Armour Enthusiats Opinions Needed! (1 Viewer)

[Cyber Field Marshall]

As an avid TREEFROGGER I have noticed many praises and criticisms of K&C armour for a host of reasons. One that comes up time and again is the idea of crewed tanks. Recently some people have criticized the new AK Pz. III because it lacks an extra crew member that the original had. Yet I've also heard many complaints that in combat situations there shouldn't be any crew at all and having crew outside the tank looks stupid in a diorama!
Would it be possible to buy all tanks with no crew at all but have working hatches for all new releases. Follow me, K&C could then manufacture a wide variety of crews separately for collectors who want them. This could potentially satisfy the needs of various collectors. I've noticed recently other manufacturers have "built in" various uses for one piece ( ex. a damaged or undamaged halftrack ) so perhaps this is not so far fetched?
What do we think?

 

[Blowtorch]

I would bet money that this idea has been discussed @ K&C Central HQ, and only one person on earth can answer your question, and all further discussion here will be futile.

 

[lancer]

Collector's Showcase already offers the operating hatches. You can display the vehicles with figures in them or as buttoned up, battle ready. I see no reason that KC could not do the same thing because CS is price competitive with KC and the operating hatch cost problem seems to have been solved by CS. KC has done seperate crews for both German and Allied tanks. -- lancer

 

[binder001]

An interesting idea that offers up more flexibility. I hate to be the naysayer, but here are some problems that may cause this to not be adopted; 1) Andy can be sure of selling the same number of crewmen as tanks - that makes production decisions easier and he's not stuck with a mismatch between vehicles and crews, 2) Andy is an artist and intends each piece to be able to stand on its own, including the figure(s) - that is one reason he is not big into repaints, 3) Operating hatch hinges have to be either frail or oversized leading to unhappy collectors in either case. Look at the gross lumps on 21C vehicles due to the opening hatches. If Andy were aiming at a different market I would think he would take up that idea and make it work.

At one time he DID talk about making extra tanker figures. I wouldn't mind seeing a few extra GI WW2 tankers sold as "singles" to add variety.

Gary B.

 

[forlornhoper]

In scale models single figures on or in AFVs are designed to give the model scale rather than add any realism,even tho a well modelled figure can add to the distinctive look of the model.Model AFVs that depict all the crew,is clearly showing the tank in running mode not in combat,tanks in combat tend to show no crew at all ,since the tank is in "hatches down",but in WW2 commanders out of necessity and were encouraged to do so,went into combat "heads out" in order to signal other tank commanders in the heat of battle and also get a better feel and view of their situation,even when 360 degree sights were fitted to commander cupolas,most commanders preferred the "heads out" position. Therefore K&C collectors should make appropriate dioramas to suit the mode of the AFV they have bought.As a collector of scale model AFVs for some years,i personally like the K&C AFVs fully crewed as few fine scale modellers fully crew their AFVs,some will do it as an exception father than the rule.Interchangeable crews could work,but at what cost to the collector?

 

[rpk]

I guess I don't mind getting a tank with a single figure, as you can always add the tank rider sets if you need to flesh them out a bit. I think the Mk. III is fine in that regard. Having a driver, or some other half figure, is nice, but I would be fine with a commander in the turret and a well sculpted, accurate, model. Working hinges would be cool for various display options, but as noted already the hinges would be fragile (Figarti) or oversized (CS), which causes problems.

 

[arnhem44mad]

As an avid TREEFROGGER I have noticed many praises and criticisms of K&C armour for a host of reasons. One that comes up time and again is the idea of crewed tanks. Recently some people have criticized the new AK Pz. III because it lacks an extra crew member that the original had. Yet I've also heard many complaints that in combat situations there shouldn't be any crew at all and having crew outside the tank looks stupid in a diorama!
Would it be possible to buy all tanks with no crew at all but have working hatches for all new releases. Follow me, K&C could then manufacture a wide variety of crews separately for collectors who want them. This could potentially satisfy the needs of various collectors. I've noticed recently other manufacturers have "built in" various uses for one piece ( ex. a damaged or undamaged halftrack ) so perhaps this is not so far fetched?
What do we think?

I totally agree!

King and Country could then bring out crew in different poses, maybe fighting, or relaxing, or even dead and wounded!

But I kind of like the fact that King and Country has different figures for each tank, or vehcle, althought it would make seeing other collectors dioramas and sets very, very interesting!

 

[6th Wisconsin]

I totally agree!

King and Country could then bring out crew in different poses, maybe fighting, or relaxing, or even dead and wounded!

