August Dispatches - Eighth Army and Saracens (2 Viewers)

[Rob]

I have to echo what others have said today.These are some of the best figures i've seen,quality looks superb.Its so good to see everyone welcoming these new releases, i think it bodes really well for the Arnhem stuff don't you think?

Rob

 

[Harrytheheid]

Hmmm...dunno. He doesn't necessarily have to be displayed as a Crusading Richard the Lion Heart. Could be used to depict Prince Edward at the Battle of Lewes (think thats how you spell it).
Agreed though, if he's marketed as Richard the Lion Heart on Crusade, it might have been better to have him in the more familiar white surcoat and red cross. But how would we then know he's supposed to be Richard the Lion Heart?

 

[Harrytheheid]

The new Richard the Lionheart figure does look great, but this is definitely after the Crusades.
http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3855&page=2

My brother collects this line and AeroArt International medieval figures.

MK26GMLS
Thanks for pointing me in the direction of this thread. Very interesting indeed.

 

[mk26gmls]

Hmmm...dunno. He doesn't necessarily have to be displayed as a Crusading Richard the Lion Heart. Could be used to depict Prince Edward at the Battle of Lewes (think thats how you spell it).
Agreed though, if he's marketed as Richard the Lion Heart on Crusade, it might have been better to have him in the more familiar white surcoat and red cross. But how would we then know he's supposed to be Richard the Lion Heart?

I am not even sure where the image of Richard I with the white surcoat with the red French crusader cross originated from. The only known description I am aware of that deals with Richard's appearance is the one I listed earlier on the other thread. I have a picture in my hallway of Richard fighting the Saracens where he is mounted on a horse with a white surcoat with red cross with the three lion passant on his shield. I love the picture, but it is definitely historically inaccurate.

 

[Warrior]

I think the reaction to the SAS sets by other manufacturers will be something to the effect of D'OH!!!!!!!!

 

[Rob]

I think the reaction to the SAS sets by other manufacturers will be something to the effect of D'OH!!!!!!!!

Or a short one word expletive!!

 

[Capitolron]

You know this King Richard figure brings up an interesting subject of having certain figures which are known - but in a different uniform than the historic correct version - so other who do not have the in dept knowledge of history can reccoginize and enjoy.

Certainly - many of us want the most acurate uniform and figure to match the paricular point in time in which they fought. But, You know - its alright (I think) to have historical figures people can recoginize to help tell the story of your display.

Anyway just a thought?

Ron

 

[richardschulze1944]

Fabulous, fabulous fabulous new releases - fortunately for me, nothing for the two lines I collect. I thought the crusader series was fabulous right from the word go, but I just couldn't justify to myself branching out and collecting that as well as the German stuff - but like Chris, it almost pains me to see the new ones and imagine how good they would look in my cabinet -

The new AK stug is absolutely stunning. I think it was Rob who mentioned how much stuff he had on his wish list leading up to Christmas - I have a 'dare I dream it' list - I have a new baby, my first, due to arrive about November - I wouldn't change that for the world but it's sure going to put my soldier buying on the back burner for a while. I will count myself blessed indeed if I can manage to stay in touch with the retired items for my chosen ranges - looks like I'll be starting with the Wolf in Sheep's Clothing set -

 

[Capitolron]

Great the dispatches are out so we can begin another fight. Let me start
Does anyone think that the saracen who has chopped off the crusaders head is going too far? And for Ron where are the American LRDG figures?

Damian

I want to say so all my British Friends can see as well - These SAS guys are great and I plan on buying them all !!

Great addition to the AK & EA Range - I cant wait to see them up close to look at the size and scale. I think they will go great attacking Rommels Boys !

What a wonderful release we have had today.

Of course - A Rat Patrol American LTDG would be nice too.....

 

[Rob]

I know what you mean mate,i have a 'If i win the lottery list'!.Hey but your very lucky to have a new baby,and when he/she grows up they can buy you Toy soldiers!

Rob

 

[Louis Badolato]

I have a new baby, my first, due to arrive about November - I wouldn't change that for the world but it's sure going to put my soldier buying on the back burner for a while. I will count myself blessed indeed if I can manage to stay in touch with the retired items for my chosen ranges - looks like I'll be starting with the Wolf in Sheep's Clothing set -

Congratulations! My first (my son Alec) is 20 months old, and my daughter is due towards the end of October. It does change your life (in the most wonderful ways) but you will still be able to find a little time and money for collecting.

 

[damian]

Ron
Great to hear you. I thought you had been a bit quiet so I was just checking
Regards
Damian

 

[damian]

Ok Ok
The SAS stuff is great, but where is the Desert Sherman and Priest and new Lee, desert ambulance, desert spitfire and crew etc etc.

Just kidding
Regards
Damian

 

[Capitolron]

Ron
Great to hear you. I thought you had been a bit quiet so I was just checking
Regards
Damian

Just got back from the Woodshed !

 

[binder001]

Hey, these are NICE figures! Real pieces of art. If I wasn't so deep into GI stuff (I buy models and many books as well as "toy" figures) I would love to set up a K&C North Africa display - I have always found that an interesting theater of war (instead I have a batch of Airfix troops awaiting attetion). The British special units offer a "different" kind of soldier figure than the usual infantry and armor types.

