Arnhem P figures. Will you get them? (1 Viewer)

[arnhem44mad]

This is a poll thread to ask if people will buy these figures. This thread however is open to debate from everyone. Spirited debate is the crux of a forum as we all know that when we meet up at a show, be it in London, Chicago, Texas, Australia, New Zeland, Scotland (yeah right^&grin) we will all buy each other's pints and drink to the hobby!

I look forward to seeing the results!

Scott

 

[arnhem44mad]

Re: Arnhem P figures. Willy ou get them?

I have voted to await Andy's response to the questions.

Everyone knows I am an avid Arnhem and Market Garden collector, but I feel taken advantage of with these new releases as last year I made a huge thing about feeling let down when Andy announced the discontinuation of the MG range, but then with all the feedback from collectors, posting of arnhem dioramas and such, he said he got with his board group or whatever his top brass are and designed 20 new models. Now if that was the case in the space of that few days between announcing that, seeing the feedback from collectors and posting on the forum that they had 20 new ideas. It suggests to me that Andy then may have said 'Lets raise prices'. Now if that's the case then I feel extremely betrayed as a collector.

Also with Andy's knowledge of how popular MG was he knows how many people liked arnhem and that we all wanted more releases, so again this suggests to me that the collectors of MG are being used again as he knows what we want, and so raises prices on what we want when releasing them!

How can someone with such loyal customers do that? I was all for pre-ordering them as soon as they came out but I feel really let down by what's happened and if this is the case with single figures, I can only hope to god that no vehicles are released!

Scott

 

[jazzeum]

I voted Not Sure because I want to see them in person. However, based on what I have seen I will probably buy one, maybe two. Another of the factors influencing my decision is space. I probably only have room for one or two. I hope they are available for the Valley Forge show in May so I can examine them at George Guerriero's table.

 

[Mitch]

Scott..

While I am not a conspiracy theorist there are many many people who are thinking along these lines. I know exactly the disappointment you feel and have heard it from people so, you are not alone. I have heard and, its all from the same people and area that the Arnhem jacket is tricky, its camo so its got to be harder and, well, they are more detailed than the last lot but, I disagree. They are not tricky (or, the first series and releases would have been more expensive) its camo so its harder (German camo is not more costly in terms of price) more detailed than the last lot (we would expect some improvement its been 5 years and more since their re-introduction)

completely agree that this series and it was crystal clear to K&C should have not been tampered with in this way. Keep the uniforms similar to blend and do the faces with the new format that has been present across the ranges in recent years.
Mitch

 

[sammy719]

Scott..

While I am not a conspiracy theorist there are many many people who are thinking along these lines. I know exactly the disappointment you feel and have heard it from people so, you are not alone. I have heard and, its all from the same people and area that the Arnhem jacket is tricky, its camo so its got to be harder and, well, they are more detailed than the last lot but, I disagree. They are not tricky (or, the first series and releases would have been more expensive) its camo so its harder (German camo is not more costly in terms of price) more detailed than the last lot (we would expect some improvement its been 5 years and more since their re-introduction)

completely agree that this series and it was crystal clear to K&C should have not been tampered with in this way. Keep the uniforms similar to blend and do the faces with the new format that has been present across the ranges in recent years.
Mitch

I have to agree with Mitch on this one, K&C has it's core value of collectors who have made choices to collect the brand of K&C because of it's style, design, paintings, and the monthly releases and of course it's price point, I have no dog in this hunt I'm just a average collector reading the forum but I see how many K&C WWII collectors are upset about the P series, I do think more then not the average K&C Arnhem collector will pick up the new P series, maybe not as fast as they would like due to the pricing, but now if Andy decides to make the P series work across the board with all ranges and this is the new and improved K&C, then I take back my statement, hang in there K&C collectors, maybe the P series and the "P" doesn't stand for permanent and next months dispathches are back to the regular prices...Sammy

 

[desk11desk12]

To be fair. I decided to stop collecting all paratroopers 2 years ago.

However, I was planning to start collecting the REAL WEST but probably won't because of the price of the Indians recently announced.

I'll give them a good look at the Texas Show but they'll have to really wow me to be motivated.

I collect all manufacturers and yet I used to spend between $3-6,000 annually on KC (including 2012). Maybe that qualified me as a core KC collector..

Again, I'm not really angry about it but the market has simply left me behind. I don't recall buying any KC yet this year.

Carlos

 

[arnhem44mad]

I mean this in no disrespect to Denmark, but why bring out a series like that which will reach maybe a few ceremonial collectors. Surely for every range added prices have to fluctuate so that the cost of those designs can be paid for, why bring out a range which is quite directed towards a certain niche of collectors when the other lines which are extremely popular are being neglected. Then bring out new figures for their popular ranges at high prices.

