Bring Back Gold Edition Vehicles (1 Viewer)

Louis Badolato

Louis Badolato

Lieutenant General
Joined
Apr 25, 2005
Messages
17,202
Sadly, as of September 1st, Honour Bound stopped producing Gold Edition Vehicles, the wonderful custom vehicles that were the best pure polystone vehicles produced to date. HB had previously ceased production of its also exceptional regular production vehicles.

In my opinion the armored vehicles were what made Honour Bound special. While the figures were very nice, like Figarti, the vehicles, from the 1st Barkmann's Panther, were what set HB apart. For whatever reason, HB has been unable to turn a profit selling these fantistic vehicles to date.

We have got to get collectors together on this forum, and in person at the OTSN Show in Chicago later this month, and find a way to get these back in production. Losing the Gold Edition vehicles would be as big a loss to the hobby as losing K&C Warbirds or Figarti Shock and Awe pieces. All three are unique works of art that make collecting fun and interesting. There's got to be a way for Honour Bound to make a profit on these amazing vehicles. Let's talk to Ana and the Honour Bound team in Chicago, and find out if there is a way for us to make this work.
 
I think the problem was that they were just to expensive for most collectors and of course the additional freight charge(s) didn't help.

I could be wrong but I understand that the Argentine government had issues with large consignments being exported and this made the freight costs even higher.

Personally I found the different levels of extra detail, paint work, figures etc on the Gold Edition range rather confusing and this with freight issues and the all up high cost put me off buying any.

I hope VERY MUCH that HB return to model vehicle production but I was never a fan of the Gold Edition concept and would have preferred HB stuck with the original standard issue paint schemes and level of detail at a more reasonable price. I may be in the minority on that viewpoint but I'm used to that ;) :D
 
No argument here.

I already had late model Panther Ausf. G and Tiger IIs selected. I would have ordered 2 Panthers and 3 Tiger IIs. Don't even get me started on early Tiger Is. So many possibilities....and then there is the Sherman Firefly, IS2 and T34s.:(

From what I understand HB never got near the break even point in number of orders. Take the Sturmtiger. I'm not sure if anyone else on this forum ordered one.

In some ways I was surprised that the Sturmtiger was the second release considering how obscure it was (only 18 prodcued). I appreciate the benefits of reusing the late Tiger hull but I think sure sellers like the Tiger I (early), Tiger II, Panther Ausf. G, Sherman Firefly, Stug III/IV would have sold better in the early going.
 
fmethorst said:
No argument here.

I already had late model Panther Ausf. G and Tiger IIs selected. I would have ordered 2 Panthers and 3 Tiger IIs. Don't even get me started on early Tiger Is. So many possibilities....and then there is the Sherman Firefly, IS2 and T34s.:(

From what I understand HB never got near the break even point in number of orders. Take the Sturmtiger. I'm not sure if anyone else on this forum ordered one.

In some ways I was surprised that the Sturmtiger was the second release considering how obscure it was (only 18 prodcued). I appreciate the benefits of reusing the late Tiger hull but I think sure sellers like the Tiger I (early), Tiger II, Panther Ausf. G, Sherman Firefly, Stug III/IV would have sold better in the early going.
Click to expand...

But that is my point Frank. With all due respect to you and Louis I reckon it's a big ask to request HB continue a product line that wasn't profitable.

Wouldn't it be better to think up some alternative ideas?
 
Oz,

I certainly wouldn't expect them to continue a line that was not profitable. I'm trying to find a way to make it profitable, and bring it back.

Its seems a lot of the problem is the cost of shipping. Are any Treefroggers in that industry? Perhaps there is a more cost effective solution.

Another problem is the cost of making models, like the Sturmtiger and the Wading Sherman, which were not popular enough to sell many multiples (apparently 1 Sturmtiger and 2-3 Wading Shermans). My proposed solution would be to take pre-orders with deposits for a particular vehicle, perhaps a Firefly Sherman for example. Once enough orders for that vehicle came in to make production profitable, then that vehicle could be produced. If there is not enough interest, the deposits could be refunded and a different vehicle proposed.

If the Gold Vehicles can't be made profitably, I would love to see regular HB production resume of cool and unusual vehicles, similar to the Bergepanther and the horsedrawn fieldkitchen. An allied tank recovery vehicle or a variant of the M3 Halftrack done in HB's level of quality would be fantastic.
 
I don't think it's just the cost of shipping but the state of the Argentine economy which, in the best of times, is very skittish. Costs are very, very high and prone to massive bouts of inflation.
 
