Anyone notice the cost of our hobby is going up? (1 Viewer)

Well at the very least we have given Andy C. our honest opinions and

ideas on the various subjects. We can only hope he views these opinions as

views from fellow collectors that appreciate his product line. I think we all

agree that we want to see its continued success and growth. Lets hope these

issues can be resolved to the benefit of all.

Njja:)
 
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What if…

Market demand has expanded; I mean most of the adverse comments on these forums have been geared at over productions and the obvious effect to collector’s investment and the secondary market.

But what if the market could sustain the increase production for 1/32 and 1/30? Maybe Andy C., Richard Walker, Richard Conte, etc. have done some formal and informal market research including looking at their increased sales figures?

Contrary to recent posts on both Forums, I believe that Andy C. is probably one of the hardest working owners in the business and that his success was no accident.

Maybe there is a global economic slowdown but that isn’t the case in most of America despite rising energy costs and we represent a significant portion of consumers. Maybe the toy soldiers retail store sales are flat or decreasing but that internet outlets and I understand sales generate from shows are very healthy. Is it possible that the base of clients has expanded but in ways that are invisible to the traditional toy soldier collector therefore there is real growth in the industry?

If this is the case, then the market can sustain increased production runs, larger “strictly limited edition” runs and delayed “retirement” announcements. If that is the case, then wouldn’t it be a bit presumptuous and maybe a bit arrogant of us to demand that Andy reveal to us market data supporting his new business strategy and increased production runs as a condition of our continued loyalty and under threat of abandoning King and Country if he doesn’t? Heck I know his competitors would love this information.

What if most of the participants on this forum and the other aren’t a representative sample of the emerging toy soldier collector/ accumulators population? If so, maybe the emerging collector has different tastes and reasons for collecting that doesn’t necessary put a premium on resale value in the secondary markets.

My speculation is that only the manufacturers, web distributors and distributors that generate most of their sales through shows know for sure. As I said in the other Forum, if demand has increased significantly enough sustain continued production runs then we’re truly in a Renaissance era; where the collector has never had some many quality choices from so many producers.

If this is the case, enjoy it!

Carlos
 
Pierre said:
Producing a set at 1 250 exemplaries, labeling it "Strickly Limited Edition" and selling it at 200,00$ US is not opportunism?
Pierre.

Sorry Pierre, I thought you were making a statement despite the question mark. After a revision I now see your line of thought. I could only speculate because I'm not aware of the cost of production. Perhaps King and Country are overcharging. Which may be partly the fault of us collectors as we seem so rabid about buying the Strictly Limited pieces. And it's not unusual for sellers to price items as high as the market will tolerate.

As for your second and third comments, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree as Brad and I often do :)
 
nmrocks said:
The "Strictly Limited " title should be based on a simple formula based on a percentage of standard production models.
As for the secondary market, why would Andy want to see money spent on his sets sucked away by an overpriced secondary market instead of his new sets?
My problem is I can't keep up with all the new material and it makes me heart sick.
Ray

I don't disagree with your percentage idea. I'm just not sure that there is standard finite production number as it's likely to depend upon the popularity of each piece or set. For example some of the LAH pieces just keep coming and coming. I understand that there may be an initial run, but if they keep selling wouldn't it make sense to keep producing, especially if you're a canny Scot :)

I totally agree that Andy is unlikely to want collectors to spend to much on the secondary market. It does not add to the King and Country bottom line despite it being some endorsement of their collectability.

These days I prefer to cherry pick selected pieces rather than try and collect everything.
 
You're right Oz, Andy does commonly refer to "Additional Runs" of particular items. That still shouldn't prevent Andy from fixing a number based on initial estimates, perhaps that is what he has already done? I mentioned in another string about how I would have liked to have seen the SL be a less commom vehicle than the 251, you know we're going to see plenty of those based off this model.