It's like when you watch come dine with me and the person on the first night is all lovely and friendly then because their night is over they show their true colours. For yeara King and Country was the collectors friend, ggradually raising prices at a fair right. 4 figures for £75 went to 3 for £75, then to £3 for £95, then to one for £40, then £55. How is that justifiable?

Andy we aren't looking for a fight but please see where we are coming from and explain things. Please don't use the usual excuses about material cost etc because when you look at Thomm Gunn and Figarti then that argument is a bit of heresay.

Scott

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I would think many will make their decisions once the figures are actually released and available to view, while others are simply hung up based upon price ???

 

[desk11desk12]

I would think many will make their decisions once the figures are actually released and available to view, while others are simply hung up based upon price ???

You're probably right PanzerAce1944.

However, say they're even better than FL and even AeroArt. I'm still priced out. I hope I'm alone by choice. Am I? Maybe time will tell.

They say every man has his price. Well, I've just met mine.

Carlos

 

[IONA]

You're probably right PanzerAce1944.

However, say they're even better than FL and even AeroArt. I'm still priced out. I hope I'm alone by choice. Am I? Maybe time will tell.

They say every man has his price. Well, I've just met mine.

Carlos

No your not mate
Scott

 

[4737 Carlin]

I'll buy a couple of the figures for sure - they do look very well done after all. I'd like to be able to collect this range comprehensively but the cost is beyond my means. Let's face it, you could pretty much say that about any range from any manufacturer for most of us with a limited budget - I have a shelf full of individual figures I like from many eras and theatres of conflict. Having said that, I hope this does not become the norm across all K&C ranges - I reckon the sculpts and painting are pretty good already without the premium price.

 

[Desertkiwi]

Scott..

While I am not a conspiracy theorist there are many many people who are thinking along these lines. I know exactly the disappointment you feel and have heard it from people so, you are not alone. I have heard and, its all from the same people and area that the Arnhem jacket is tricky, its camo so its got to be harder and, well, they are more detailed than the last lot but, I disagree. They are not tricky (or, the first series and releases would have been more expensive) its camo so its harder (German camo is not more costly in terms of price) more detailed than the last lot (we would expect some improvement its been 5 years and more since their re-introduction)

completely agree that this series and it was crystal clear to K&C should have not been tampered with in this way. Keep the uniforms similar to blend and do the faces with the new format that has been present across the ranges in recent years.
Mitch

Mitch I have a question regarding your post, that I think warrants some clarification, particularly when you state you're not a 'conspiracy theorist'.......could you please explain what you mean when you say, quote....'I have heard and, its all from the same people and area.....' ?

Regards

 

[Mitch]

crystal clear if you have been reading all of these threads and responses
Mitch

Mitch I have a question regarding your post, that I think warrants some clarification, particularly when you state you're not a 'conspiracy theorist'.......could you please explain what you mean when you say, quote....'I have heard and, its all from the same people and area.....' ?

Regards

 

[Desertkiwi]

crystal clear if you have been reading all of these threads and responses
Mitch

I have read many of the posts, hence my request for clarification.......as it's not crystal clear to me, as you say.

Can I presume then in absence of a sensible response, that your comments were directed at the Australian collectors or am I way off the mark?

 

[Jack]

I've never really understood what a 'loyal collector' actually is. A company produces a product we want at a price we are prepared to pay so we purchase it. If the product does not suit our tastes or budget we spend our money elsewhere. I think people are entitled to discuss products and prices but to suggest a company 'owes' its to past customers to make decisions based on anything other than practical business interests is a bit of a stretch. A product has been produced and the company has put a price on it. Some will buy. Some will not. If the product is too dear the company will get the message via their sales figures. Deep down though, aren't many of us worried that far from being a failure, these figures will sell ...perhaps to other people, but sell nevertheless?

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I've never really understood what a 'loyal collector' actually is. A company produces a product we want at a price we are prepared to pay so we purchase it. If the product does not suit our tastes or budget we spend our money elsewhere. I think people are entitled to discuss products and prices but to suggest a company 'owes' its to past customers to make decisions based on anything other than practical business interests is a bit of a stretch. A product has been produced and the company has put a price on it. Some will buy. Some will not. If the product is too dear the company will get the message via their sales figures. Deep down though, aren't many of us worried that far from being a failure, these figures will sell ...perhaps to other people, but sell nevertheless?

I think you got it Jack. Even the poll suggests (P) will sell

Terry

 

[Mitch]

I find it interesting that you find it hard to understand what a loyal collectors is. I think the briefest of perusals through these pages (the entire history of the forum) shows what that means albeit in many differing forms and levels of intensity. I think this manifests itself in these discussions as there is seemingly more to the buyer seller relationship and that's where these emotional issues outburst and statements derive.

