An Unsung Hero To A Degree.....Let Us Salute Him!!!! (1 Viewer)

[Guy]

Right.....But don' t forget that on the other side defending the coasts were only poor german bunkers most of which unfinished and defended by mostly old soldiers who found in front of them the hugest army of all times.....Forgetting for a moment Hollywood films, after the first or secon wave,the germans were litteraly overwhelmed by the giant american forces...The " Panzer Lehr" division, one month later was burned on their position before even firing a bullet....I say this just because in american films we see the few americans in front of the huge german defences!!!.....And this is just an historic fake, or propaganda..

Dont forget that apart from the 716th Inf Div and the 709th Inf Div ( Ost) consisting mainly of those units not fit for "active duty", there were some tough cookies to crack near the beaches,such as the 352nd Div, well trained combat veterans, the 91st Luftlande a well equiped Inf Div, the 243rd Inf Div, the 711th Inf Div, the 30th Mobile Brigade, the 21st Panzer Div near Caen and the Fallschirmjäger just to name a few
guy:smile2:

 

[Larry Allen]

Sorry about the first post ... hit save to fast ...
.........I would have to agree with you to a point about the ability of the german soldier during WWII. When you look at the superiority in men, machines, supplies and, in air power against them its often overlooked at how good the german units were. I don't mean just the postSS units but, normal Heer units. The german ability to think on their feet tactically was probably far superior to the allied forces against them and, the superb NCO's and junior officers they seemed able to produce caused many problems for the allies on all fronts. ...........


I wonder if the fact that the Germans were training for 15 years for the upcoming war, while the average GI was a baker, a car mechanic, or a carpenter or a shoe salesman, gave the Germans an advantage in the early stages of war, as compared to the GI’s ability.


The US got a butt whooping at Kasserine Pass but seemed to learn very quickly the tactics of moder war. Same with the Marines’s at Guadacanal and other islands. At first the Marines were totally out of their element but buy the end of that campaign they were fast becoming adept at Jungle fighting. It would still be a while before they were “as good as the Japanese” but the results say all that is needed.

Just a thought --- Larry

 

[Mitch]

Larry...

It must play a part the way that the german training schools for officers etc taught them but, it seems more than that I would venture. When your pitted against an enemy who has overwhelming superiority in numbers of troops and material you have to be good at your job to inflict the losses on the allies east and west that the germans did.

The belief in these NCO's and junior and some senior officers was as strong at the end of the war, from my reading and research, as it was at the start of the war. It explains how you strip the likes of the Leibstandarte of these ranks and train a new division in a very short space of time to such a high level of ability like the Hitlerjugend. Its not so much about being beaten in battle its about how hard they made it for an enemy with overwhelming material superiority. Look at the stubborn resistance for example in Normandy. The plans were for a much faster and easier capture of the area but, significantly smaller units of germans without any air cover continued to hold the Allies back far longer than they should have. Thats down to the ability of the ranks I mentioned and, the fighting spirit of the ordinary soldier.

There has been some very interesting research into this post war by the allies and, in more recent years by ex military officers turned authors that show this to be a striking feature of the german army in WWII. One springs to mind Is Michael reynolds who has addressed the SS units in some detail but, there are a few more who have addressed Heer units on the eastern and western fronts.

Its a very controversial subject but also a very interesting one as many don't like the fact that the germans could possibly have been better than allies or, if they lost how could they have been better.
Mitch

Mitch

Sorry about the first post ... hit save to fast ...
.........I would have to agree with you to a point about the ability of the german soldier during WWII. When you look at the superiority in men, machines, supplies and, in air power against them its often overlooked at how good the german units were. I don't mean just the postSS units but, normal Heer units. The german ability to think on their feet tactically was probably far superior to the allied forces against them and, the superb NCO's and junior officers they seemed able to produce caused many problems for the allies on all fronts. ...........


I wonder if the fact that the Germans were training for 15 years for the upcoming war, while the average GI was a baker, a car mechanic, or a carpenter or a shoe salesman, gave the Germans an advantage in the early stages of war, as compared to the GI’s ability.


The US got a butt whooping at Kasserine Pass but seemed to learn very quickly the tactics of moder war. Same with the Marines’s at Guadacanal and other islands. At first the Marines were totally out of their element but buy the end of that campaign they were fast becoming adept at Jungle fighting. It would still be a while before they were “as good as the Japanese” but the results say all that is needed.

Just a thought --- Larry

 

[Poppo]

Dont forget that apart from the 716th Inf Div and the 709th Inf Div ( Ost) consisting mainly of those units not fit for "active duty", there were some tough cookies to crack near the beaches,such as the 352nd Div, well trained combat veterans, the 91st Luftlande a well equiped Inf Div, the 243rd Inf Div, the 711th Inf Div, the 30th Mobile Brigade, the 21st Panzer Div near Caen and the Fallschirmjäger just to name a few
guy:smile2:

yes, and they fought hard, but in front of the hugest army ever landed in history, they had just the possibility to surrender or to die....And the battle of normany has also another world record: it was the first battle in which the issue was decided by the air forces....We know all today that any modern army, even the best equipped has no one chance to win against another army who totally controls the sky....The germans became real professionals in hiding and in the art of camouflage if they wanted to survive, they melted in the nature...They even took away the doors from their vehicles to jump off faster as they were attaked by JABOS like 20 times in 10 kilometers! While the americans could wear their green uniforms ...And the classic action was : some german panthers or tigers attacked or counter attacked the american lines, and always broke them, but after few kilometers the JABOS arrived and made full cleaning....

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Ludwig, that gray helmet....Is it all original ? Looks like it by the picture.

 

[Bayern]

Ludwig, that gray helmet....Is it all original ? Looks like it by the picture.

Yes PA, It is an original United States Navy M1 Helmet. Original battleship grey paint job. Recognized mostly on Gunners Mates, but I believe nearly all hands donned one when general quarters sounded.

I thought it would look good for the tribute to those guys.

Ludwig

 

[Poppo]

Yes PA, It is an original United States Navy M1 Helmet. Original battleship grey paint job. Recognized mostly on Gunners Mates, but I believe nearly all hands donned one when general quarters sounded.

I thought it would look good for the tribute to those guys.

Ludwig

View attachment 100405

Ludwig, I love your connection "real objects" and " toysoldiers", really nice!

 

[Bayern]

Ludwig, I love your connection "real objects" and " toysoldiers", really nice!

Trying to catch up a bit. Thanks for the comment. I would love to see other members post real military items with their Toy Soldiers too.

Thanks again,

Poppo.

Ludwig