Andy’s Response (1 Viewer)

[maddadicus]

I have come full circle in this argument. When I first came to these forums, I never imagined that there were collectors and dealers buying or holding multiples of an item for speculation purposes. I was one ticked off puppy and me and Oz got called out by Andy for our opinions against this practice at that time. Before I started collecting K/C ,I was taking serious losses on ebay for my earlier toy soldier collection that I was trying to trim.....Though I do not buy multiples of a K/C item, I have sold retired pieces in order to further my collecting. I have even bought a duplicate item at a good price in order to take advantage of the retired market. I would be foolish to stand on some moral ground for not participating in this sellers market right now. I am torn between the desire that more folks ought be able to own any piece at retail and the legitimate right of a person to do what he wants with the stuff he pays for. That is capitalism at its imperfect finest. As for the K/C stuff being sold on the other forum, those that know, must admit that most are being sold at below market prices. We can sit back and for moralistic reasons ignor those items, but if some collector wishes to fill in his display at fair prices, this is a good time to do it, and if some speculator wishes to take a chance , in America, he also has that right.....Michael

 

[MCKENNA77]

This is just my two cents and theory. I’m sure most collectors suffer from the same syndrome that I do. That syndrome is "collectorism" - you have to have every piece in the set or time period that you collect. I find my brain and my wallet in a struggle over this problem all the time. My guess is that you’re starting to see financial frustration from collectors caused by the recent flood of new K&C pieces. You could buy roughly two regular sets for every one special edition set. Due to this increase in K&C product, if I really like it, I buy it. If I don’t think it’s so hot, I wait on it. If it retires because I waited too long then no big loss because I didn’t think it was too hot anyways.

Just the way I see it. So don’t get me wrong. I like it. I love it. I’ve got a whole butt load of it, and every time my wife gets mad at me she threatens to light it on fire. Andy is going to produce what he produces and the collectors are going to buy what they can afford. I think it’s almost to the point where it doesn’t matter what Andy produces. The quality of the product is so good it sells itself, thus driving the demand even higher. So call it a "special edition" or label it whatever you want - the collectors will buy it.

Take Care and have a great day

Chris McKenna

 

[vandilay]

my experience echos combats,I have never had a problem obtaining
the limited releases.If people buy on e bay thats their perogative
I,ve seen items sell on numerous ocasions higher than retail that can still
be bought from dealers.I bought an Ak 29 only last week from a dealer for slightly above retail because my young fella gave my first one the bounce test [which it failed]
so I realy dont see what all the bru ha ha is about.

 

[Alexdakar]

As a collector, I have never had any trouble getting a KC limited edition item. To my knowledge only a few have ever sold out. So the allegations about mysterious hoarders of KC items is either overstated or to the extent a few folks may actually be doing this it has had little impact on the overall availability of items. Frankly, I am amazed that it is so easy to buy this stuff given that KC produces only a few thousand pieces per item and they sell on a worldwide basis.

I agree with Combat on availability of retired items and if its not easily available then the hunt is on! I too enjoy the hunt for that piece that is missing from my collection which is part of collecting. You can't just base prices on ebay because that is what is ebay is for "the highest bid".

 

[nmrocks]

I have come full circle in this argument. When I first came to these forums, I never imagined that there were collectors and dealers buying or holding multiples of an item for speculation purposes. I was one ticked off puppy and me and Oz got called out by Andy for our opinions against this practice at that time. Before I started collecting K/C ,I was taking serious losses on ebay for my earlier toy soldier collection that I was trying to trim.....Though I do not buy multiples of a K/C item, I have sold retired pieces in order to further my collecting. I have even bought a duplicate item at a good price in order to take advantage of the retired market. I would be foolish to stand on some moral ground for not participating in this sellers market right now. I am torn between the desire that more folks ought be able to own any piece at retail and the legitimate right of a person to do what he wants with the stuff he pays for. That is capitalism at its imperfect finest. As for the K/C stuff being sold on the other forum, those that know, must admit that most are being sold at below market prices. We can sit back and for moralistic reasons ignor those items, but if some collector wishes to fill in his display at fair prices, this is a good time to do it, and if some speculator wishes to take a chance , in America, he also has that right.....Michael

I echo your statement, I have gone through seemingly all the stages of collecting from not paying a premium to must have it all. I have so much now that I'm guilt ridden when I buy more, so I sell older stuff to try and offset the growth( without great success!). I am also at the point were I realize that I don't REALLY want it all, but there is that something that compels me to want it. I find that usually telling myself no for a few weeks and what I truly want becomes clearer. In the next few weeks I'll sell some old stuff on e-bay, get a rediculous price and end up with more than I started with, it's a great hobby and the system as it stands has, made by selling old, my entire collection very inexpensive when it all comes out in the wash.
Ray

 

[kilted vampire]

Limited edition equals enginered collectible. If the product is really nice looking, maybe I will buy it. If it is just the same old thing "caveat emptor". Know what I mean. There are cruds in every hobby. You ought to see all the speculators and cretins in the toy train hobby. Sometimes we get lucky and find something neat. That is really all there is to it isn't it? This is a silly thread. We are all entitled to our opinions. No one can make me buy something because it is "limited".

