Andy's Talk at 2010 Chicago Show (1 Viewer)

[Steven Chong]

Before I summarize Andy's talk, I want to thank Peter and Shannon Reuss of Treefrog Treasures, Mike and Myszka Hall of Sierra Toy Soldier Company, and Tim Tyler of Troops of Time for the wonderful dinner. I took 8 pages of notes and will summarize Andy's talk in this post, and follow with the questions and answers in the next few days.

Andy started by thanking the hosts for organizing the dinner and recognizing the hard working members of K&C at the dinner, his brother Gordon Neilson, Patrick Lee and Helen Mok Sargent.

Andy talked about K&C's history. In the 1970's, Andy was working in Hong Kong when his brother Gordon gave him a box of glossy Royal Marine toy soldiers as a birthday gift. This gift rewakened an interest in toy soldiers from his childhood and Andy started collecting. Soon became frustrated with the long wait time for orders from UK, sometimes as long as 9 months. Then wife Laura told him, "This is Hong Kong, the toy capital of the world ... why don't we make our own."

When he needed a name for this new company, Andy knew he wanted a name with a British heritage. But the great names had been used: Tradition, Steadfast, etc. One day, he was walking in a mall and saw the clothing retailers "Kent & Curran" and "Abercombie & Finch" and decided he wanted a name with the "&." One of Andy's favorite movies is "For King & Country" with Dick Bogart and in a moment of inspiration decided on "King & Country."

Andy was lucky to be in Hong Kong as China was opening up and eventually found a factory in China willing to take a chance and make toy soldiers. They were manufacturing plastic Christmas ornaments at the time. Andy believes K&C was the 1st company to manufacture toy soldiers in China.

Later, Andy was in Britain with samples from this factory and visited Britains, offering to do figures with them. He was told by managment that no one would buy soldiers made in China, only those produced in Britain. He was then taken on tour of factory and noticed that all the employees were from Bangladesh, there was not a single caucasian in the painting room. Decided to ignore advice of Britains.

At 1995 Chicago Show, Andy learned a very important lesson when he noticed a crowd around another table. He went to look and discovered his Hong Kong rivals, Frontline, had set up the entire Charge of the Light Brigade on their table. Could not sleep that night and decided K&C needed a unique style and own approach. WWII in realistic matt was not done at the time and finally decided to focus on one battle: Arnhem. In 1994-95, K&C was the first company to do an entire series (Arnhem) in matt. K&C established a name for itself and became noticed for its different line.

In 1998, Andy heard about a movie about D-Day called Saving Private Ryan and directed by Speilberg was in production -- did not know stars or anything else about movie. Decided to do U.S. paratroopers and rangers and came with 40 ses of each. On Sunday morning after two days of room trading, only 6 sets were left. At the right place at the right time. Look at market and what will appeal. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loss.

Andy mentioned that during the current two year economic problems, K&C amazingly saw no major drop in its toy soldier market unlike others. His theory is that collectors want to cheer themselves up toy soldiers does this. Lots of blood, sweat and tears put into K&C, but products with great value and enjoyment are created.

His good friend, Louis Badolato, has called this time the "Golden Age of Toy Soldier Collecting." There never has been so much choice. Like many, Andy is addicted to the Treefrog Forum despite the ocassional criticism. Perfectly OK to say you like something else since you have choice in what to collect. K&C has been around 27 years, here to stay, here to fight.

Andy then asked for questions which will be summarized in future post.

 

[Steven Chong]

Question 1: Collector asked for themes like Napoleon's retreat from Moscow or burning of eagles. Many great stories but K&C needs to concentrate on what will appeal most. As subject matter these ideas are limited. Want subjects that can be extended and have staying power.

Question 2: How do you stay in touch with market and know what customer wants? Events like this dinner and traveling around the world to talk to dealers and collectors. Have been in U.S. for 3 weeks, talked to collectors here and in CA and San Antonio and heard wide range of ideas and suggestions. Last year, Andy was in states in March, Korea in April ... Australia, Europe, States again, Europe in Christmas with visits to Paris, Florence and Rome. Was on road for 3 months meeting hundreds of collectors and building up personal relationships and talking. Receives about 10 to 20 e-mails per day and trys to make a point of answering every e-mail personally. Constantly talking to dealers. What is selling? What is not selling? Then gut instinct ... mostly right.

Question 3: What is your favorite time period (not commercial)? Cannot take off business hat. K&C employs 26 people and many people depend on K&C's decisions. Lucky that most of what K&C does is sucessful. Never going to get it 100% right.

Question 4: Glossy figures again? "Never say never again." Overall, glossy is becoming less and less of the figures produced though glossy will probably always be around. However, it will never again replace matt in popularity.

