5 percent since this war, from the purchases of American weapons in a grand part by the Europeans, but either you don't know it, or you are in bad faith...

As for the dead Ukrainians, if Putin occupies Ukraine there will be deaths, torture, concentration camps, looting,ethnic cleansing....But you cynically mix economic interests and hairy morality like your political representatives do in a confusing way...


PS:The people of Ukraine ask for only one thing: more weapons and ammunition

"Some NATO countries...have fallen in line." Wow. They must be really worried about Putin. LOL. Here are the facts:

"According to NATO, 11 countries, including the U.S., are spending at least 2 percent of their GDP on their defense. Nineteen other countries do not meet that threshold."

In other words over half the NATO countries are not even paying their miniscule share. And Russia can't even overrun small regions of the Ukraine after two years and counting but they are suddenly the Cold War threat. Better send more billions to those military contractors since that worked out so well in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. Some people never learn.

 

[tdubel]

My God, you Trumpers are a bunch of morons!

Kind of confused and insulted at the same time. I don't think this really has anything to do with this issue. I am not a Trumper, but I am opposed to continuously sending money to the Ukraine War. My feelings are more directed at the Middle East. IMO , eradicating Terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah are better investments in this current situation we find ourselves in. That is where my outrage lies and has nothing to do with any political party per se and especially nothing to do with Trump. I believe in eradicating terrorists who have historically attacked US interests continuously since I was born. There is zero gray area here and zero justification for letting them to continue to roam this earth despite the bs propaganda.

Is Putin a bad guy, YES, but I never had any perception he was not. Do I think we should have charged in there in the beginning, diplomatically threatened him with a real threat and prevented this war, YES. But we unfortunately didn't and after sending an incalculable sum, we have zero results except the continued battering and systematic destruction of the Ukraine. Unless we are willing to commit our military might in the form of a credible threat, I don't see where continually sending this money and arms is doing anything.

Just my opinion, but I believe it is based in fact, morals and all.
TD

 

[tdubel]

"Some NATO countries...have fallen in line." Wow. They must be really worried about Putin. LOL. Here are the facts:

"According to NATO, 11 countries, including the U.S., are spending at least 2 percent of their GDP on their defense. Nineteen other countries do not meet that threshold."

In other words over half the NATO countries are not even paying their miniscule share. And Russia can't even overrun small regions of the Ukraine after two years and counting but they are suddenly the Cold War threat. Better send more billions to those military contractors since that worked out so well in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. Some people never learn.

Doug, unfortunately speaking, your facts are that - facts. It is a sad state of rinse wash repeat or I like to say, the definition of insanity.
Tom

 

[joesgis]

My God, you Trumpers are a bunch of morons!

That's a silly, shallow assumption. I think folks here can think for the themselves and do not worship at the altar of any individual.

 

[tdubel]

That's a silly, shallow assumption. I think folks here can think for the themselves and do not worship at the altar of any individual.

Joe
truth be told, I do believe your statement is spot on. Much to some people's chagrin, the toy soldier world is far from a bunch of trumpers. Actually IMO, contains a lot of independent intelligent thinkers not bound by a political party. It is one of the few areas where you can have a civilized (most of the time) discussion on politics. Which is how it should be in an intelligent world.

Emotion needs to be left out of it and factual discourse should take over. That is where we have gone off the rails, if we stick to facts, true hard facts, we would be a lot better off IMO.

TD

 

[The Military Workshop]

What happened to Navalny is obviously not good.

But then again the US justice system and three letter agencies are hardly setting an example to the world anymore. Unless of course you prefer the methods of dictators.

DOJ, FBI and CIA are compromised. Good luck getting a fair hearing in certain states if you are on wrong side of politics.

J6 persecutions are one of the most outrageous abuses of power I have seen in my lifetime.

 

[Combat]

Anyone who express doubt as to the wisdom of continuing to fund an endless war in Ukraine with no plan for ending it is criticized as supporting Putin or even collaborating with Russia. That is a false choice. More than one thing can be true. Putin can be a bad guy and Russia in the wrong but there is no apparent US interest in continuing to fund a war with no plan for winning or ending it. We've made that mistake all too often in many similar conflicts. What is the end game here? How long would advocates for Ukraine suggest that the US fund this war? Twenty years as in Afghanistan and longer in Iraq? Did the situation improve by sticking it out there or in Vietnam? Some miracle might occur like Putin dying or being overthrown but that is not a strategy. If Ukraine does not want to negotiate an end to the war and wants it to go and on and on for years in the hope that the Russians eventually tire of it, that is their choice, and they bear the consequences.

This war is supposed to be about saving democracy. How it does that is not clear, but Zelensky has suspended the election that was supposed to occur next month. No media outlet makes reference to this. Why does he need to suspend the election like a dictator to save democracy? If the people of Ukraine support his policy of endless war, why not have an election? He will win. Even during the US Civil War, we had an election. The only reason to suspend an election is if the powers in charge think there is a chance that they may lose.

 

[marco55]

My God, you Trumpers are a bunch of morons!

It never fails it's always Trumps fault, No matter what.
Mark

 

[jrsteel]

If you guys were around in 1940, you’d probably be blaming FDR for Hitler starting WW2. You would’ve been against all aid to Britain because there’s no way they can fend off Germany. Just let Germany take over Britain. That’s Europe’s problem.
The only way there can be negotiations to end the war in Ukraine is if Ukraine is in a position of strength. If they’re losing on the battlefield, what kind of settlement could they get?
Don’t worry. If your orange clown hero wins the election, I’m sure he’ll cut off all aid to Ukraine. He’ll probably start sending weapons to Russia.

 

[marco55]

No I don't believe that. It just seems that all this money is being wasted. I have great sympathy for the Ukrainian people and hope they acheive victory but it doesn't seem like anything is moving forward. And it doen't seem like most of the NATO members are doing too much to help them.
Mark