 

[OzDigger]

Again with the greed this is nonsense. A dealer now has a large collection

for sale on the other forum.....the prices are far above the original retails

but I have not heard one signle complaint. He is simply offering retired items

to the marketplace. Collectors may buy or not its their choice who are we to

judge? The important question is is this dealer a fair guy.....and the answer

is YES. I as well as many others have done business with him and he always

provides a top quality piece as advertised.

A couple of collectors have taken a flyer and bought sever "Limited Items"

they are taking a chance.......maybe they will sell maybe they will sit. You

may notice the last two limited releases are still available.

Lets not judge other collectors.....judge yourself after all thats the only

person you can control.

Njja

The story I heard is that those items are from another collectors basement that was flooded to some degree. And the dealer is now selling them either on behalf of the original owner or as a bulk purchase he made. Either way is fine with me, but frankly I wouldn't pay to much for the unboxed items. In any case I don't see what that matter has to do with this discussion about limited editions.

The fact that I have an opinion on this matter doesn't mean that I am judging people. I am merely making a comment about a practice that I do not like. Some will share my opinion and some will not. However, the fact that most people hate scalpers suggests to me that my opinion will be in the majority. People always seem to find something to try and justify what they do, but that doesn't make it right - that's just my opinion

And I say again to those that are considering King & Country as an investment rather than a hobby. Do you really think that you will make money in the long term from a collectable range in continued production? I don't really like your chances on that gamble.

 

[vandilay]

Hi Oz
I cant imagine too many people would use toys as an investement,
you would have to be interested in toy soldiers any way for it
too even register on your radar.I cant imagine too many wall street
analysts are sitting around mulling over the price of gold,oil and king and country .
Of all the brands of soldiers I collect king and country is the
only brand that currently holds any value.If like me you sell part of your
collection every now and then thats a good thing.
Will this carry on forever,going by other brands probably not.
But i,m not sure why not losing money is a bad thing .
Thats what booze is for.

 

[Chuck Harris]

I just do not understand why some people get so upset how I or anyone else spends their money. If an item is put up for bid, I don't have to bid.
If I get get carried away on a bid stupid me. I love my Toy Soldiers.
I'm all ready retired so they are not and investment to live off of. Yes I've over paid for many of them just because I liked the way they looked.

 

[vandilay]

I just do not understand why some people get so upset how I or anyone else spends their money. If an item is put up for bid, I don't have to bid.
If I get get carried away on a bid stupid me. I love my Toy Soldiers.
I'm all ready retired so they are not and investment to live off of. Yes I've over paid for many of them just because I liked the way they looked.

Hi Chuck

I fully agree, I,m not so sure my wife would

 

[Rob]

Personally i like the set up as it is.Its common sense that things are retired,nobody can go on producing and storing everything for ever.There is great fun in tracking down items you have missed and adding them to your collection.I don't think things are retired at such a rate that its too difficult to keep up with,i find if you plan ahead as much as you can and make allowances for the odd retirement it tends to work.

I very much enjoy the Limited editions,something a little special for the collection.Unfortunately whenever someone starts a collecting hobby there will always be back issues they missed out on.(i did when i started)but thats the nature of things and keeps the market thriving.I don't agree with reissuing ltd editions all the time as this somewhat penalises the people who bought the original,they no longer have an original!.And i'm not talking about this in a monetary sense.The Winter Tiger for instance,its a classic and i would never ever sell it.However if Andy reissued it i feel it would no longer be a one off.

Also(and this has been said many times by many people)but Andy is a shrewd bussiness man and has steered his ship very well.If he decides to retire something its fine by me,his company his call.

Rob

 

[OzDigger]

I just do not understand why some people get so upset how I or anyone else spends their money. If an item is put up for bid, I don't have to bid.

If I get get carried away on a bid stupid me. I love my Toy Soldiers.
I'm all ready retired so they are not and investment to live off of. Yes I've over paid for many of them just because I liked the way they looked.

I'm not upset Chuck, see I'm smiling and glad to see you back

I just wouldn't like to see people over spending on King & Country with the belief they are making a sound 'investment' in addition to buying something they like. These things may be doing ok on eBay now, but in the long term I'd recommend realestate over toys anyday

There is no shortage of positive vibes on this forum about the advantages of buying this or that set. And the prospect of some appreciation in value is often one of the main hooks. I'm merely advising some due caution in this area. And as I've always said "Just buy what you like, that way you can't go wrong".