In response to your last comment I have no deep worries about these becoming a success or that someone will have them or I may not. Do you suggest that everyone who either will not pay or can not wants them to fail?
Mitch

I've never really understood what a 'loyal collector' actually is. A company produces a product we want at a price we are prepared to pay so we purchase it. If the product does not suit our tastes or budget we spend our money elsewhere. I think people are entitled to discuss products and prices but to suggest a company 'owes' its to past customers to make decisions based on anything other than practical business interests is a bit of a stretch. A product has been produced and the company has put a price on it. Some will buy. Some will not. If the product is too dear the company will get the message via their sales figures. Deep down though, aren't many of us worried that far from being a failure, these figures will sell ...perhaps to other people, but sell nevertheless?

 

[Simpson & his donkey.]

I voted yes as I think they look far better then the last lot of MG figures. This means that it will only be one or two I like as this is how I have been collecting for awhile now. I only pick out the odd figures I like amongst the more expensive makers and add these to my collection. I haven't bought any K&C for at least 10 months now and I find these new figures a fresh look that appeal to me. Be very selective on what you buy and choose carefully. Sometimes less is better. Chris.

 

[Jack]

I find it interesting that you find it hard to understand what a loyal collectors is. I think the briefest of perusals through these pages (the entire history of the forum) shows what that means albeit in many differing forms and levels of intensity. I think this manifests itself in these discussions as there is seemingly more to the buyer seller relationship and that's where these emotional issues outburst and statements derive.

In response to your last comment I have no deep worries about these becoming a success or that someone will have them or I may not. Do you suggest that everyone who either will not pay or can not wants them to fail?
Mitch

I find it interesting that you find it interesting{sm4}

My confusion with the loyalty issue is not that I question the existence of the emotional attachment to these issues. It is whether such an attachment - which surely is no different to that which exists between any buyer and seller - can demand of a manufacturer that he or she price a product based on something as tenuous as the notion of 'loyalty' based on a financial relationship. A Brit or Australian soldier in the Middle East is not going to be braver tomorrow if he or she has a 20 percent pay rise. Patriotism, like any form of loyalty, is an emotional attachment.

A good deal of the discussion about pricing blurs the lines between finances and loyalty, making for a somewhat confused mix of wages in China on one side, painting time in the middle and loyalty to past customers on the other. It is quite a mix. I do feel - and I am conscious here that I do not feel particularly passionate about the discussion so I have no wish to offend those who do - that when I say something is too dear, that is an assessment that has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of manufacturing that product, but in fact has everything to do with my financial situation. In a perfect world I would buy every WW 1 aircrat from K & C and JJ but I choose not to. That has nothing to do with the products being good value or being over or under priced. It has, howover, a lot to do with the amount of my excess cash and where I choose to spend it.

As for whether people want it to fail, I cannot really say. I move in a rather small TS group (very small compared to some I suspect) and only one is collecting Arnhem at the moment so my view is pure speculation (particularly as I have not spoken to him yet about the new range - Wayne are you buying?). If I had to make a guess - and a guess will all it will be - if I had a gun to my head and had to express an opinion, I would so no, they do not want it to fail. Some, many, most, all - who am I to know - are probably a bit frustrated that the range will look magnificent and will probably sell. That is pure speculation so it may well be wrong. I have been wrong before - once or twice!{sm4}{sm4}

 

[desk11desk12]

I've never really understood what a 'loyal collector' actually is. A company produces a product we want at a price we are prepared to pay so we purchase it. If the product does not suit our tastes or budget we spend our money elsewhere. I think people are entitled to discuss products and prices but to suggest a company 'owes' its to past customers to make decisions based on anything other than practical business interests is a bit of a stretch. A product has been produced and the company has put a price on it. Some will buy. Some will not. If the product is too dear the company will get the message via their sales figures. Deep down though, aren't many of us worried that far from being a failure, these figures will sell ...perhaps to other people, but sell nevertheless?

Jack

Loyalty doesn't trump a companies survivabilty or long term financial health. Its okay if the market accommodates the price increases with new collectors into the market despite the exodus of old KC collectors. The market is blind and should remain. I'll find another hobby or collect another manufacturer's product. That's the wonderful thing about a free market. Don't change it. If Andy guesses right on this bet, then KC should be rewarded.

If the new pricing works, and new collectors enter the market, then look for the KC secondary market ignite and maybe even old KC retail stock move faster. If anyone can pull this off, the market leader can. Especially since they're the manufacturer moving beyond traditional marketing channels and into where new younger collectors are; "Social Media Marketing".

Carlos