American Civil War Update (2 Viewers)

jazzeum

jazzeum

Four Star General
Joined
Apr 23, 2005
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In the latest newsletter that Matt sent out overnight, he indicated that Generals Buford and Reynolds are "'Special Collector Sets" and only 200 will be produced of each. I'm not sure if this has been publicized before.

Both are available for pre-order and will ship at the end of November.
 
Well, 200 are enough when the uniform is incorrect for
a Union General. But then I don't collect Yankees.

I do have the mounted Knights on pre-order.
 
BLReed said:
Well, 200 are enough when the uniform is incorrect for
a Union General. But then I don't collect Yankees.

I do have the mounted Knights on pre-order.
Click to expand...

Would you mind sharing with me what is not correct on the uniform? Am not an expert in that area - thanks.
 
I'm glad someone else bit on that comment. Since officers purchased uniforms from private makers or purchased enlisted uniforms from the Quartermaster (or was it Commissary?), I thought officers, especially general, had a little leeway in re clothing. Are there any images of Buford or Reynolds in their combat uniforms? Any descriptions? I don't know. Needless to say, I would like to know what's wrong with the uniforms. I've argued with Matt before about drill, but his uniforms are usually spot on.

Dave
 
I'm not an expert in this area but this came up before and I think some people gave an answer (I will look) and I talked to a couple of people who are experts in this area and whose opinion I respect and part of the problem with the uniforms is that they are depicted with stripes, when they did not have them. Now, I still like the figures and will purchase them but I know this is a problem for some who feel that they should be historically correct.
 
There are numerous serviving historical images of both Buford and Reynolds as well as paintings by some very well known historical artists. When I first saw the FL figure of Buford I thought his hat was odd looking. In all the period photos of Buford, none of them shows him wearing such a hat, and this includes his statue at Gettysburg as well (which by the way would have been an excellent study for the FL figure). The first thing I thought about the FL Reynolds figure was his horse (its brown). All the reports/detail of Reynolds death that I have read indicate that he was riding a black horse. This is also shown in all the well known historical paintings of his death in Herbst Woods. Of course Dave is correct in saying that the officers had some leeway in their uniform dress. Afterall, it is well known that Grant was dressed in an enlisted coat at Appomatox. However, I don't necessarily agree with Dave's comment that the FL uniforms are "spot on". I have had this conversation with Matt myself. Who can say for sure what is correct or not is debatable, and there certainly needs to be some creative license in order to make the product more appealing to the majority of the collectors. I will have to agree that the various FL figures and vehicles are exceptionally sculted/crafted and the painting is just amazing. I thoroughly love my FL AWI collection and am eagerly awaiting the arrival of the 22nd Regiment of Foot. However, as much as I am fascinated by, and prefer the history of the ACW, and call me a "knit picker", I will pass up on theses two personality figures.
:) Mike
 
jazzeum said:
This thread has more information about the issue raised.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this link Brad. I missed it entirely since I don't often look at the Frontline postings. The dialogue between jefman and terp152 is spot on IMHO. It is very similar to the conversation we have had together as well as my conversations with Matt. I really believe that the next ACW offerings by FL will be very acceptable and welcomed by most of us, including a "knit picker" like me :wink2:
:smile2: Mike
 
mestell said:
Thanks for posting this link Brad. I missed it entirely since I don't often look at the Frontline postings. The dialogue between jefman and terp152 is spot on IMHO. It is very similar to the conversation we have had together as well as my conversations with Matt. I really believe that the next ACW offerings by FL will be very acceptable and welcomed by most of us, including a "knit picker" like me :wink2:
:smile2: Mike
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that Mike as I didn't want to mention you by name but our talk (well, it was more you talking :smile2: and me listening -- in awe) was quite enlightening and informative, to say the least.

Hope you're well by the way (sorry if that sounds like an afterthought). Have a good Thanksgiving.

Regards,

Brad
 
BLReed said:
Here you go.........Google is your friend.... http://www.google.com/search?q=civi...0&bih=642&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&cad=b

The jackets should be double-breasted for Senior Officers. Makes them easier to recognize
at a distance.