 

[King & Country]

Hi Guys,

Re my last post...believe me no offence was taken by me of Tim's (Fishead) robust disliking of limited editions and retirements. I hope he and everyone else were also not offended by my equally robust defense of both subjects.

That's what makes this particular forum so much fun and a great source of pride...joy...and occasionally...frustration.

All of us love toy soldiers and we all come from a thousand different angles to look at these little objects of delight in a thousand different ways.

Vive la difference!

Best wishes to one and all and...happy collecting!

Andy C.

 

[King & Country]

Hi Guys,

When it comes to toy soldiers/ military miniatures...first and foremost buy an item because you like it!

If that same item increases in value (for whatever reason) then hooray...you’ve won a watch. The whole ebay phenomena is something that caught me totally by surprise...I’ve never bought anything on it or sold anything on it.

Like some other “posters” on this thread I’ve often been shocked and stunned by some of the prices old K&C has sold for. However it’s always up to the individual collector in the end...what one guy is willing to sell a piece for...and...how much another is willing to pay for that same item. That’s the beauty of a free society. We are all free to choose what we like...what we don’t like...what we buy...and what we don’t buy.

I think, one way or another, I agree with about 99% of what most of you have written on this thread.

That’s all for now...best wishes and...happy collecting!

Andy C.

 

[Njja]

Another side to this discussion is the fact that the individual that has the

most to say about King & Country......the marketplace......retired items.....

ect has repeatly expressed his displeasure with the product.......so why does

anyone care what his opinion is?

Since I am not a diecast nascar fan I do not seek out their Forums to point

out my lack of interest in their products.

Just something to ponder.

Njja

 

[Rob]

That is a fair point.I have heard people constantly criticise or snipe at K&C on this forum,and they do have the right to.But i do wonder why they bother?.If you dislike the product so much,buy something else!.Just a wonderment,each to their own of course.

Rob

 

[Capitolron]

WOW

I leave for Florida to sell a few TANKS and you guys get a humdinger of a thread going.......

First off - to combat, njja, Louis and everyone else - I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ON COLLECTING.

Everyone should buy what they like and sell when or what ever they want. Matter of fact you should buy what you don't like too - its your choice. I have been a regular on ebay and have put parts of my old collection up for auction and sold them based on what peolpe wanted to pay for them - you didnt have to buy my figures if you didnt like the price and since they were my figures to begin with - to heck with you if you didnt like what they were being sold for. I perfer a capitalistic society were the owner and the buyer make the rules - not some COMMUNISTS / SOCIALISTS who feel they know better

BIG POINT TO REMEMBER:

The reason why Britians and others have had problems and business failures is the way they have handeled thier products. The lack of quality and the abundent quanity has caused major problems for them over the years.

KING AND COUNTRY (Andy) has found the success model. RETIRING figures create value and worth of your purchase. I would think everyone would like to buy something and have the value increase to what you have bought regardless if that was your intention or not. LIMITED EDITIONS are just that - limited - not meant for mass production. You decide how and what your collection will be - NOT ANDY - buy what you want and only collect what you want of afford.

Yes, it is hard to buy everything - I can't - and it is frustrating not to have some of those great figures that come out - but, hey - THATS LIFE, GET OVER IT. "We can't always get what we want" - Mick Jagger

As for Andy - Yes, I am proud to say that I worship the man, myth and legend. Once in a while in human history people come along and change the world for the better - in the TOY SOLDIER WORLD - Andy has done it. His product is trhe best bar none and it has forced everyone else in the industry to reach higher in their own quality - which good for us all.

So, Thank you Andy and happy collecting,

Ron

 

[Njja]

Very well spoken CapitolRon!

Njja

 

[Vezzolf]

I read back my post on the other thread and I did kind of come on strong about the whole subject and I apologize to any one I my have offended with my post. I guess I must have had a hair across somewhere when I posted it.
I see how some of you veiw this hobby as art collecting and at the prices for some of this stuff
It can be frustrating at times and hard on the wallet tring to keep up and when iteams get retired and the only way to get an iteam is on ebay for twice the origanal price because its been retired!

So I,m sure there are many others out there that see no fault in the anger and frustration in my post having dealt with the same thing themselfs.

So sorry to anyone who I may have upset even though I still Hate retirements!!!

Don't apologize.....when you speak the truth........Your arguement is valid and honest regarding "RETIRED" items .......If others are offended that's their problem......

 

[Capitolron]

Don't apologize.....when you speak the truth........Your arguement is valid and honest regarding "RETIRED" items .......If others are offended that's their problem......

Vezzolf -

I also agree with you.

In a free society anyone can and should express their opinion. Tim has every right to voice his opinion and we have every right to let it be heard or not heard.

We also have a free market system and it works well too.

Ron