As for my collecting habits, With the proliferation of products I've had to refine my collecting on a regular basis.
First I Gave up all my other collecting to afford Toy soldiers, next I sold all others to collect K&C. Next I gave up any serious investment in anything but WWII, now I find I must further refine my choices to individual theaters under the WWII umbrella.
Just can't afford it all.
Ray
 
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What is so difficult for a hobby shop and the industry (and the reason why for every one shop that opens 4 close) is that many producers still have not figured out that while the hobby is very wide it is not deep. You have all these different groups collecting certain things but not much more than a few hundred in each group.

With a 50% increase in marketing budget is it acceptable to only pull a few hundred more collectors? Out of which maybe a dozen will collect "everything"? This is a serious issue when it comes to production and the cost of attracting new customers.

It's really a tight rope to walk. Toy soldier companies really need to better get them selves out there and play in several different markets.

As an example, I sell a lot of toys geared for children - I wanted to carry only the Britains Deetail series to start with but I was told that as an internet business I had to comit my self to the entire range. Is that a smart thing to do? No. It's self destructive. It is 8,000 (my web traffic) less people per month seeing their products on my website. Fact is, many of the people who visit my site do not remember or know the Britains name - why would they (Britains) want that exposure, afterall - they are Britains - right?

My point is that there is simply not enough people to sustain this entire hobby as a whole. Makers, retailers and collectors would be wise to promote this hobby before it dies and production either slows dramatically, prices go thru the roof and people forget.

This all comes out of a wonderful tradition that goes back thousands of years. It would be a shame if it went away.
 
To be honest I was a collector of military antiques and I thought that investing money in a toy was NOT an investiment at all....as a general rule. I have since sold my antiques and made alot of money. I started buying toy soldiers because I found it affordable BUT what I'm starting to see is that the real antique items are becoming cheaper than a toy......:rolleyes: I collect these toys because I enjoy them but I really DON'T expect to make any sort of return on them at all, I will most likely leave them to my kids.

If you want a REAL rush..try searching and searching in antique shops for REAL military antiques, talking to veterans who give you pieces whether it be from there own uniforms or captured from the enemy as well as getting an education from it in the process....each piece is rare and each has a story....the value of the piece 99% of the time went up they all were real investments, although I never collected them with that in mind. I only wanted to be sure I could get my money back.....it was inevitable that the pieces would increase in value they were real artifacts not toys. They Were NOT bought off a shelf and kept by thousands of collectors in mint condition because someone told them they were limited etc. People gave there lives for these military items some of which were with them when they died and were sent home to their families.....they all have a story to tell and I could tell you how much I paid for each item and where I found the piece and in many case the history behind it because each piece was a true treasure found.

I had over 60 complete uniforms from head to toe..each piece of each uniform came with hard hard work looking for it money was a second consideration the real task at hand was getting your hands on it. You want to talk about rare... picture this "you have been looking for 10 years for one piece that will complete a uniform...you have almost given up...you have looked everywhere, other collectors and dealers have told you they have never seen one not even in a museum only in pictures... you find it finally in a little antique shop miles out of some little town.... it is $2000.00 dollars, the store owner tells you the piece belonged to a local war vet who was well known that had died several years ago...you think that it is alot of money so you think I'll wait and look for another....NOT....you would buy it because you may NEVER see it again...it is RARE. Just think about the time and effort you lose by looking another 10 years..like you would ever find another anyway, it wouldn't matter if you had a milion dollars like the expression use to go in military collecting " GO FIND ONE"...you would be an idiot for not buying it and you would forever be sorry.

I guess you are wondering what this has todo with collecting toy soldiers.... what I'm really trying to say is this collecting these toy soldiers is NOT an investment in most cases...perhaps the only investment in toys or any collectible for that matter are the ones that were made years ago when NO ONE cared about them they were abused and thrown out. In fact, probably viewed in their end days as JUNK!!!!

IF YOU WANT TO SEE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERES ONE THAT HUMBLES ME EVERY TIME I OPEN UP HIS WEB PAGE....I don't know if you have heard of Don Trioni but he paints military pictures and sells the originals and sells LIMITED prints from the originals for huge money. I have boughten several of these because I like them..they are alot of money. If you look at the bottom of his web page he states he is looking for MILITARY ANTIQUES and is willing to buy them or trade them for his original pieces of art.....hmmmmmm he even puts more value into military antiques then his own works of art which are LIMITED.

