Almost no black toysoldeirs, Why?? (1 Viewer)

[Poppo]

Apart from Zulu, Ethiopian Askari and Buffalo soldiers, there are very few if any black toysoldiers.

For example, if I'm not mistaken , among the numerous American toysoldiers from the Second World War (Bulge, Normandy, Japan,aviators,crew) made by King and Country there are no blacks... Really??? KC Vietnam very few blacks, while in reality there were many if not the majority...KC ww2 british, no blacks. Thomas Gunn Korean war, zero black Americans... Really??? And these are just a few examples...

Also, while tons of Asian civilians are available (all made by King and country), impossible to find black civilians from any era when they would for example be very useful for the American Civil War.

I'm not a fanatic of the political correctness of Hollywood where there are black actors even among the Vikings, but I like historical realism..

 

[Horus]

Think you'll find that if you do your research, you'll find most Vietnam era US soldiers,Marines,Navy & Air Force were white. Though I agree K&C could do with adding a few more blacks, but then the same could be said for Hispanics,Asians and all the other racial groups who make up the population of the US!
You will only find Black, WW2 era Empire troops in certain areas. More likely to find Indian troops.French Colonial troops would be more likely for European use and K&C did do a couple in their F.O.B range.
In Europe population of blacks very small larger population of people of Chinese descent in London as an example.
Perhaps some Napoleonic era ex slaves enlisted in Caribbean for service there,due to high rate of deaths in white troops stationed there from tropical diseases. Though they acted very poorly in combat and run away from what I read.
But if a manufacturer was to do a range of say 19th Cenyury exploration of Africa or modern day US Army then there certainly would be a need for more Black toy soldier figures.

 

[OzDigger]

And...most Toy Soldier collectors are White, so there's that; just saying, don't judge ^&grin

 

[mestell]

JJD American Civil War 54th Massachusetts Infantry Regiment figures are very nicely done.

Mike

 

[mestell]

JJD has also released several FIW and AWI African Americans can figures . . .

Mike

 

[Napoleon1er]

Both WBritains and Jenkins have recently been doing a great job rectifying this. From an American perspective, black people have fought in every war of our republic, often in a far greater capacity than period and later imagery and historical texts generally acknowledge. Britains has recently put out some great black militia figures, and both Britains and K&C have put out black Vietnam figures. That said, we could really use more black WWI and WWII soldiers from everyone. I would love some Harlem Hellfighters, for example. I would also love to see some Tirailleurs Sénégalais from any era, as part of my job in the Army involves working with our partners in West Africa.

I would also love to see some American conflicts involving black Americans, such as the Haitian wars with France, John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry, any slave revolt or abolitionist-slaver conflict, &c. It would even be cool to see a British or American raid on a slave castle in Africa. That said, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Mike Niederman]

Think you'll find that if you do your research, you'll find most Vietnam era US soldiers,Marines,Navy & Air Force were white.

Approximately 300,000 African Americans served in the Vietnam War. In 1965, African Americans filled 31% of the ground combat battalions in Vietnam, while the percentage of African Americans as a minority in the general population was 12%. In 1965, African Americans suffered 24% of the U.S. Army's fatal casualties. from US Library of Congress Research Guide on American minority groups in the Vietnam War.

 

[OzDigger]

Apart from Zulu, Ethiopian Askari and Buffalo soldiers, there are very few if any black toysoldiers.

For example, if I'm not mistaken , among the numerous American toysoldiers from the Second World War (Bulge, Normandy, Japan,aviators,crew) made by King and Country there are no blacks... Really??? KC Vietnam very few blacks, while in reality there were many if not the majority...KC ww2 british, no blacks. Thomas Gunn Korean war, zero black Americans... Really??? And these are just a few examples...

Also, while tons of Asian civilians are available (all made by King and country), impossible to find black civilians from any era when they would for example be very useful for the American Civil War.

I'm not a fanatic of the political correctness of Hollywood where there are black actors even among the Vikings, but I like historical realism..

Poppo, King and Country have already produced a number of Black figures, including for the Second World War and Vietnam etc. And they continue to release Black figures, e.g. the Aboriginal Section Leader in Vietnam set VN051 'Aussies on Patrol' who I would assume is based on Thomas Henry 'Buddy' Lea.

However as I said, and others have hinted at, most Toy Soldier collectors are White are more likely to collect figures of more personal interest to themselves. That isn't being racist, just a personal preference, similar to me concentrating on collecting say Australian soldiers in Vietnam rather than the more numerous Americans. That said I would suggest that Toy Soldier makers advise the painters to use dark colours for the lips of Black figures rather than Pink/Red as they tend to look a bit Cartoonish.

Here's a video about Buddy Lea.

[video=youtube;erF-o8tp_YA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fanzacpor tal.dva.gov.au%2F&source_ve_path=MzY4NDIsMzY4NDIsM zY4NDIsMzY4NDIsMTM5MTE3LDEzOTExNywzNjg0MiwyODY2NCw xNjQ1MDM&feature=emb_share&v=erF-o8tp_YA[/video]

 

[jazzeum]

And...most Toy Soldier collectors are White

There is your answer right there.

Approximately 300,000 African Americans served in the Vietnam War. In 1965, African Americans filled 31% of the ground combat battalions in Vietnam, while the percentage of African Americans as a minority in the general population was 12%. In 1965, African Americans suffered 24% of the U.S. Army's fatal casualties. from US Library of Congress Research Guide on American minority groups in the Vietnam War.

For the entire war, the number of African Americans serving was approximately 16%, slightly higher than the African American makeup of the US population at the time.