But I kind of like the fact that King and Country has different figures for each tank, or vehcle, althought it would make seeing other collectors dioramas and sets very, very interesting!

I agree too. Definitely works better in combat to have no crew outside getting their heads blown off.

 

[uksubs]

As an avid TREEFROGGER I have noticed many praises and criticisms of K&C armour for a host of reasons. One that comes up time and again is the idea of crewed tanks. Recently some people have criticized the new AK Pz. III because it lacks an extra crew member that the original had. Yet I've also heard many complaints that in combat situations there shouldn't be any crew at all and having crew outside the tank looks stupid in a diorama!
Would it be possible to buy all tanks with no crew at all but have working hatches for all new releases. Follow me, K&C could then manufacture a wide variety of crews separately for collectors who want them. This could potentially satisfy the needs of various collectors. I've noticed recently other manufacturers have "built in" various uses for one piece ( ex. a damaged or undamaged halftrack ) so perhaps this is not so far fetched?
What do we think?

Just read a book by a top German tank ace & he said one of the reason they got more kills was that they attacked from the open turret & said that button down the turret was a bad habit of allied tankers

 

[Humbug]

How about a model with a separate hatch so that the buyer can decide whether to attach (glue) it in the open or closed position. No intricate or oversized hinges needed.

 

[nasirkasmani]

Just read a book by a top German tank ace & he said one of the reason they got more kills was that they attacked from the open turret & said that button down the turret was a bad habit of allied tankers

hi mate,

whose book is this? is it Knight Cross holder Leutnant Otto Carius?
sounds very interesting..

 

[Major Major]

Crew probably closed hatches after getting shot at.. Though must say it is nice to have a choice of open/closed hatches like on the recent King Tiger

 

[fmethorst]

Just read a book by a top German tank ace & he said one of the reason they got more kills was that they attacked from the open turret & said that button down the turret was a bad habit of allied tankers

hi mate,

whose book is this? is it Knight Cross holder Leutnant Otto Carius?
sounds very interesting..

It really comes down to situational awareness. You can't make good decisions with only partial information.

I "borrowed" this post off the internet so I can't vouch for it's authenticity

Here’s what Otto Carius has to say about buttoning up in “Tigers in the Mud” p. 117-119.

“The most important consideration came after all the material conditions were filled. The personal aggressiveness of the commander while observing was decisive for success against numerically vastly superior enemy formations. The lack of good observation by the Russians often resulted in the defeat of large units. Tank commanders who slam their hatches shut at the beginning of an attack and don’t open them again until the objective has been reached are useless, or at least second rate. There are, of course, six to eight vision blocks mounted in a circle in every cupola that allow observation. But they are only good for a certain sector of the terrain, limited by the size of the individual vision block. If the commander is looking through the left vision block when an anti-tank gun opens fire from the right, then he will need a long time before he identifies it from inside the buttoned up tank.

“Unfortunately, impacting rounds are felt before the sound of the enemy gun’s report, because the speed of the round is greater than the speed of sound. Therefore, a tank commander’s eyes are more important than his ears. As a result of rounds exploding in the vicinity, one doesn’t hear the gun’s report at all in the tank. It is quite different whenever the tank commander raises his head occasionally in an open hatch to survey the terrain. If he happens to look halfway to the left while an enemy antitank gun opens fire halfway to the right, his eye will subconsciously catch the shimmer of the yellow muzzle flash. His attention will immediately be directed toward the new direction and the target will usually be identified in time. Everything depends on the proper identification of a dangerous target. Usually, seconds decide. What I said above also applies to tanks that have been equipped with a periscope.
…
“No one can deny that the many casualties among the officers and other tank commanders were due to exposing their heads. But these men didn’t die in vain. If they had moved with closed hatches, then many more men would have found their death or been severely wounded inside the tanks. The large Russian tank losses is proof of the correctness of this assertion. Fortunately for us, they almost always drove cross-country buttoned up. Of course, every tank commander had to be careful while peering out during positional warfare. Especially since the turret hatches of tanks in the front lines were continuously watched by enemy sharpshooters. Even a short exposure could be fatal for the tank commander. I had commanded a folding artillery scope for just such cases. Actually, such a scope shouldn’t be missing in any fighting vehicle.”

 

[OzDigger]

I would prefer to buy tank models that come with a unique full crew rather than having to buy generic add-on crew figures.

 

[Saber]

I would prefer to buy tank models that come with a unique full crew rather than having to buy generic add-on crew figures.

Agreed. Generic sets would only be useful if their unifroms were correct to the vehicles units and period of the war.