Check it out:

http://www.historicalartprints.com/

WELLINGTON

REMEMBER MILITARY ANTIQUES WERE NOT CONSIDERED VALUABLE OR COLLECTORS ITEMS AT ONE TIME THEY WERE CONSIDERED SURPLUS CHEAP GARBAGE..THIS IS WHY THEY ARE RARE TODAY AND IN GENERAL TERMS VALUABLE OR PRICELESS!!!!
 
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wellington said:
To be honest I was a collector of military antiques and I thought that investing money in a toy was NOT an investiment at all....as a general rule. I have since sold my antiques and made alot of money. I started buying toy soldiers because I found it affordable BUT what I'm starting to see is that the real antique items are becoming cheaper than a toy......:rolleyes: I collect these toys because I enjoy them but I really DON'T expect to make any sort of return on them at all, I will most likely leave them to my kids.

If you want a REAL rush..try searching and searching in antique shops for REAL military antiques, talking to veterans who give you pieces whether it be from there own uniforms or captured from the enemy as well as getting an education from it in the process....each piece is rare and each has a story....the value of the piece 99% of the time went up they all were real investments, although I never collected them with that in mind. I only wanted to be sure I could get my money back.....it was inevitable that the pieces would increase in value they were real artifacts not toys. They Were NOT bought off a shelf and kept by thousands of collectors in mint condition because someone told them they were limited etc. People gave there lives for these military items some of which were with them when they died and were sent home to their families.....they all have a story to tell and I could tell you how much I paid for each item and where I found the piece and in many case the history behind it because each piece was a true treasure found.

I had over 60 complete uniforms from head to toe..each piece of each uniform came with hard hard work looking for it money was a second consideration the real task at hand was getting your hands on it. You want to talk about rare... picture this "you have been looking for 10 years for one piece that will complete a uniform...you have almost given up...you have looked everywhere, other collectors and dealers have told you they have never seen one not even in a museum only in pictures... you find it finally in a little antique shop miles out of some little town.... it is $2000.00 dollars, the store owner tells you the piece belonged to a local war vet who was well known that had died several years ago...you think that it is alot of money so you think I'll wait and look for another....NOT....you would buy it because you may NEVER see it again...it is RARE. Just think about the time and effort you lose by looking another 10 years..like you would ever find another anyway, it wouldn't matter if you had a milion dollars like the expression use to go in military collecting " GO FIND ONE"...you would be an idiot for not buying it and you would forever be sorry.

I guess you are wondering what this has todo with collecting toy soldiers.... what I'm really trying to say is this collecting these toy soldiers is NOT an investment in most cases...perhaps the only investment in toys or any collectible for that matter are the ones that were made years ago when NO ONE cared about them they were abused and thrown out. In fact, probably viewed in their end days as JUNK!!!!

IF YOU WANT TO SEE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERES ONE THAT HUMBLES ME EVERY TIME I OPEN UP HIS WEB PAGE....I don't know if you have heard of Don Trioni but he paints military pictures and sells the originals and sells LIMITED prints from the originals for huge money. I have boughten several of these because I like them..they are alot of money. If you look at the bottom of his web page he states he is looking for MILITARY ANTIQUES and is willing to buy them or trade them for his original pieces of art.....hmmmmmm he even puts more value into military antiques then his own works of art which are LIMITED.

Check it out:

http://www.historicalartprints.com/

WELLINGTON

REMEMBER MILITARY ANTIQUES WERE NOT CONSIDERED VALUABLE OR COLLECTORS ITEMS AT ONE TIME THEY WERE CONSIDERED SURPLUS CHEAP GARBAGE..THIS IS WHY THEY ARE RARE TODAY AND IN GENERAL TERMS VALUABLE OR PRICELESS!!!!

An ABSOLUTE AMEN, Brother. Thanks for reminding us what is truly valuable in this world of the fast and immediate buck...Michael
 

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