Armour in North Africa (1 Viewer)

Rob

DD43 is the Infantry Patrol - which can go with a NA scene (but, boring...:rolleyes: ) and YES, you are right - I forgot the DD44 - which are the Four GI Tank Riders - but, three out of the four have the wrong helmut - just like the DD33 and 43.

Ron

Those tank riders look cool on my Hellcat!

Rob
 
Those tank riders look cool on my Hellcat!

Rob


I have a set too and they are great.

I missed out on the Hellcat - but, I am in the bushes on ebay await one to pop up (at the right price of course).
 
Louis - Did you read my post carefully?

Like I said there are only TWO sets which you have described that could be used in North Africa - DD33 and DD43 - the rest of the americans are either in WINTER gear or wading through water. Also to further my point bith of the sets that I just mentioned are now RETIRED !

So making a couple of early WWII American Soldiers sets - I would not be that unreasonible - IMO.

Ron

Ron,

You and John Gambale are perfectly free to suggest whatever you like to Andy. If he makes it, good for you. But quite frankly, with the quantity of releases out there, I just see no need to spend more money on basic G.I.'s that have already been done in spades, with only slightly different uniforms. And frankly, neither U.S. involvement in North Africa nor the Italian campaign appeal that much to me. We got our butts handed to us at the Kasserine Pass, also got kicked around pretty hard by Vichy French Algerian troops, and in Italy, got bogged down and beat up pretty good while under the inept command of Mark Clark. When Andy has exhausted all of the more interesting possibilities, he'll eventually get around to Tunesia and Italy, but I suspect none to soon.
 
So we all agree then. We need to break the Gustav line. Lets start a campaiagn for that with a facade of Monte Cassino to display all the new Falschirmjager sets. Perhaps we rename this thread?

damian,

Now that's what I'm talking about, LOL. Throw in Anzio and other campaigns that the British fought in and you have something real special.

Yes Louis, many of the same units had the same uniforms as in Normandy and subsequent battles. However, others didn't and especially British and American armor and vehicles found in Sicily and in the earlier campaigns in Italy.

These differences can be an excellent bridge of the two campaigns allowing collectors to mix and match. Is it commercially viable? Well, a year or two ago probably not, today I'd say yes.

Besides, I'm for more campaigns depicting USA/ British jointly fighting alone each other against the Germans. That's my opinion and I share this without malice for opposing opinions. Besides you know what they say about opinions; "that a $.05 won't buy you a cup of coffee".

Carlos
 
Ron,

You and John Gambale are perfectly free to suggest whatever you like to Andy. If he makes it, good for you. But quite frankly, with the quantity of releases out there, I just see no need to spend more money on basic G.I.'s that have already been done in spades, with only slightly different uniforms. And frankly, neither U.S. involvement in North Africa nor the Italian campaign appeal that much to me. We got our butts handed to us at the Kasserine Pass, also got kicked around pretty hard by Vichy French Algerian troops, and in Italy, got bogged down and beat up pretty good while under the inept command of Mark Clark. When Andy has exhausted all of the more interesting possibilities, he'll eventually get around to Tunesia and Italy, but I suspect none to soon.

Louis

I apprecaite your remarks and you are probally right - but, the US Market is a little bit bigger than you ;) I still believe more Americans would sell in a NA theme or in an Italian Range.

Also, I would think that a few US Veterans of the Italian Campaign and Anzio might take exception to your remarks "as bogged down" - I felt they fought very well under trying circumstances.

Regards, Ron
 
Ron,

You and John Gambale are perfectly free to suggest whatever you like to Andy. If he makes it, good for you. But quite frankly, with the quantity of releases out there, I just see no need to spend more money on basic G.I.'s that have already been done in spades, with only slightly different uniforms. And frankly, neither U.S. involvement in North Africa nor the Italian campaign appeal that much to me. We got our butts handed to us at the Kasserine Pass, also got kicked around pretty hard by Vichy French Algerian troops, and in Italy, got bogged down and beat up pretty good while under the inept command of Mark Clark. When Andy has exhausted all of the more interesting possibilities, he'll eventually get around to Tunesia and Italy, but I suspect none to soon.

Yep that Mark Clark certainly was inept.Or was it what they call 'vainglorious'?.Turned his army to Rome for the glory instead of trapping the German army and knocking a huge body of men out of the war.

Rob
 
No question Mark Clark was off the mark in running the Italian Campaign - but the men who fought were brave soldiers and deserve to be remebered.
 
Louis,

You’re right we did get our butts handed to us in the Kasserine Pass and we were bogged down in Italy. However, some how we (Allies) pushed the Germans out of North Africa by unifying their forces and taking advantage of the complete refusal of Hitler to re-supply the Afrika Korp due to “Operation Barbarossa”.

But we still beat them. Italy, in additions to much of what has already been said about the failings of this campaign; it also suffered from lack additional resources to advance this campaign further since it was only considered a secondary objective subordinate to the Normandy invasion.

You already know this very well, which is probably the reason why Normandy and the push towards Germany remain most collectible and commercially successful. This I agree with you Americans love winners.

The real question might be are these secondary campaigns (North Afrika, Sicily, Italy, and even Southern France) commercially viable for KC or other manufacturers to pursue? You suggest maybe yes for KC, only after Andy has exhausted all other planned releases (all eras, not just WWII) in the near future. Again, you’re probably right.

The irony is that other manufacturers may see an opportunity to exploit this interest in an area that Andy started (DAK & Eighth Army) and had good or modest profitability. Frankly, I consider Sicily/ Italy campaigns as an extension of the North African campaigns. I believe there is growing interest in these theaters of operations because of KC and I believe they will be far more profitable than the Pacific but less then Normandy but they will be success.

