An Addendum and Update on the State of Toy Soldier Collecting - One Person's Opinion (1 Viewer)

Arnhemjim

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This author personally believes that a significant evolution has occurred in the collecting of toy soldiers. As has been previously and frequently stated in this blog at least two major factors have been driving the collection of toy soldiers/military miniatures for at least several decades. I personally feel that for the serious collector, regardless of their resources or perspective of interest, there has been an evolution from the classic toy soldier to the military miniature, i.e. from vintage Minot and W. Britains Ltd to King & Country, Tommy Gunn and John Jenkins, just as examples. Strongly illustrative of this trend is the decrease of auctions of vintage toy soldiers (W. Britains) in both the United States and Great Britain, and the overall diminished presence and quality of the sets being offered on e-Bay. Further corroborating this fact is the significant overall decrease of prices realized at auction in recent years, again with exceptions. If one views recent photographs at the decreasing number of remaining toy soldier shows (West Coaster and Texas are gone, and in the U.K. the shows much smaller) the discernible absence of the iconic red W. Britains boxes is consistent. The notable exceptions (there are always exceptions) being William Hocker and Imperial (New Zealand). Hocker more so than Imperial, providing a nostalgic bridge to the past.

My personal opinion is that the increase in scale, 1:32 (54mm) to 1:30 (60mm), and the resultant significant increase in detail, quality of figure sculpture and painting (and in most cases historical accuracy), and the predomination of matte over gloss finish, have been the principal results. Obviously as this has occurred, and with the overall world labour market, prices have sharply increased in recent years. I can clearly recall a previous parallel example. In the late 1950s and early 60s a box/set of W. Britains Ltd. cost between $1.25 to $2.00 USD, but even then, a single Greenwood & Ball figure was priced from $6.50 to $9.50 USD, at the time an exorbitant cost.

The second factor of this evolution being the trend from merely display of mass formations to dioramas, has caused a change in the resultant facets of judgement and appreciation of individual collections. And again Malcom Forbes presentation format at his museum in Tangiers, Morocco and Anne Brown’s collection at the Brown University Library (see; https://library.brown.edu/collections/askb/ ) being significant exceptions.

Until recently dioramas were predominately the domain of museums. Once again, the exceptions being individual “objects de art” and/or vignettes. Here artists in the Russian Federation would appear to currently predominate the field. Not unlike the media of more classic and conventional art (with the obvious exception of modern abstract art), the elements of composition, historical accuracy, visual effects, and unique subject matter/backgrounds are significant factors. In this author’s opinion this tends to relegate the figures to merely an element, albeit essential, of the artist’s palette.

All that having been said there is absolutely nothing to be taken, inferred, or intended of a negative or derogatory nature by this evolution, it is that, an evolution, which should be both recognized and appreciated. However, there is one disconcerting element in addition to the sharp price increases that is universal, that being the almost absolute absence of younger aged collectors.

Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory
 
This author personally believes that a significant evolution has occurred in the collecting of toy soldiers. As has been previously and frequently stated in this blog at least two major factors have been driving the collection of toy soldiers/military miniatures for at least several decades. I personally feel that for the serious collector, regardless of their resources or perspective of interest, there has been an evolution from the classic toy soldier to the military miniature, i.e. from vintage Minot and W. Britains Ltd to King & Country, Tommy Gunn and John Jenkins, just as examples. Strongly illustrative of this trend is the decrease of auctions of vintage toy soldiers (W. Britains) in both the United States and Great Britain, and the overall diminished presence and quality of the sets being offered on e-Bay. Further corroborating this fact is the significant overall decrease of prices realized at auction in recent years, again with exceptions. If one views recent photographs at the decreasing number of remaining toy soldier shows (West Coaster and Texas are gone, and in the U.K. the shows much smaller) the discernible absence of the iconic red W. Britains boxes is consistent. The notable exceptions (there are always exceptions) being William Hocker and Imperial (New Zealand). Hocker more so than Imperial, providing a nostalgic bridge to the past.

