A memory for Navalny (2 Viewers)

[tdubel]

If you guys were around in 1940, you’d probably be blaming FDR for Hitler starting WW2. You would’ve been against all aid to Britain because there’s no way they can fend off Germany. Just let Germany take over Britain. That’s Europe’s problem.
The only way there can be negotiations to end the war in Ukraine is if Ukraine is in a position of strength. If they’re losing on the battlefield, what kind of settlement could they get?
Don’t worry. If your orange clown hero wins the election, I’m sure he’ll cut off all aid to Ukraine. He’ll probably start sending weapons to Russia.

I am still really confused by your equating the responses here with Trump. I can tell you that you are flat out wrong. Not that this matters, but I am not a fan of our current Political choice on either side of the aisle and it goes WAY past the Presidential position.

Furthermore, your analogy is way off. The two have nothing whatsoever in common in my opinion past the word war. I think if you would take the time to read some of the posts here rather than blindly profess your feelings about a politician, this would be a more meaningful discussion.

My case in point, to me, the Middle East in general is more of a threat to world stability and the treatment of Israel is paramount to peace. If they fail in any manner, the repercussions for the USA are far greater than the evil of Putin.

Regarding the Ukraine, again, if we were to put forth a position of strength that goes beyond ammunition, we could bring Putin to the table. We have not done so. As a result, in my opinion, we have actually inadvertently strengthened him.

In conclusion, I believe you can read that none of what I said above has anything to do with Donald Trump and some of my position I believe is in direct contradiction to his beliefs and I am good with that.

Finally, in other words, please add something meaningful to the conversation rather than baseless accusations and inflammatory statements. Please save them for the CNN or Fox News message boards. The discussion here has nothing to do with Trump at the end of the day. It has a lot to do with our Government as a whole on both sides of the proverbial aisle.

Tom

 

[jrsteel]

No I don't believe that. It just seems that all this money is being wasted. I have great sympathy for the Ukrainian people and hope they acheive victory but it doesn't seem like anything is moving forward. And it doen't seem like most of the NATO members are doing too much to help them.
Mark

European Union countries have given Ukraine 27 billion dollars so far. Do you know the only time Article 5 of NATO was enacted was after 9/11. Countries like Poland sent troops to Afghanistan to support us. And they didn’t send us a bill for that.

 

[jrsteel]

I am still really confused by your equating the responses here with Trump. I can tell you that you are flat out wrong. Not that this matters, but I am not a fan of our current Political choice on either side of the aisle and it goes WAY past the Presidential position.

Furthermore, your analogy is way off. The two have nothing whatsoever in common in my opinion past the word war. I think if you would take the time to read some of the posts here rather than blindly profess your feelings about a politician, this would be a more meaningful discussion.

My case in point, to me, the Middle East in general is more of a threat to world stability and the treatment of Israel is paramount to peace. If they fail in any manner, the repercussions for the USA are far greater than the evil of Putin.

Regarding the Ukraine, again, if we were to put forth a position of strength that goes beyond ammunition, we could bring Putin to the table. We have not done so. As a result, in my opinion, we have actually inadvertently strengthened him.

In conclusion, I believe you can read that none of what I said above has anything to do with Donald Trump and some of my position I believe is in direct contradiction to his beliefs and I am good with that.

Finally, in other words, please add something meaningful to the conversation rather than baseless accusations and inflammatory statements. Please save them for the CNN or Fox News message boards. The discussion here has nothing to do with Trump at the end of the day. It has a lot to do with our Government as a whole on both sides of the proverbial aisle.

Tom

Trump has everything to do with it! I agree with you about the Middle East. Who’s holding up the bill that includes aid to Israel? Mike Johnson is, on orders from Trump. He killed the whole Border bill that also included aid for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan just because he wants to use immigration as an election issue.

 

[tdubel]

Trump has everything to do with it! I agree with you about the Middle East. Who’s holding up the bill that includes aid to Israel? Mike Johnson is, on orders from Trump. He killed the whole Border bill that also included aid for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan just because he wants to use immigration as an election issue.

Really not picking on you nor is this personal, but your statement is literally what most of our problems are here in the USA. Blind hatred of one side or the other. The issues go far beyond Trump and in all reality lie at both sides of the aisle. Yes there are a lot of catalysts, but there is far more ingrained problems sitting in the halls of Congress with both D's and R's next to their names. The Israel aid for instance is held up for reasons well beyond Trump.

It is not all one's fault versus the other. I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that if you remove Trump from this equation, there would be another focused reason about why this aid or that aid is not passed. There is a lot of disagreement on a lot of issues that go way past the Presidential direction. I am 100% convinced that Ukraine aid would be in limbo regardless of control here. Additionally, knowing that all this aid is doing is prolonging a war, why not collectively re-evaluate our response and get to a strategy that through strong diplomacy and threat, Russia would be on the defensive? In other words, find a more appropriate alternative versus throwing away money.

It is an election year, so our proverbial free press is on full court "press" on every "story" to lay blame. Look at all the headlines out there, it is darn hard to find one fact in any of them.

Finally - look at your statement that he killed the Border Bill that included this aid. Common sense - WHY would a supposed Border bill contain foreign aid to Countries that have nothing to do with our Border crisis? Way too much political maneuvering and no common sense. That is not all on the R's. Make no mistake, the D's were just as much at fault here. Anyone with any shred of intelligence would look at that bill and ask the same question? Why are we doing this? Why not separate bills, why all this contingency? I will tell you why - finds a reason for someone to say "NO".