I think the cost of shipping was a real killer, as well as the pricey add-ons. I think if you got a few figures and much cheaper freight, they would have sold many more even at $350.00. Not that I'm putting the K&C classic sherman in its class, but the average collector is going to splurge for a very good looking $149.00 tank that includes free shipping, two crew members and stowage. It is simple economics, for most who love this hobby.
 
i am all for HB returning to production of its AFV's if they can make a profit AND if i can afford to purchase them. this will not happen for me with the Gold Editions. they are too far out of my price range. i would JUMP on a HB Tiger in a regular issue $200 range. for that matter i would buy almost any HB AFV in the regular editions. i own 2 Panthers and a Jagdpanther which are the nicest vehicles i have. i hope HB can work it out. -- lancer
 
Interesting that there was so much complaining about the HB price and after it didn't work we are clamoring for them to come back. I would love to see them stay in the game, but now is probably not the best time for high end products. Hopefully they keep an open mind or come up with something like one or two releases per year - maybe contingent on receiving a certain number of pre-orders.
 
What was the best seller for HB when they were in full production? I would guess the Jagdpanther, followed by the Sherman and the Bergepanther. Perhaps if they could produce vehicles in that price range, and offer a customization option at a premium for collectors who would prefer a more unique product.

But that still leaves the vagueries of the Argentine economy and the high price of shipping. In a perfect world, like K&C, they could design the products, and have them produced in a country like China. The problem is that, unlike K&C, located in Hong Kong, Honour Bound would be far from such a country, making quality control difficult if not impossible.
 
Like everything in life, there's good and bad in the Gold Edition approach. On the good side, one could get a beautiful model that is customized to personal taste. On the bad side the custom approach raised prices and the shipping from Argentina was a killer.

I really like the idea as I enjoy customizing and appreciate the unique approach that it provides. I understand that it can be confusing for some collectors because to order customizing one must have a handle on the choices and know which ones are appropriate for which campaign or unit. I had given a photo CD to HB to support the Sherman projects.

Personally I really wanted the foliage covered M4A1 from the late Normandy campaign and I got really excited about the M4A1 with wading stacks, but the >$500 USD costs did put me off, so I passed.

With the small market for customs, would the market be more appropriate for HB or somebody to produce batches of basic vehicles or components and then have customizers do the final touches for those who want the extras? For instance, if I had a bunch of 1:30 Sherman chassis and various other components I could assemble customized tanks. There are others on the TF Board who can do this also. Does this defeat the "collectible" cachet?

Gary
 
Gary,

Perhaps this time, rather than being my nemisis, you can work with me to solve the problem . . . I like your components idea, but have a different idea of how to use it.

As you are aware, Ana, Gabriel and the HB team attend various shows throughout the year. I bet it would be a lot cheaper to take preorders, ship the components of the vehicles and the unassembled packaging to the site of the show, and have the team finish them on site, putting on a display for the collectors attending the show as they attach tracks, hatches, guns, detail pieces, accesories, turrets, and apply decals and final paint details. This would reduce the shipping costs substantially, eliminate complaints about vehicles arriving damaged (as any damaged components could be repaired or replaced with spares at the show) and be a great advertisement for more pre-orders (collectors watching the skillful HB team assemble and finish these vehicles, and who could ask questions and discuss what they wanted, would be more likely to order a Sherman than people merely seeing photographs on a forum or website).
 
Louis, that sounds like a good idea, but is it worth the trouble for HB to do this for what probably will be a small amount of orders? I think their $200 Sherman series was a bonafide success. Sold out quickly! Why can't they continue along those lines! They can then charge for a few options. A $350.00 dollar base tank with nothing else, I believe was a turnoff to most collectors, who felt at that price should at least get a tank commander. I balked at the gold editions, because it would have cost in the neighborhood of $550.00 to get the tank with the options and postage. If I have to make a choice, that money will go into my kids education fund. This is why I and most others have set limits on what we will pay for a model; tank. I fear, that if prices continue to spiral upward, there is a very good chance that this hobby will sink itself, as there will be fewer and fewer willing to shell out.
 
Steel Wheels,

I would love to see the regular production vehicles come back, as I am sure Honour Bound could also offer customization to collectors who wanted to pay extra for it.

For whatever reason, HB didn't think they could turn a profit with regular production vehicles. Maybe they didn't have a big enough collector base.

I think for either custom or retail vehicles, the real problems are (1) the rising cost of production in Argentina (and everywhere else) and (2) the incredibly high shipping costs from Argentina.

I don't know the first thing about (1) red tape in Argentina, (2) production costs or (3) the shipping business, so I am hoping that somebody who has some relevant knowledge can jump in and help out.
 
Louis,

i am heartened that you are trying to persuade Ana to restructure and revive their excellent HB armours.