My personal opinion is that the increase in scale, 1:32 (54mm) to 1:30 (60mm), and the resultant significant increase in detail, quality of figure sculpture and painting (and in most cases historical accuracy), and the predomination of matte over gloss finish, have been the principal results. Obviously as this has occurred, and with the overall world labour market, prices have sharply increased in recent years. I can clearly recall a previous parallel example. In the late 1950s and early 60s a box/set of W. Britains Ltd. cost between $1.25 to $2.00 USD, but even then, a single Greenwood & Ball figure was priced from $6.50 to $9.50 USD, at the time an exorbitant cost.

The second factor of this evolution being the trend from merely display of mass formations to dioramas, has caused a change in the resultant facets of judgement and appreciation of individual collections. And again Malcom Forbes presentation format at his museum in Tangiers, Morocco and Anne Brown’s collection at the Brown University Library (see; https://library.brown.edu/collections/askb/ ) being significant exceptions.

Until recently dioramas were predominately the domain of museums. Once again, the exceptions being individual “objects de art” and/or vignettes. Here artists in the Russian Federation would appear to currently predominate the field. Not unlike the media of more classic and conventional art (with the obvious exception of modern abstract art), the elements of composition, historical accuracy, visual effects, and unique subject matter/backgrounds are significant factors. In this author’s opinion this tends to relegate the figures to merely an element, albeit essential, of the artist’s palette.

All that having been said there is absolutely nothing to be taken, inferred, or intended of a negative or derogatory nature by this evolution, it is that, an evolution, which should be both recognized and appreciated. However, there is one disconcerting element in addition to the sharp price increases that is universal, that being the almost absolute absence of younger aged collectors.

Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory


Our friend Jim's observations and opinions of the current state of the world of toy soldiers, or if you prefer, military miniatures, echoes many of my own.

I began collecting 'tin soldiers' back in the mid 1950's when an infantryman cost just six old pennies and virtually every little boy of my post war generation was a fellow enthusiast.

If we were lucky and had some 'pocket money' and a few generous relatives I might be able to buy 2, 3 or even 4 in a good week at that price level. I never had massed ranks of red-coated guardsmen parading across the living room floor or family dining table... I simply could not afford them and neither could my working class family...or indeed, as I recall, any of my boyhood friends.

For me, Timpo GI's in action were my 'Soldiers of Choice'...I had a little platoon's worth of American soldiers that provided me with countless hours of playtime and enjoyment that helped fire my early enthusiasm and interest in history, particularly WW2, and creating my own and brother Gordon's love of building small displays and much later, whole dioramas.

Now, journey forward into a whole different century... the world itself has changed into a very, very different place from the days of the 'six penny toy soldier' and the simple pleasures of making your own fun, either on your own or with a few like-minded friends.

Today, the sheer variety of subject matter and incredible numbers of what's on offer to collectors is truly staggering! So too, of course is the cost of producing, selling and buying these more modern and much more detailed descendants of my original little 'six penny tin soldier'

As the outside world itself is constantly evolving and changing all around us so too is our tiny, little 'World of Toy Soldiers'...We all have to adapt and evolve in our own individual ways and according to our own personal means...It's not always easy but it can be a lot of fun.

At least that's my personal point of view...
Best wishes and happy collecting!
Andy.
 
Thanks for posting your views, they make interesting reading.

Unfortunately, with the advent of computerised gaming, where everything is now so graphic, the younger collectors the hobby craves are just not going to be interested in static soldiers and using their imagination.

In addition, nobody is interested in spending time painting figures today like we used to. I remember visiting Tradition in Shepard's Market to by a figure to paint or Under Two Flags with a friend. We would sit in his fathers shed at the bench and paint the whole summer holiday. I can't see the "must have it now" youngsters doing that.