If the above link doesn't work just google.....civil war generals union uniform
Click to expand...


This is an interesting observation. However, our General Reynolds does have a double breasted jacket on. And I'd need to look again, but i'm almost positive that the statue of Buford at Gettysburg shows him in a single breasted jacket.

There is an interesting photo of Hancock and his divisional commanders in the field (i.e. NOT portaits), all of whom were generals. Barlow (Brigadier General) - single breasted, Birney (Major General) - double breasted, Gibbon (Brigadier General) - single breasted, Hancock (Major General) - double breated. So following this, our Reynolds (Major General) has a double breasted jacket and our Buford (Brigadier General) has a single breasted jacket.

So we do actually check a few things before we go ahead and sculpt a figure! We may not always get it exactly right, but sometimes what's right isn't what seems initially obvious.

Best,

Matt
 
I've looked at the figures. Reynolds is wearing a double-breasted frock, and Buford is wearing a private purchase officer's fatigue blouse. Both are appropriate. Paintings and statuary shouldn't be used as references. Even eye-witness accounts can be faulty, if recorded years later. They are frequently influenced by the passage of time. At courthouses around the country, and even at Gettysburg, there are statues cast wearing Spanish-American War uniforms and equipment (because 1900 was the earliest some veterans could afford to build a monument). I should qualify my statement about FL's ACW uniforms. FL's Confederate uniforms are spot-on in color and construction. Matt really hit the colors. I don't know as much about Federal cavalry.

Dave
 
FirstLegion said:
This is an interesting observation. However, our General Reynolds does have a double breasted jacket on. And I'd need to look again, but i'm almost positive that the statue of Buford at Gettysburg shows him in a single breasted jacket.
Click to expand...


I think pretty much every depiction I have seen of Buford at Gettysburg in painting, sculpture or film has him wearing a single breasted coat. I believe one of the reenactment uniform suppliers sells just such a coat it calls the "Buford". It is probably impossible to know what Buford was actually wearing on 7/1/1863, but the single breasted coat is certainly the accepted popular image, and I personally would have been disappointed if FL had depicted him otherwise.
 
Speaking of Buford --

Buford's ADC at Gettysburg was Captain Miles Keogh (later of Little Big Horn "fame".) A mounted Captain Keogh would be a great companion piece.
 
I am of the firm belief that all manufacturers particularly high quality, high end makers like First Legion should reveal their prototypes to observers prior to an expensive rollout of the products. Matt did that with his ACW 8th Illinois Cavalry.His workbench thread on his website is cutting edge. Some of us have been very objective on his progress and depictions of this somewhat controversial line. This action will insure that a line of troops is not subject to being scrutininzed as sub standard. The sculpts, the painting, the historical accuracy are issues when one is paying $55 a figure or in the First Legion universe close to $150 for a mounted figurine. At that price which is if the figurine is historically accurate I think their is value and enjoyment in the investment if the line is made in numbers to reflect long term collectibility and the the object...yes a piece of art...exudes a timeless appeal that will be attractive to current and future purchasers. What should collectors do? Not volunteer their thoughts when a line is introduced or in prototype development? Let the product go to market knowing their is obvious deficiencies that preclude discriminating, thoughtful collectors from wanting to purchase the figurines? To date I believe that First Legion has re defined and raised the bar for the high end, museum quality line of this hobby. In the automobile world you have entry level, mid market and high end luxury products. First Legion fits the bill on the luxury side. Accordingly no makers bat 1000% on their products but in time as this line matures I see great things. Matt: Do not get jaded on your Civil War line. I am a big fan...I know I have to wait for Civil War Confederate cavalry. They did fight Day 2 at Gettysburg (actually Hunterstown) if you want to get started on them now! I hope you hit a home run with that series. And don't be offended by any dialogue. I think most collectors will choose to help and not hinder. I think most want you and your team to get it right, to be spot on, to be one of the beacons of high end market of the hobby and be tremendously successful. Bottom line: Buford's jacket, odd slouch hats, yellow trouser stripes on troopers are not deal killers. Keep the products coming. Most of us like them and will purchase them.
 
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