Britains Hollowcast Set 101. Household Cav. Bandsman (2 Viewers)

[Sandhurst39]

JB. Looking good! I’ll get cracking shortly on the trumpeters for you as an add on.

 

[johnnybach]

JB. Looking good! I’ll get cracking shortly on the trumpeters for you as an add on.

Thanks Andrew - glad you think that I'm doing them justice.

And to explain the "add-on" a bit. I asked whether Andrew might cast me another rank of State Trumpeters (four) - to add on at the rear of the band.

These guys - but on the same mount as the band - which of course, Britains didn't make for this band - and it wasn't until 1953 - with the Coronation imminent - that they produced a mounted State Trumpeter, although on a different mount.

 

[Mike Niederman]

Here's a link to a Youtube channel with many videos of the Household Cavalry, and other mounted ceremonial troops: https://www.youtube.com/user/SchmidtLondon/videos

This one shows the Band in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vAjqdVKW-E

 

[johnnybach]

Here's a link to a Youtube channel with many videos of the Household Cavalry, and other mounted ceremonial troops: https://www.youtube.com/user/SchmidtLondon/videos

This one shows the Band in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vAjqdVKW-E

Cheers Mike - That's a wonderful clip of the modern-day Band, with the four State Trumpeters at the head of the Band in State Dress, for the first part of it - and also being led by the Director of music in Review Order.

My band is going to be a fair bit earlier than that one though - as I'm making it up as a Victorian Band - and basically following the lead of the early Britains figures - which were first produced in 1899 - so a couple of hundred years before that video Was shot.

It is not known exactly when the Household cavalry changed over to (mostly) black horses - but, there was a tradition of using pale Grey horses for trumpeters - who also played other instruments - which is why some of the older Britains sets - use both Black and (pale) Grey horses. The drum horses also differ signifcantly from the much sturdier beasts used today - and in early Victorian times were very much the same as the rest of the Band - which is why Britains again used the same casting for the Drum horse as the rest of the band. The Musical Director was also not represented by Britains until 1953 - presumably for the Queen's Coronation.

So...........that leaves me following the lead of the old Britains Set 101, with the difference that I will be adding in some State Trumpeters ( which Britains didn't do for this band until 1953) - mounted on Pale Greys - though painting my Drum horse as a Piebald - just as Britains did. I also have an option of using some of my current Life Guard troopers as "travellers" - two of which flanked the drum Horse with drawn swords in some early pictures.

There is such a gorgeous picture of the band, like this, on the jacket of G.R Lawn's "Music in State Clothing" (1995), which is a mine of information about the Band, and I'm also using that as a guide. You can see a couple of Euphonium players in the front rank on Grey Horses - and some trombonists also on Greys.

Here's a couple of pics - which gives a general idea of what I'm after. ( I regret that I don't know the Artist - or I would give details).

 

[theBaron]

...It is not known exactly when the Household cavalry changed over to (mostly) black horses - but, there was a tradition of using pale Grey horses for trumpeters...

Haven't they been mounted on black horses since George I's time? Morier's paintings depicted them as black, though colored illustrations that I've seen from the Cloathing Book seems to ignore any convention for the horses' colors.

It would have been in keeping with the thinking of the time, that generally speaking, the darker the color of the horse, the stronger and more robust it was. Again, I draw a comparison to the Prussian army, and to the other German states. The very blackest horses were given to the heavy cavalry-cuirassiers, basically, whether they wore the plate or not. The next darkest shades to dragoons. At the same time, some armies did use horses of other colors, such as greys, for trumpeters, so they could be spotted quickly when an officer needed to signal. And they were used for musicians in parading.

Holsteins were prized for their strength and endurance; it was apparently a slightly smaller horse than today's breed of the same name. Hannover maintained some of the very best stud farms in Germany.

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Brad - I was referring to something that i read from the book by Wendy Skilton "British Military Band Uniforms - The Household Division". Wendy is a Director, of Music in Miniature - a Military figurine Company - specialising in bands of the British Armed Forces.

