Aircraft (2 Viewers)

[uksubs]

That would be an imposing looking plane, but for me, a Typhoon or Tempest would be one of my first wishes. I'd go a 262 as well.

Are have some of that

 

[uksubs]

The Typhoon did not prove to be very effective for its intended fighter role and was mainly used for ground attack.

Done a great job in Normandy Oz & probable the best ground attack aircraft in 1944/45

 

[uksubs]

It certainly never was a spitfire or P51 but, as a ground attack aircraft it was bettered by none in WWII IMO
Mitch

Well said Mitch

 

[uksubs]

As a ground attack aircraft the Typhoon was easily bettered by the Tempest, but I would say that the P-47 was superior to both, especially in terms of durability which is an important consideration in that role. However, the Russian Il-2/10 is often considered the best ground attack aircraft of WWII.

Oz get your facts straight in ETO 1944/45 the Tempest was used as a fighter with the Spitfire Mk9 & mk 14 , ground attack was left to the Typhoon
from what I've been reading on the forum your seem to like to put the British down why is that
I'm very proud of what all are Allies did !

 

[uksubs]

Also its phycological effect on the enemy was superb,operating above Normandy in 'cab ranks' the German Tank crews who once felt almost invulnerable were now the prey and death could come at any moment. This led to many German Tank movements taking place at night. Those ground attack crews did a wonderful job in destroying Nazi armour and keeping their heads down at all times

Rob

well said Rob
flying them Typhoon low level was a high risk job & I know the odds of surviving were very low

 

[OzDigger]

Oz get your facts straight in ETO 1944/45 the Tempest was used as a fighter with the Spitfire Mk9 & mk 14 , ground attack was left to the Typhoon
from what I've been reading on the forum your seem to like to put the British down why is that
I'm very proud of what all are Allies did !

The Tempest was good enough to function as a Fighter. However you are wrong in suggesting the Tempest never served in the Ground Attack role as the Tempest FB-II (Fighter Bomber Mark II) variant did indeed replace the Typhoon in that role as the war progressed.

As for your other accusation regarding my attitude towards the British, your belief is as incorrect as your statement about the Tempest.

 

[uksubs]

The Tempest was good enough to function as a Fighter. However you are wrong in suggesting the Tempest never served in the Ground Attack role as the Tempest FB-II (Fighter Bomber Mark II) variant did indeed replace the Typhoon in that role as the war progressed.

As for your other accusation regarding my attitude towards the British, your belief is as incorrect as your statement about the Tempest.

Hi Oz The Hawker Tempest Mk 2 never saw action in WW2
The Hawker Tempest V was the only one to see action in WW2 from 1944/45 when it was used as a Fighter as I said in my post so I am correct & you are wrong stick to the facts & don't move the goal post mate

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I hope this isn't going to become a tempest in a tea pot

Terry

 

[Wraith]

I hope this isn't going to become a tempest in a tea pot

Terry

I wouldn't have thought so. The Hawker Teapot didn't see operational service until the early 50's, and was quickly withdrawn from active service when teabags were found to be largely ineffective against modern armour.

 

[OzDigger]

Hi Oz The Hawker Tempest Mk 2 never saw action in WW2
The Hawker Tempest V was the only one to see action in WW2 from 1944/45 when it was used as a Fighter as I said in my post so I am correct & you are wrong stick to the facts & don't move the goal post mate

My mistake, I was actually refering to the Tempest V Series II which was the most numerous of the Tempest variants in WWII, having a Series II Napier Sabre engine. Yes it was designed as a Fighter but until the end of the war this aircraft also operated as a Fighter-Bomber in 'cab rank' patrols in support of allied ground forces.

Here's some info describing its weapon options, please note the inclusion of 60lb Rockets and Bombs: http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/hawktempest.html#hawktempest0

 

[Rob]

I wouldn't have thought so. The Hawker Teapot didn't see operational service until the early 50's, and was quickly withdrawn from active service when teabags were found to be largely ineffective against modern armour.

The early version with the Cadbury engine was a disaster,known as the chocolate teapot it barely got off the ground.

Rob

 

[uksubs]

My mistake, I was actually refering to the Tempest V Series II which was the most numerous of the Tempest variants in WWII, having a Series II Napier Sabre engine. Yes it was designed as a Fighter but until the end of the war this aircraft also operated as a Fighter-Bomber in 'cab rank' patrols in support of allied ground forces.