I have always said that US Politicians think the populace are stupid and unfortunately IMO they are correct. How else do we arrive at these absurd idiotic crossroads on a daily basis? Answer - the majority of Americans are either stupid or simply don't care. Either route ends the same.

Tom

 

[jrsteel]

Really not picking on you nor is this personal, but your statement is literally what most of our problems are here in the USA. Blind hatred of one side or the other. The issues go far beyond Trump and in all reality lie at both sides of the aisle. Yes there are a lot of catalysts, but there is far more ingrained problems sitting in the halls of Congress with both D's and R's next to their names. The Israel aid for instance is held up for reasons well beyond Trump.

It is not all one's fault versus the other. I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that if you remove Trump from this equation, there would be another focused reason about why this aid or that aid is not passed. There is a lot of disagreement on a lot of issues that go way past the Presidential direction. I am 100% convinced that Ukraine aid would be in limbo regardless of control here. Additionally, knowing that all this aid is doing is prolonging a war, why not collectively re-evaluate our response and get to a strategy that through strong diplomacy and threat, Russia would be on the defensive? In other words, find a more appropriate alternative versus throwing away money.

It is an election year, so our proverbial free press is on full court "press" on every "story" to lay blame. Look at all the headlines out there, it is darn hard to find one fact in any of them.

Finally - look at your statement that he killed the Border Bill that included this aid. Common sense - WHY would a supposed Border bill contain foreign aid to Countries that have nothing to do with our Border crisis? Way too much political maneuvering and no common sense. That is not all on the R's. Make no mistake, the D's were just as much at fault here. Anyone with any shred of intelligence would look at that bill and ask the same question? Why are we doing this? Why not separate bills, why all this contingency? I will tell you why - finds a reason for someone to say "NO".

I have always said that US Politicians think the populace are stupid and unfortunately IMO they are correct. How else do we arrive at these absurd idiotic crossroads on a daily basis? Answer - the majority of Americans are either stupid or simply don't care. Either route ends the same.

Tom

The border bill contained Ukraine aid because that’s what the Republican congress demanded. They wouldn’t pass aid without a border bill. They got what they wanted, negotiated by a conservative senator from Oklahoma, and killed the bill.

 

[gk5717]

Since Trump's name has been bantered about. A few weeks ago a certain toy soldier dealer in the UK, S.W., posted something negative about Trump on facebook. I don't remember what exactly it was but I responded to the effect. You are commenting about our politicians and you still have a king! Well that really set him off. He proceeded to tell me how Trump was a racist, rapist and a few other uncomplimentary remarks further calling me and I quote "a dumb pr---." How would someone living in the UK either care or have first hand knowledge of the USA that he feels he can make comments like that? It's all from him listening to the one sided news.
Oh I immediately unfriended him being the dumb pr--- that I am.

 

[tdubel]

The border bill contained Ukraine aid because that’s what the Republican congress demanded. They wouldn’t pass aid without a border bill. They got what they wanted, negotiated by a conservative senator from Oklahoma, and killed the bill.

That is a rather simplistic and headline grabbing factoid you posted, of course, there is a heck of a lot more to the story regarding political wrangling BS on both sides which you have failed to post. Again, this is systemic of the problem in America - we write the facts to fit our narrative instead of simply analyzing the actual facts. The true fact is our Congress is full of literal BS on both sides, they are inept, unable to reach any consensus and it is always one side blaming the other for the sake of headlines. If we can ever call that out, then maybe we get somewhere, BUT as long as press driven headline Kool Aid is continually consumed by the American Public - hence we are where we are. And that Is Trump or NO Trump.

As in Dragnet - just the facts.
Tom

 

[marco55]

Trump has everything to do with it! I agree with you about the Middle East. Who’s holding up the bill that includes aid to Israel? Mike Johnson is, on orders from Trump. He killed the whole Border bill that also included aid for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan just because he wants to use immigration as an election issue.

That was a bad border bill. Allow 5000 people a DAY in, not counting kids, DHS head to have powers to increase it. Lock in laws that would tie the president's hand which you can almost bet would not be good for the US. Nobody with any wit would vote for that.
Mark

 

[jrsteel]

That is a rather simplistic and headline grabbing factoid you posted, of course, there is a heck of a lot more to the story regarding political wrangling BS on both sides which you have failed to post. Again, this is systemic of the problem in America - we write the facts to fit our narrative instead of simply analyzing the actual facts. The true fact is our Congress is full of literal BS on both sides, they are inept, unable to reach any consensus and it is always one side blaming the other for the sake of headlines. If we can ever call that out, then maybe we get somewhere, BUT as long as press driven headline Kool Aid is continually consumed by the American Public - hence we are where we are. And that Is Trump or NO Trump.

As in Dragnet - just the facts.

Tom

Here’s a fact, both sides did reach a consensus on the border bill. It was negotiated for months by Republicans and Democrats in the senate. It was sent to the House and it was killed. What are your “facts” as to why Johnson killed the bill??

 

[Julie]

Politics of any country not allowed guys. Please keep that in mind when starting threads, even in the chat lounge. Until I am back from vacation I am going to close threads and advise Mods to do the same as needed.

Julie