By the way - Andy has EXCELLENT timing. The Osprey company has just released "Desert Raiders, Axis and Allied Special Forces, 1940-43" (OS6123) in their Battle Orders series. A quick overview, but a nice quick reference to the figures that are headed your way.

The Saracens and Crsaders could be a very interesting series, too. There are advantages to being poor - it keeps me focused!

Very good figures Andy.

Gary

 

[Combat]

You know this King Richard figure brings up an interesting subject of having certain figures which are known - but in a different uniform than the historic correct version - so other who do not have the in dept knowledge of history can reccoginize and enjoy.

Certainly - many of us want the most acurate uniform and figure to match the paricular point in time in which they fought. But, You know - its alright (I think) to have historical figures people can recoginize to help tell the story of your display.

Anyway just a thought?

Ron

I would not display the Richard figure in a crusades display - but to each his own. It would be nice to have some clarification from Andy on whether these are intentional decisions for the reasons you indicated or oversights. What exactly is the KC policy? Collectors should at least be made aware of the errors (in a polite manner) and then can decide for themselves if it impacts their decision.

 

[OldCelt]

Or a short one word expletive!!

DANG!! I'm stunned!! There goes my lunch budget for another six months. Oh well,I'm getting used to P/B and J samitches. I really don't need new clothes either with resurgence of the 70's stlye.
The new re-con trucks, jeep and stug are starting me foaming again.
I agree with most that it looks like some of the best yet.
As for the hysteria on the historial accuracy of Richard Andy always seems to push the envelope towards the dramatic as the hystoric?? And that does not bother me in the least. (except when it comes to tartan patterns)
O.C.

 

[mk26gmls]

I would not display the Richard figure in a crusades display - but to each his own. It would be nice to have some clarification from Andy on whether these are intentional decisions for the reasons you indicated or oversights. What exactly is the KC policy? Collectors should at least be made aware of the errors (in a polite manner) and then can decide for themselves if it impacts their decision.

Just forget the goofy looking guy in Richard's heraldry, but this is more in keeping with his heraldry during the time of the Crusades according to an eye witness.

According to a chronicler describing Richard in Cyprus in 1191:
"The king leapt on to his horse, and seated himself on a saddle sparkling with gold, glittering red and with many other colours gleaming between. On the rear of the saddle a pair of snarling little golden lions faced each other, each holding one forepaw stretched out towards the other as if to tear each other to pieces. The king also wore golden spurs on his feet. He wore a tunic of rose samite with a cloak over it; the cloak had the shapes of little half moons lined out on it, glowing white in solid silver, and shining orbs like suns scattered densely."
Source : Itenerarium Peregrinorum et Gesta Regis Ricardi - book 2, chapter 36, translated from Latin into English by Helen J. Nicholson.

 

[Combat]

Just forget the goofy looking guy in Richard's heraldry, but this is more in keeping with his heraldry during the time of the Crusades according to an eye witness.

You ask a lot to ignore that guy. He looks a bit like Capt Ron after a long night at Camelot's (that's a DC joke). Thanks for all the info. It's nice to discuss the historical side of the hobby now and again.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

You know this King Richard figure brings up an interesting subject of having certain figures which are known - but in a different uniform than the historic correct version - so other who do not have the in dept knowledge of history can reccoginize and enjoy.

Certainly - many of us want the most acurate uniform and figure to match the paricular point in time in which they fought. But, You know - its alright (I think) to have historical figures people can recoginize to help tell the story of your display.

Ron

I think Ron makes an excellent point - there should be something about the figure that makes it recognizable as Richard to the average person otherwise it’s just another knight. I’m a stickler about historical accuracy of vehicles and common troops (especially in WWII, where so much evidence exists in photographs and war surplus), but some artistic license should be allowed when depicting famous personalities, especially when it’s somewhat guesswork what they really looked like. Though I wonder if someone saw K&C's version in a cabinet without a name tag would they instantly know it was supposed to be Richard on campaign in the Holy Land, or just some knight with a funky helmet?

Historically accurate or not, I myself think the helmet looks very cool - the whole figure looks extremely similar to the one made by Frontline/Altaya a few years ago (though much higher quality of course): http://www.michtoy.com/MTSCnewSite/newmetal_folder/Frontline/Medieval/mmk23.html I wonder what source they both used for this depiction of Richard (hopefully not each other )!

Now my own big question about heraldry concerns the cross on the charging MK-049 knight. It’s the same sort of stylized Jerusalem cross with the long pointed end already seen on MK-010. There’s no question MK-049 is supposed to represent Templar heavy cavalry given that the black and white colours on the horse barding is the same as depicted in the recent Osprey book on the Templars, but I’ve never seen this sort of cross associated with Templars before, or anyone else for that matter (it almost looks like a Knights of Santiago cross??). Mk26gmls, can you or anyone who knows a lot about Crusader crosses let me know if you’ve seen this pointy-cross design in any of your references?

Personally I really wish K&C had stuck with a traditional Templar cross (like on MK-002, 003 and 009) for the charging knight. It would probably be more historically accurate AND it would make it look more recognizable as a famous Templar (at least to me anyway). But I hope I’m proven wrong by one of the Crusader experts here.