Hi Oz
All planes are tested with different weapons mate but like I said before in ETO Normandy to the end of the war the Tempest was used as a fighter as it was that good even shooting down Me 262 + V1 , the Typhoon was used cab rank petrols
I've got loads of books on the Hawker Tempest & Typhoon & there operational records & after work are look to see how many bomber mission the Tempest did if that helps

 

[OzDigger]

My mistake, I was actually refering to the Tempest V Series II which was the most numerous of the Tempest variants in WWII, having a Series II Napier Sabre engine. Yes it was designed as a Fighter but until the end of the war this aircraft also operated as a Fighter-Bomber in 'cab rank' patrols in support of allied ground forces.

Hi Oz
All planes are tested with different weapons mate but like I said before in ETO Normandy to the end of the war the Tempest was used as a fighter as it was that good even shooting down Me 262 + V1 , the Typhoon was used cab rank petrols
I've got loads of books on the Hawker Tempest & Typhoon & there operational records & after work are look to see how many bomber mission the Tempest did if that helps

I have very few books on allied aircraft, mostly on Nasty Nazi aircraft I got the info on the Tempest V also being used in the ground attack role from British Warplanes of World War Two edited by Daniel J. March.

 

[uksubs]

I have very few books on allied aircraft, mostly on Nasty Nazi aircraft I got the info on the Tempest V also being used in the ground attack role from British Warplanes of World War Two edited by Daniel J. March.

It would be good if you could back it up with some information Oz like maybe some dates when Hawker Tempest done a ground attack mission or even better some photos of a bomb up Tempest over ETO 1944/45 ?

I found this witch make good reading
The Tempest V was the highest-scoring Allied aircraft type over yet another German jet powered weapon-the V-1 cruise missile. V-1's, also known as buzz bombs or doodlebugs to the British public, flew at high speeds at low altitudes where aerodynamic conditions prevented most aircraft from obtaining their maximum speed, but not the Tempest! The power of the Tempest's Napier Sabre 2,200+ hp engine allowed it to overtake a cruising V-1 like a speeding freight train and enable its pilot to blow the malignant robot out of the sky with its four internal 20mm cannons. If the cannons jammed, the RAF pilot could fly his aircraft under one of the V-1's wings and let aerodynamic pressure flip the flying drone into the ground. Over 600 V-1's were destroyed by Tempests during WWII. This feat becomes more fascinating when it is known that only a fraction of all available Tempests were deployed in defense of the Home Islands compared to other frontline British aircraft. No less than 30 and no greater than 114 Tempests were used by the ADGB Command (Air Defense of Great Britain) at any one time against the V-1 menace. Some other notable high speed RAF aircraft used against the V-1 were the British twin-engine jet fighter Gloster Meteor, the renowned DeHaviland Mosquito day and night fighter, and the superlative Supermarine Spitfire.



The V-1 and V-2 menace the U.K. faced can be related to America's current terrorism crisis. Hitler's "V" weapons were the first examples of "terror weapons" used on a mass scale to kill an enemy civilian population. Neither the V-1 nor the V-2 could be aimed at any specific target, and the primary purpose of these two weapons was to destroy in any way possible and spread terror. Fortunately, the Hawker Typhoon and Tempest helped defeat these powerful threats from the German Luftwaffe. The Typhoon was used in ground attack missions against V-1 launching sites and the Tempest was used in air interdiction missions against airborne V-1's. Both of these aircraft contributed to the inevitable Allied victory steamroller in 15 months from D-Day to V-E Day.

 

[uksubs]

My mistake, I was actually refering to the Tempest V Series II which was the most numerous of the Tempest variants in WWII, having a Series II Napier Sabre engine. Yes it was designed as a Fighter but until the end of the war this aircraft also operated as a Fighter-Bomber in 'cab rank' patrols in support of allied ground forces.

Here's some info describing its weapon options, please note the inclusion of 60lb Rockets and Bombs: http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/hawktempest.html#hawktempest0

If you read your link it does not saying anything about a Hawker Tempest V/ series II in the ground attack role in ETO
Like I said before all planes are tested to see what weapons they can us & carry but that still does not prove that they were used in ETO 1944/5
Spitfire Mk9 & mk 14 carried more bombs !

 

[OzDigger]

If you read your link it does not saying anything about a Hawker Tempest V/ series II in the ground attack role in ETO
Like I said before all planes are tested to see what weapons they can us & carry but that still does not prove that they were used in ETO 1944/5
Spitfire Mk9 & mk 14 carried more bombs !

The use of the Tempest V in the ground attack role in WWII is well documented in print and on the internet. Most people assume it is a Typhoon rather than its much improved decendant.