I believe that, along with the manufacturing technology advances, this has also been a catalyst in moving the hobby to more realistic figures and dioramas rather then displays.

Ironically, my personal collecting taste has moved from matte realistic figures to the glossy figures created by Trophy, Regal and W Britain.

Afraid, I can't recall the 50's! my schoolboy collecting started with Britain's details in the 70's.

Regards to all Smendy
 
Thanks for posting your views, they make interesting reading.

Unfortunately, with the advent of computerised gaming, where everything is now so graphic, the younger collectors the hobby craves are just not going to be interested in static soldiers and using their imagination.

In addition, nobody is interested in spending time painting figures today like we used to. I remember visiting Tradition in Shepard's Market to by a figure to paint or Under Two Flags with a friend. We would sit in his fathers shed at the bench and paint the whole summer holiday. I can't see the "must have it now" youngsters doing that.

I believe that, along with the manufacturing technology advances, this has also been a catalyst in moving the hobby to more realistic figures and dioramas rather then displays.

Ironically, my personal collecting taste has moved from matte realistic figures to the glossy figures created by Trophy, Regal and W Britain.

Afraid, I can't recall the 50's! my schoolboy collecting started with Britain's details in the 70's.

Regards to all Smendy

Not so fast ....
Younger don't paint soldiers !
Well the kind of soldiers they paint are not the same, replace by SF and Fantasy
Why do you think they are so many Games Workshop all around the world ?
They also give painting instruction in their shops and sell millions of paint jars
The young painters are still there and very actives . And they still are a large amount of painters, all ages, actives in wargaming
No buyers ... in the past, end 60ies early 70ies they were ( unpainted sets makers ) 50 - 100 brands, and today I listed 1000 brands + 140 Toy Soldiers ( metalic ) makers ... so much ? Yes, meaning they is a large bunch of customers .
Please, remember, the peoples who are reacting on any subject on a forum are a very small percentage of the people who read the subject
On another forum I wrote, and continue to enlarge it, about a database of the little soldiers makers
About 100 peoples furnished, info's, pictures, links, advices, catalogues, comments and likes... but 52.000 peoples peaked at the post
52.000 then on a forum dedicated only to figurines in kit .
On another forum in french, interested only in Plastic painted figures, so narrowing the field of interest AND in French, they decided to count the number of pages visited ... 1 year now ==== 1.250.000 hits

I think that the toy soldiers collectors, painters are a bit shy ... afraid of being seen as children still playing with toys

Best
 
Not so fast ....
Younger don't paint soldiers !
Well the kind of soldiers they paint are not the same, replace by SF and Fantasy
Why do you think they are so many Games Workshop all around the world ?
They also give painting instruction in their shops and sell millions of paint jars
The young painters are still there and very actives . And they still are a large amount of painters, all ages, actives in wargaming
No buyers ... in the past, end 60ies early 70ies they were ( unpainted sets makers ) 50 - 100 brands, and today I listed 1000 brands + 140 Toy Soldiers ( metalic ) makers ... so much ? Yes, meaning they is a large bunch of customers .
Please, remember, the peoples who are reacting on any subject on a forum are a very small percentage of the people who read the subject
On another forum I wrote, and continue to enlarge it, about a database of the little soldiers makers
About 100 peoples furnished, info's, pictures, links, advices, catalogues, comments and likes... but 52.000 peoples peaked at the post
52.000 then on a forum dedicated only to figurines in kit .
On another forum in french, interested only in Plastic painted figures, so narrowing the field of interest AND in French, they decided to count the number of pages visited ... 1 year now ==== 1.250.000 hits

I think that the toy soldiers collectors, painters are a bit shy ... afraid of being seen as children still playing with toys

Best


Hi Mirof,

Well said, Sir!

Agree wholeheartedly. The Hobby is NOT dying, it is changing, and rapidly, but the numbers of collectors, how ever described, is increasing!