[That's it for now, have to pack for return home. There are still 13 questions with several quite lengthy.]

 

[IXEC]

And on the 7th day he rested....

 

[Panzer]

Thanks Steven. Great report as always. Looking forward to the rest of the Q&A.
Semper Fi!
Rick

 

[Steven Chong]

Question 5: Collector asked Andy to comment on collectors reaching a saturation point where there is too much product being produced to display it. Compared to other countries, U.S. homes have lots of space. If you are running out of space, you always have the option of selling off older items, getting a good return. You have money in your pocket to buy something new (hopefully K&C), and you are creating space to display new items. There is a constant demand for the stuff we no longer produce.

Same collector also asked Andy what he has learned from his competitors? As previously stated, this is a golden age. A good friend of his in Hong Kong asked him 6 to 7 years ago who was his biggest competitor and his answer was no one. Last several years, there has been lots of competition. Don't want to be only leaf on a tree. They have developed own style and K&C looks at them. There are good ideas out there. Quality has never been higher. Variety has never been higher. But cost of stuff has never been higher. Collectors have driven up prices ... on Treefrog, reads all the demands and wants. Some bad, but some of the best ideas from collectors.
Competition has toughen us. We watch our back. Watch everything they do. Have pulled apart some things ... how did they do it? Why did they do it? Can we do better? Will continue to get better because there is always someone trying to do better.

Question 6: How does political correctness influence toy soldier industry? Well, K&C probably has one of the most incorrect themes. Doesn't matter. We are in history business. Tell it like it is. It happened. Gave example of person very upset by a display in the Hong Kong store window and his reply for that person to first ask book store and video store in mall to remove all the material which mentions this theme and when they do it, K&C will do it. Where do you draw line? No Stars and Bars because of slavery issue? Zulu's and images of blacks? Cannot change history. P.C. has no place in collecting toy soldiers. Will put warning signs. Ignorance causes wars.

Question 7: What about Pacific theater polystone warbirds? Polystone warbirds provide support for all the maintenance figures and vehicles which is harder in Pacific. Production planned for next yr. and no plans for Pacific.

Question 8: Why so many Nazi's in market? Because they sell. Uniforms so cool. You can be shocked by their deeds but still collect them. Try to educate kids about history.

Question 9: What about controversy with Gestapo figures with tortured figure? Set shows guy being arrested. For all we know, he could live to be rescued. At end of day, it's my money and I want to make sure it sells.

Question 10: If you redid glossy figures, what would be historical time? 1880 to 1910.

[Still 7 questions to go but next one is very long]

 

[glossman]

Hi Steven,

Thanks very much for your well written summary of the K&C talk.

It is good to know what was said, although most of it was not new.

Please keep going with the Q&As, no matter how long the replies.

Great Job !!

Thanks, Raymond.

 

[Steven Chong]

Question 11: How long to develop a new line from concept to shipment? Normally 4-6 months. Longest was 8 months with quickest 2 months. Process starts with idea ... weekly production meeting where ideas discussed to get a general idea, then Andy researches in K&C's large reference library and on the internet. He then sketches 4 to 6 figures per day. Drawings present to rest of K&C design staff and after joint consultation, figures are chosen. Every few weeks go to K&C's workshop in China and shows sketches, books, DVD's, etc. to sculptors. 2 weeks later see first sculpts. Andy believes the eye and hand are best for looking at figures with computers not good enough in his opinion. Clay masters then converted to resin, mold made, cast and sample figure given to master painter. Painted sample then given to factory and 5 counter samples that are fully painted and done are provided which are rigorously inspected for any flaws and incorrect details. After final approval, see finished production in 2 to 3 months. Dont's own factory with all production subcontracted. Every single piece inspected before leaving factory, then shipped to Hong Kong and checked again before packaged and shipped to collectors. Sometimes production rushed to make market. There are ocassional duds but figures made from mixture of lead, tin and antimony so duds can be remelted to reuse metal. Fortunately, most lemons occur at casting stage.

Question 12: Polish Campaign? U.S. is big market and collectors there want battles involving U.S.

Question 13: Paint for Repairs? Water based acrylic paint used.

Question 14: Why colors of figures so vibrant? Its K&C's painting style. Each manufacturer has unique style, like a signature. Figures not meant to be seen magnified so collectors should not be criticizing a figure based on a magnified image. K&C actually never shows a figure's actual size in ads. Uses 3/4 or 5/6 photo since more realistic and like real life viewing of figure.

Question 15: Napoleonic plumes subject to breakage ... consider providing plumes not glued? Can see many complaints of missing plumes after it is accidently throw out with box or packaging. K&C looking into casting plumes with strong metal pins.