Time well tell.

Carlos
 
Great dialog folks, I hope no one is getting bent out of shape about this.

Carlos
 
Louis,

You’re right we did get our butts handed to us in the Kasserine Pass and we were bogged down in Italy. However, some how we (Allies) pushed the Germans out of North Africa by unifying their forces and taking advantage of the complete refusal of Hitler to re-supply the Afrika Korp due to “Operation Barbarossa”.

But we still beat them. Italy, in additions to much of what has already been said about the failings of this campaign; it also suffered from lack additional resources to advance this campaign further since it was only considered a secondary objective subordinate to the Normandy invasion.

You already know this very well, which is probably the reason why Normandy and the push towards Germany remain most collectible and commercially successful. This I agree with you Americans love winners.

The real question might be are these secondary campaigns (North Afrika, Sicily, Italy, and even Southern France) commercially viable for KC or other manufacturers to pursue? You suggest maybe yes for KC, only after Andy has exhausted all other planned releases (all eras, not just WWII) in the near future. Again, you’re probably right.

The irony is that other manufacturers may see an opportunity to exploit this interest in an area that Andy started (DAK & Eighth Army) and had good or modest profitability. Frankly, I consider Sicily/ Italy campaigns as an extension of the North African campaigns. I believe there is growing interest in these theaters of operations because of KC and I believe they will be far more profitable than the Pacific but less then Normandy but they will be success.

Time well tell.

Carlos


Here Here - Carlos

GO GET HIM - I agree 100%

I believe any new range in the European Theater will do very well - look at Fields of Battle. Which by the way - you can use with an Italian Campaign Range as well. All early 1940's.
 
I think you make some good points there.It certainly was a joint effort throwing the Germans out of NA.With the Brits from one direction and the US from the other.Also it is logical that the Italy/Sicily is seen as an extension of the NA campaign.And as you say even if the the US/Brits were bogged down(as they were)they still won!.

Rob
 
Louis

I apprecaite your remarks and you are probally right - but, the US Market is a little bit bigger than you ;) I still believe more Americans would sell in a NA theme or in an Italian Range.

Also, I would think that a few US Veterans of the Italian Campaign and Anzio might take exception to your remarks "as bogged down" - I felt they fought very well under trying circumstances.

Regards, Ron

Ron,
How about this? A range of soldiers from the Big Red 1, First Infantry Division? They were in NA, Sicily, Normandy and the Bulge. One of the most recognizeable and popular units of the war. It may solve the Americans in North Africa question. But even if it didn't, bring on the 1 anyway. :D

As for bogged down, I don't think that is a criticism of individual fighting ability. The trying circumstances and leadership brought on the bogging. :)

Justin
 
Ron,
How about this? A range of soldiers from the Big Red 1, First Infantry Division? They were in NA, Sicily, Normandy and the Bulge. One of the most recognizeable and popular units of the war. It may solve the Americans in North Africa question. But even if it didn't, bring on the 1 anyway. :D

As for bogged down, I don't think that is a criticism of individual fighting ability. The trying circumstances and leadership brought on the bogging. :)

Justin


Justin

You are right - HOW ABOUT SOME BIG RED ONE !!

Great history with the Big Red One - they should have some figures of their own.

Got to make our fearless leader believe a little more in the American Market - I am affraid.

Ron
 
There are two separate debates here. One is about which campaigns are most neglected and which ones had the most impact on the outcome of the war. That is for historians and learned treatises. Not that we aren't a knowledgeable buch on this forum. The real debate is about what ranges and figures sell. We all know the stats about the Eastern Front One in every 3 dead was a Russian but still it doesnt sell. Iwo Jima should in theory sell well there are classic movies (The Sands of Iwo Jima, South Pacific) and modern movies (Flags of our Fathers) plus it is an American icon (Raising The Flag) etc, but ift doesn't sell. Maybe it is the uniforms. Lillte Bih Horn was in reality a minor skirmish in the long frontier wars but it is perennially popular. These trends are long term. WWII has always seen a predominance of German stuff and D-Day and Bulge stuff. Britains Deetail and Tamiya kits as well as Airfix plastics follwoed these rules. Andy has rewritten the rule book with FOB but I am not sure whether the volume of sales here are anything like with D Day and Bulge. I was under the impression that this range had smaller production numbers to test the market prior to jumping in. Figarti tried to change the rule book with their War in China range but I think this has not proved successful. Similarly teh Korean War just doesn't do it for collectors. The most favourite lines remain Napoleonics, WWII (certain theatres) ACW and then ceremonial. Teh Crusaders is a new range and that seems to have struck a cord. These are the things the marketing and sales guys have to discuss when K and C decide on a new range. Not whether Mark Ckark should have finished teh Germans or puched on to Rome
 
No question Mark Clark was off the mark in running the Italian Campaign - but the men who fought were brave soldiers and deserve to be remebered.

Yep that certainly is true.

Rob
 
Justin

You are right - HOW ABOUT SOME BIG RED ONE !!

Great history with the Big Red One - they should have some figures of their own.

Got to make our fearless leader believe a little more in the American Market - I am affraid.

Ron

Ron,
I think Andy believes in the American market quite a bit. A quick counts show an almost 2 to 1 advantage of American sets over British sets. Americans dominate D-Day and the Bulge. As much as I'd love to see figures for Operation Torch/Tunisia, the Desert War seems to be more closely associated with the Brits. Maybe the FOB range will tackle Kasserine Pass someday. (Or Wake Island, hint, hint! ;) ) But we gotta have the 1 somewhere down the line... I hope...

Justin
 
Of course there is a 2 to 1 advantage - THATS WHAT SELLS ! - My point completely. :D
 

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