If the atrocious shipping prices (i have to pay $US145 for shipping) can be solved, you got my genuine support.

sincerely,

nasir kasmani
 
"As you are aware, Ana, Gabriel and the HB team attend various shows throughout the year. I bet it would be a lot cheaper to take preorders, ship the components of the vehicles and the unassembled packaging to the site of the show, and have the team finish them on site, putting on a display for the collectors attending the show as they attach tracks, hatches, guns, detail pieces, accesories, turrets, and apply decals and final paint details. This would reduce the shipping costs substantially, eliminate complaints about vehicles arriving damaged (as any damaged components could be repaired or replaced with spares at the show) and be a great advertisement for more pre-orders (collectors watching the skillful HB team assemble and finish these vehicles, and who could ask questions and discuss what they wanted, would be more likely to order a Sherman than people merely seeing photographs on a forum or website)."

Louis, I admire your passion regarding the Honour Bound tanks, but this idea does not work on any level to be honest.

As far as I know, the Honour Bound team attends OTSN and maybe one of the London Shows, not sure about any others.

What you are suggesting is they ship the tanks unassembled and assemble them in either their hotel room at Chicago or at their tables during show. How do you propose they get the various glues, tools, paint, etc through customs, glue and paint are hazardous materials and tools are not exactly safe to ship either. And as they are building the tanks, you want them to field questions, offer tips, etc. You need to focus 1000% when you are building a tank; fielding questions would be dicey at best. And the time involved would be off the charts; it takes hours, not minutes, to assemble one of these beauties, you just can't slap them together in five minutes.

And if pieces arrive damaged, how are they to repair or replace them? Would you pay 500.00 for a tank that had broken tracks and needed to be repaired?

Also, the glue and paint needs time to dry and the odors are not very pleasant either, I am sure the new owners of the hotel would not go for what you are suggesting on any level, they are busting stones over signs in the hallway and flyers on the doors, how do you think they will feel about doing basically manufacturing in a hotel room?

The bottom line is the tanks are truly spectacular, but the obstacles in selling and producing them are just too great to continue.
 
I think the issues boil down to this:
1) Argentina
2) Argentina
3) Argentina

There are some countries set up to manufacture. There are some that are not.

The trade route from China to the US is very busy, which means competition in shipping (and better rates). There are so few options from Buenos Aires that it costs way too much. They aren't on the caravan route!

The lack of manufacturing in AR means that the proper raw materials aren't always available in abundance. Even simple things like boxes get hard to come by (some of their boxes are hand made!). Packing peanuts don't exist (they pay someone to cut styrofoam to pack in).

If someone in China (or another country with good manufacturing) wanted to take a risk and help out HB, there could be some hope for these vehicles. A modeller in the US might even be able to make a go of it (if they want to do something on the side). Other than that, the Argentine economy will do HB vehicles in. I wonder what will happen to the molds?

Fortunately, figure sets are still possible (since they don't need as much for materials and shipping is relatively less due to the smaller size).
 
George,

You may be right that it wouldn't work, I am just trying to brain storm and see if there is any way to save HB's vehicle production.

Just for the record, I was thinking of Chicago and the Westcoaster/Symposium as the shows where the tanks could be assembled.

Most of the real work would be done in the studio back in Argentina, but rather than putting the entire tank and base together in situ (making for the bulky package that Ana explained costs so much to ship) the assembly I was talking about was gluing the tracks/wheel sections to the main chasis of the tank, attaching the gun to the turret and the hatches to the turret and chasis, assembling the box and putting it in. Any painting would be minor touch up, and could be done with paints purchased in the United States (so long as they used the same company's paint in Argentina so the colors matched). They could send extras of the fragile sections, so if one breaks in transit it could be replaced with a totally new part.

Also, as packing materials like pre-fabricated boxes and styrofoam peanuts are readily available in the U.S., the expense and difficulty of having someone hand cut styrofoam and hand assemble boxes could be avoided.

In Chicago, they would have their suite of rooms, could arrive as early as they needed, and could keep the rooms closed during any delicate work if necessary.

If they wanted to leave the Westcoaster right after the show, myself and the other sponsors of the NY Symposium would ensure them a quiet Monday through Thursday in a suitable space to do the majority of their work allowing them to put on a small assembly show for collectors sometime during the weekend.

I think it could work if it was thought through by Ana's team, and would eliminate the majority of the shipping expenses. The problem, as Pete pointed out, would remain "Argentina, Argentina, Argentina". The expense of production in that country is not a problem I know how to solve. However, if the Donzino's can succeed in running Beau Geste as well as the figure production side of Honour Bound, they might be able to solve the "Argentina Problem".

Just my 2 cents.
 
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