Question 16: Problems with foam packaging? K&C will be cutting using die cut foam from now on and collectors will be seeing it soon. But die cut is more expensive.

Question 17: Why do toy soldiers cost so much? The cost of producing figures is becoming more expensive. Workers want more money. Increased cost of living in China. Increased transportation costs. Increased cost of raw materials. When K&C first started, Chinese factories were working 7 days with double shifts. Recent labor law changes limited work weeks to 5 1/2 days with single shifts of max. 8-9 hours. Collecting toy soldiers not cheap. Buy it because you like it. Also the numbers made are actually very small. WS43 Wittman's Last Tiger is K&C's most produced set but over 2 year period only made 2000. Britains in its heyday made toy soldiers in the millions. Products give hours of enjoyment and can give return if you need it.

 

[Mitch]

Interesting stuff. In relation to the US market being the largest and wanting only battles with the US in would there not be a possibility indeed, an advantage of say doing a run for the European market based on european battles before the US got into WWII in say limited runs?? I know we have FOB but, do small runs of certain soldiers and AFV's from early war battles
Mitch

 

[UK_BOD]

Thanks Steven.

Some interesting answers there. I'm surprised that Wittman's Last Tiger is still the most produced tank at 2000.

Andy

 

[lancer]

Interesting stuff. In relation to the US market being the largest and wanting only battles with the US in would there not be a possibility indeed, an advantage of say doing a run for the European market based on european battles before the US got into WWII in say limited runs?? I know we have FOB but, do small runs of certain soldiers and AFV's from early war battles
Mitch

Heck, KC already does FOB (as mentioned), North Africa, Battle of Britain. All this is before US entered war. What more should he do? I can see possible Polish Campaign (kind of Eastern Front, though) or maybe a bit on the Norway Campaign. I think these are iffy from a sales point of view, although I kind of like the Polish Campaign idea with it's armor and aircraft possibilities. Europe is pretty well covered. Now, about the far east.... -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

I'm a little surprised about the answer to number 12, particularly as it may apply to FoB, unless buying patterns changed, because at the time FoB first came out, Andy said something to the effect that they expected FoB to be popular with European audiences but were quite surprised at the positive response from American audiences. However, perhaps the popularity of FoB has diminished as the US customer base has developed and grown.

 

[wds0855]

I have really enjoyed this summary of the discussion with Andy. Thank you very much for all the details.

Did Andy have previews of any sketches of upcoming figures? (I love his sketches, he is a great artist).

Walt

 

[Steven Chong]

I have really enjoyed this summary of the discussion with Andy. Thank you very much for all the details.

Did Andy have previews of any sketches of upcoming figures? (I love his sketches, he is a great artist).

Walt

There was no sketches of upcoming figures. All the attendees received 4 sketches of previously released figures.

 

[CrawlingGuy]

The change in packaging materials is much needed.

I started with K&C, the went cold turkey after receiving sets that were pulverized after working loose from the foam and banging against each other for hundreds of miles in the back of a UPS semi.

Why spend the money on something that is supposed to be fun and have it turn into nothing but hassles? Dealing with a justifiably irritated seller that did nothing but trust K&C packaging was adequate was FAR less than enjoyable.

Too many areas of the lower 48 have no place to see K&C in person and have to trust to quality packaging.

I found it amusing that the sellers that sold single figures used FAR better packaging than K&C itself.

Those few figures I wanted and that weren't sold out? I bought the single figure only. It takes two to fight and buying a single figure avoided the issue of lead on lead violence.

 

[jules118]

The change in packaging materials is much needed...
I found it amusing that the sellers that sold single figures used FAR better packaging than K&C itself.
....

I did not realise the the packaging caused so many problems for K&C to consider changing it. I've only had one package turn up where the figures were damaged ...And to give Andy and the K&C Hong Kong crew credit, they replaced it free of charge, no questions asked and without even seeing the damage. Their willingness to resolve a potential problem ensured that it did not become one and impressed the **** out of me when I compare it to some other mail order shopping experiences I have had.

 

[Mitch]

I think the only problem I have seen with packaging was the LAH figures when they tried to use a harder plastic with what I call flock effect and wrapped hard plastic twisted around the figure which, caused chipping to the black uniforms. Really disliked that but, cannot see why the change is needed
Mitch

 

[arnhem44mad]

What about that laser-cut foam?

It was fine?

 

[arnhem44mad]

Was there a chicago dinner figure?

 

[jazzeum]

Yes, a WWI figure.

 

[arnhem44mad]

Yes, a WWI figure.

Cool mate cheers!