 

[Obee]

Perhaps some Napoleonic era ex slaves enlisted in Caribbean for service there,due to high rate of deaths in white troops stationed there from tropical diseases. Though they acted very poorly in combat and run away from what I read.

I've got one, a Private, Colonial Demi-Brigade, St Dominique 1802 by New Hope design.



And another few from Napoleon's Grande Armee Cymbalist of Band of Imperial Guard Grenadiers 1802 by Tradition



and even more musicians from the Dutch Grenadiers also by Tradition.



Even Frederick the Great's father, Frederik William I in the 1730's had African musicians in his guards.
Also by Tradition



Then there are all the African warriors makers have made to repel the European colonists ......

John

 

[OzDigger]

Yep, most Toy Soldier collectors are White, Heterosexual and Capitalists...something there for every Whinger.

 

[paxtoysoldier]

There have definitely been releases of patriotic African-American soldiers fighting for our country. I think they have sold fairly well.
Name a range that needs more and it might be a seller.
Although even in multi-ethnic Skokie a friend's shop had to close due to lack of interest from the non-white community.
Anyway, I hope new generations of non-whites will find interest in our hobby! So more more African-American ranges may not be a bad idea.
Also, ranges that feature other races (beside Caucasian and African) may become more popular in time.
For now, if more Whites love military history, so be it. The world turns.
Best Wishes my very Euro friend,
Paddy

 

[Horus]

Approximately 300,000 African Americans served in the Vietnam War. In 1965, African Americans filled 31% of the ground combat battalions in Vietnam, while the percentage of African Americans as a minority in the general population was 12%. In 1965, African Americans suffered 24% of the U.S. Army's fatal casualties. from US Library of Congress Research Guide on American minority groups in the Vietnam War.

Thanks for confirming with your figures Mike. The percentage now would be very much higher as the services are seen as a good career.
As to figures, I've repainted most of my black ones as already mentioned. The lips being painted red do make them look most odd.
Also on multiple figures I have repainted white figures black and black figures white, depending on what I want. Collectors showcase a few years back, when they released a new batch of figures for their Vietnam range offered the same sculpted figures in both white and black skin tones, which does solve that issue for some collectors I think.
Different cultures have different thoughts on the depiction of the human figure as Paddy pointed out and toy soldier sales will never make headway.
Perhaps some manufacturer will consider doing a JGSDF range as Japan loves its miniatures.
Many collectors are still hoping for ranges covering Jewish history. I'm sure ancients fans would love that, in the same way JJD has done Aztecs etc.

 

[paxtoysoldier]

Many collectors are still hoping for ranges covering Jewish history. I'm sure ancients fans would love that.[/QUOTE]

I'd love to see Hebrews vs Egyptians by JJD! My wallet just kicked me in the buttocks for thinking it.
But you are right about everything you said Steve. Kudos for repainting the dubiously painted lips on some figs!
Best Wishes as always,
Paddy.
God Save The King.

 

[Poppo]

Yep, most Toy Soldier collectors are White, Heterosexual and Capitalists...something there for every Whinger.

I'm white too (I don't see what sexuality has to do with the toy soldier market to be honest); I don't have particular sympathy for one ethnicity or another, but I'm interested in a realistic representation in a diorama, so I like figures of black people when necessary. Another example: there are no black women in the world of toy soldiers.

According to your reasoning, whoever buys Nazis is a Nazi? What about the HK line, samurais? there are only Asians, no whites..

 

[jazzeum]

Britains has made Frederick Douglass and Harriet Tubman. In addition to JJD, Britains and Trophy making 54th Mass, AeroArt has also made some African American soldiers, such as 1st South Carolina Volunteers.



In addition, for American War of Independence, JJD made a drummer of the Rhode Island Regiment and FL made a trumpeter of the Continental 3rd Light Dragoons.

 

[Poppo]

Poppo, King and Country have already produced a number of Black figures, including for the Second World War and Vietnam etc. And they continue to release Black figures, e.g. the Aboriginal Section Leader in Vietnam set VN051 'Aussies on Patrol' who I would assume is based on Thomas Henry 'Buddy' Lea.



What about WW2 americans ( Bulge, Normandy, Japan)? There are hundreds of those....


The first white bread my father ate in his life, he was 10yo, was given him by a black american soldier while they were liberating northern Italy.

 

[OzDigger]

I'm white too (I don't see what sexuality has to do with the toy soldier market to be honest); I don't have particular sympathy for one ethnicity or another, but I'm interested in a realistic representation in a diorama, so I like figures of black people when necessary. Another example: there are no black women in the world of toy soldiers.

According to your reasoning, whoever buys Nazis is a Nazi? What about the HK line, samurais? there are only Asians, no whites..

You have made a number of incorrect assertions there Poppo, not the first time.

 

[OzDigger]

Poppo, King and Country have already produced a number of Black figures, including for the Second World War and Vietnam etc. And they continue to release Black figures, e.g. the Aboriginal Section Leader in Vietnam set VN051 'Aussies on Patrol' who I would assume is based on Thomas Henry 'Buddy' Lea.



What about WW2 americans ( Bulge, Normandy, Japan)? There are hundreds of those....


The first white bread my father ate in his life, he was 10yo, was given him by a black american soldier while they were liberating northern Italy.

And your point is?

 

[Napoleon1er]

What about WW2 americans ( Bulge, Normandy, Japan)? There are hundreds of those....

The first white bread my father ate in his life, he was 10yo, was given him by a black american soldier while they were liberating northern Italy.

Stories like this remind me of why I love and serve my country.