For example: http://www.hawkertempest.se/WorldWar2.htm

 

[Spitfrnd]

The Tempest was designed as an air superiority aircraft and that was indeed its best use. In that regard, it was the Typhoon that should have been. No question, as that link illustrates, most British pilots who flew it fell in love with the Aircraft's power and grace. It was not as agile as a Mark XIV but more than a match for the German aircraft it faced. Ironically, the top Tempest ace was Squadron Leader David C. "Foobs" Fairbanks, an American who had joined the RCAF. He was credited with 12 kills before he became a POW in early 1945. Of course the most famous Tempest ace is Pierre Clostermann, who accounted for 29 or so enemy aircraft, mostly fighters, and many flying his Mark V Tempest which he dubbed "Le Grand Charles". His account of his air war experience, The Big Show, gives a very detailed and interesting view of the air war in Europe from just after the BoB through the end of the war.

The Tempest was indeed used heavily for ground attack, as were most allied fighters late in the war. The fact is there were many more important targets on the ground than in the air at that point. The Tempest's four 20 mm cannons and great power to weight ratio made it rather good in that role.

 

[uksubs]

The Tempest was designed as an air superiority aircraft and that was indeed its best use. In that regard, it was the Typhoon that should have been. No question, as that link illustrates, most British pilots who flew it fell in love with the Aircraft's power and grace. It was not as agile as a Mark XIV but more than a match for the German aircraft it faced. Ironically, the top Tempest ace was Squadron Leader David C. "Foobs" Fairbanks, an American who had joined the RCAF. He was credited with 12 kills before he became a POW in early 1945. Of course the most famous Tempest ace is Pierre Clostermann, who accounted for 29 or so enemy aircraft, mostly fighters, and many flying his Mark V Tempest which he dubbed "Le Grand Charles". His account of his air war experience, The Big Show, gives a very detailed and interesting view of the air war in Europe from just after the BoB through the end of the war.

The Tempest was indeed used heavily for ground attack, as were most allied fighters late in the war. The fact is there were many more important targets on the ground than in the air at that point. The Tempest's four 20 mm cannons and great power to weight ratio made it rather good in that role.

This make interesting reading about Pierre Clostermann aircraft kills
RANCE’S highest-scoring fighter ace during the Second World War, Pierre Clostermann, came to Britain from America, joined the Free French Air Force and from 1943 flew on operations with RAF squadrons, first in Spitfires — in both the fighter and ground-attack roles — and later in Tempests, supporting the Allied advance in northwest Europe.

He set down his experiences of air fighting and the RAF’s aircraft in a memoir Le Grande Cirque (1948, tr. The Big Show, 1951). This vividly captures not only the spirit of air combat, but also the technical challenges of flying the last generation of high-performance pistonengined aircraft in the count-down to the jet age.

How many enemy aircraft Clostermann actually accounted for is today a matter for some debate. The famous picture of him sitting in the cockpit of his faithful Tempest, Le Grand Charles, in 1945, shows 32 Luftwaffe crosses on the fuselage, signifying that number of kills. The 1966 edition of that bible of fighter operations in the Second World War, Aces High, adds one more, crediting him with 33 kills. Subsequent editions of the work have revised those figures downwards considerably, and the total of aircraft he destroyed in the air is regarded as being somewhere nearer 18.

This is not to say that Clostermann was not a brave man and a skilful air fighter. But the French Air Force tended to adopt different criteria for combat victories — each pilot could make a claim for a shared kill — and there was a tendency to admit aircraft destroyed on the ground to totals.

Clostermann was certainly regarded by his RAF superiors as a first-class pilot. He, in turn, had a great affection for what he described as “the clean, frank, open atmosphere of the RAF”. His wartime service, in which he flew a colossal 420 sorties, earne

 

[OzDigger]

I believe The Big Show by Pierre Clostermann is an excellent first hand account of the air battles of WWII. I have read every book printed by allied and axis pilot-authors, Clostermann's is (to me) the best of them. I am not a fan of Heinz Knoke's 'I flew for the Fuhrer' as I found it very stilted.

Roland Beaumont was not the highest scorer, but to me he is the most famous Typhoon and Tempest pilot (he was shot down in his Tempest whilst attacking a train and became a POW, returning to test pilot duties after WWII): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Beamont

 

[Spitfrnd]

Yeah I am well aware of the Closterman kill "debate" but I read an explanation by the man himself that I found more convincing than anything else I have read. Candidly most allied aces probably had more kills than they are credited with because of the confirmation requirements. The bottom line is that he was one of the great allied aces whether it was 19 or 33 or some different number entirely. 400 plus combat missions is nothing to dismiss.