You highlight the major problem with the Hobby: it is full of "Closet Collectors" By not communicating with producers, the producers don;t really know what to make. So they make what they like, or what they say will sell.

One of the biggest cons caused by this problem has been the rise and rise of the 1/30 scale figure. The bigger they are the better they are is a total con.

I personally believe the the day of "the one thirtieth wonders" is almost over. Discerning collectors are starting to realise that they are too big and too dear. One can fit a lot more 1/32 figures in a cabinet and save money too.

Design, tooling and production costs also dictate what we see for sale. Lower these costs and see more variety?

Subject matter is a big beef. When are we going to see the Eastern Front of WWI given proper consideration. The Austrians, Russians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbs etc all deserve a place in the sun too. Ask a Producer: "No one is interested"

Some subjects are determined by the Collectors. The Seven Years War is one. Some people, particularly in the Western Hemisphere think that the French and Indian War was the total Seven Years War.

Showing my age and time in the Hobby, I am a "1/32 man". However, sometimes I wish that I had been afflicted by the "28mm strain" of our particular disease. If so, I wouldn't be ranting on in this forum, I would be contentedly fondling figures from any period in history I fancied.

Did someone say the bigger they get the better they get?

The other problem in the hobby, hinted at above is that there are "Artists" "Entrepreneurs" and "Consumers" involved and none of them speaks, meaningfully to the others.

No one, of whom I am aware, in the TS community has tried "Crowd Funding". Happens all the time in other areas of the hobby.

Like Mirof, I spent my early years in awe of the "Artists" (who never really communicated with us either) buying their marvelous wares. However, most were fickle and never finished a "set" before moving on. Or the did the Infantry but no Cavalry or artillery. Or did one "side" but not the other.

The Entrepreneurs have a better record, but they are by no means perfect.

Crowd Funding may be a way of fixing these problems?

May I throw down the gauntlet to the Producers?

Happy Collecting,

Oberstinhaber.
 
Hi Mirof,

Well said, Sir!

Agree wholeheartedly. The Hobby is NOT dying, it is changing, and rapidly, but the numbers of collectors, how ever described, is increasing!

You highlight the major problem with the Hobby: it is full of "Closet Collectors" By not communicating with producers, the producers don;t really know what to make. So they make what they like, or what they say will sell.

One of the biggest cons caused by this problem has been the rise and rise of the 1/30 scale figure. The bigger they are the better they are is a total con.

I personally believe the the day of "the one thirtieth wonders" is almost over. Discerning collectors are starting to realise that they are too big and too dear. One can fit a lot more 1/32 figures in a cabinet and save money too.

Design, tooling and production costs also dictate what we see for sale. Lower these costs and see more variety?

Subject matter is a big beef. When are we going to see the Eastern Front of WWI given proper consideration. The Austrians, Russians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbs etc all deserve a place in the sun too. Ask a Producer: "No one is interested"

Some subjects are determined by the Collectors. The Seven Years War is one. Some people, particularly in the Western Hemisphere think that the French and Indian War was the total Seven Years War.

Showing my age and time in the Hobby, I am a "1/32 man". However, sometimes I wish that I had been afflicted by the "28mm strain" of our particular disease. If so, I wouldn't be ranting on in this forum, I would be contentedly fondling figures from any period in history I fancied.

Did someone say the bigger they get the better they get?

The other problem in the hobby, hinted at above is that there are "Artists" "Entrepreneurs" and "Consumers" involved and none of them speaks, meaningfully to the others.

No one, of whom I am aware, in the TS community has tried "Crowd Funding". Happens all the time in other areas of the hobby.

Like Mirof, I spent my early years in awe of the "Artists" (who never really communicated with us either) buying their marvelous wares. However, most were fickle and never finished a "set" before moving on. Or the did the Infantry but no Cavalry or artillery. Or did one "side" but not the other.

The Entrepreneurs have a better record, but they are by no means perfect.

Crowd Funding may be a way of fixing these problems?

May I throw down the gauntlet to the Producers?

Happy Collecting,

Oberstinhaber.

You raise many interesting points my friend ...especially about 'choice of subject matter to produce' i.e. WW1 Austrians, Bulgarians, Serbians etc. And 'Crowdfunding' to pay for it...
So, why not try it yourself..?
Find a factory somewhere...select a Sculptor...Create your own designs ...and then 'crowdfund' the entire project...Piece of cake I reckon.
And let me be the first to wish you all the very best!
Andy.
 
All,

I got laughed at one time for collecting toy solider's...or as one hater said "collecting dollies". I have never brought up toy soldier collecting again at a social dinner event again.

However...comma...everytime someone comes to my house (including the my kids teen age friends) they stare at awe over my pieces. Which I don't even have properly displayed yet.

John from Texas
 
All,

I got laughed at one time for collecting toy solider's...or as one hater said "collecting dollies". I have never brought up toy soldier collecting again at a social dinner event again.

However...comma...everytime someone comes to my house (including the my kids teen age friends) they stare at awe over my pieces. Which I don't even have properly displayed yet.

John from Texas

John, you should bring it up call it collecting model figures and take an example with you, I am sure they will get quiet really quickly.
 
Alexander,

Oh I shut up a detractor once when I told them one of my pieces costs 5 grand. Likewise, I have sold some pieces for a song or two. BUT, it is nothing compared to some of the gents here on this forum and the collections they have a-la ZB Lang, George, Jazzeum, Mike Miller, Louis, TomTNT and others. Those dudes have museums.

Anyway, no toy soldier talk at social events.

John from Texas
 
Hi Mirof,

Well said, Sir!

Agree wholeheartedly. The Hobby is NOT dying, it is changing, and rapidly, but the numbers of collectors, how ever described, is increasing!

You highlight the major problem with the Hobby: it is full of "Closet Collectors" By not communicating with producers, the producers don;t really know what to make. So they make what they like, or what they say will sell.

One of the biggest cons caused by this problem has been the rise and rise of the 1/30 scale figure. The bigger they are the better they are is a total con.

I personally believe the the day of "the one thirtieth wonders" is almost over. Discerning collectors are starting to realise that they are too big and too dear. One can fit a lot more 1/32 figures in a cabinet and save money too.

Design, tooling and production costs also dictate what we see for sale. Lower these costs and see more variety?

Subject matter is a big beef. When are we going to see the Eastern Front of WWI given proper consideration. The Austrians, Russians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbs etc all deserve a place in the sun too. Ask a Producer: "No one is interested"

Some subjects are determined by the Collectors. The Seven Years War is one. Some people, particularly in the Western Hemisphere think that the French and Indian War was the total Seven Years War.

Showing my age and time in the Hobby, I am a "1/32 man". However, sometimes I wish that I had been afflicted by the "28mm strain" of our particular disease. If so, I wouldn't be ranting on in this forum, I would be contentedly fondling figures from any period in history I fancied.

Did someone say the bigger they get the better they get?

The other problem in the hobby, hinted at above is that there are "Artists" "Entrepreneurs" and "Consumers" involved and none of them speaks, meaningfully to the others.

No one, of whom I am aware, in the TS community has tried "Crowd Funding". Happens all the time in other areas of the hobby.

Like Mirof, I spent my early years in awe of the "Artists" (who never really communicated with us either) buying their marvelous wares. However, most were fickle and never finished a "set" before moving on. Or the did the Infantry but no Cavalry or artillery. Or did one "side" but not the other.

The Entrepreneurs have a better record, but they are by no means perfect.

Crowd Funding may be a way of fixing these problems?

May I throw down the gauntlet to the Producers?

Happy Collecting,

Oberstinhaber.

I'd really like to know why you think those of us who collect 1/30 scale figures are being con'd?

Last I looked TS manufactures across the board produce a raft of scales and collectors still have loads of choice.

Look forward to your reply.
 

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