In the Chapter headed "The Household Cavalry", ( page 7), she states........... " For both Regiments, all musicians and the director of Music are mounted on black horses*. It is not certain when this practice first began, however, a contemporary print of 1837 does show the 1st Troop of the life guards mounted on black horses at the Coronation of King Charles II. It is known that the 2nd Troop of the Life guards were mounted on black horses in 1692, but there is no evidence to suggest that this was common to all Troops at that time. By the end of the Napoleonic Wars, the Trumpeters were all mounted on grey horses, a common practice throughout all the cavalry regiments."

( * I presume she means nowadays).

So....... given that George I was crowned in 1701 - and Charles II was crowned in 1630 - she seems to suggest that for some Troops of Life Guards, black horses were even earlier than George I. However, the key words to me are ' it is not certain when this practice first began' and ' there is no evidence to suggest that this was common to all Troops at that time'.

Ergo, MY Band is going to follow the Britains colour scheme for Set 101 - first produced by them in 1899. They used both pale grey horses - and black horses for this band. I'll also be adding on four State Trumpeters, ( which Britains didn't do at that time), made to match the Band by riding similar horses - who from Napoleonic times - to this day ride greys ( frequently called "white horses" - in error). Here's another pic attached - which shows an early set 101 - from " The Collector's Guide to Toy Soldiers" by Peter Rose (page 37).

Note that today's Band - all have the tack in black - but again, I'm paying homage to the old Britain's set - by painting mine in red-brown too. I have also seen this Set on Auction sites, riding all greys - and including a bombardon player.

Mine will be bigger than most - by having 21 Bandsmen ( including two Bombardons ) plus Four State Trumpeters on Greys as a rear rank attachment, making 25 figures in all. jb

 

[johnnybach]

Here's an update on progress with the band. I hope you can see that I have tackled the Bombardon (Helical Coil Bass Horn), which twists around the body of the player. It's always a little bit of a fiddly instrument to get right - so in his case, I removed the head - and re-drilled out the arm holes, before assembling. I painted the top of the body - and the arms and instrument first, before assembly - then pinned the arms to the body and touched up the joint. My second bombardon and arms casting is in front of the group - having been cleaned up a bit - before being painted - OFF the figure before being attached.

I also painted my first black horse - in this case, I decided the cymbalist was to be him. Much quicker to paint black horses.{sm4}

I've also included my previous two completed figures - and in the background show how I always have a few more being developed - usually from the head of the rider down. Hope you can see that a cornet player (rear left) is also nearing completion. jb

 

[DMNamiot]

Looks great! I imagine that instrument is fun to wear while mounting your horse.

Dave

 

[johnnybach]

Looks great! I imagine that instrument is fun to wear while mounting your horse.

Dave

I've seen pictures of them using a mounting block with steps - here's one - where the nag seems a bit shy to co-operate?

I'm guessing our bombardon player gets aboard using the steps - and then - somehow - they pass the instrument to him - to wriggle into?{sm2}

Yes - would be fun to see a video of the "behind the scenes" preparation - before they perform.

 

[thebritfarmer]

These are looking amazing JB. I knew you wouldn't disappoint :salute:::salute::

 

[johnnybach]

These are looking amazing JB. I knew you wouldn't disappoint :salute:::salute::

Thanks Scott - glad you like 'em. I've added a couple more to the completed list - and now they are just beginning to look like a Band. I've cheated a bit here - by adding in my "original" Britains restored piece - which I intend to keep separate from my Band. But I do like things to be symmetrical!

The two new instruments are Cornet and Clarinet.

 

[DMNamiot]

Johnny I always enjoy seeing the work you do! Can’t wait to see all of them on display!

Dave

 

[johnnybach]

Johnny I always enjoy seeing the work you do! Can’t wait to see all of them on display!

Dave

Thanks Dave - second Bombardon and second Trombone are well on their way - and I've been fitting some more arms to figures today - as I need to know the arms/instruments will fit to bodies before I paint them. It's sometimes necessary to "give a few tweaks" to them - before they can fit and look natural. Once that's sorted - I can then paint the tunic fronts and arms - OFF the figure. Much easier to do it that way.

But.........thanks to good casting from Andrew - all going well. jb

 

[DMNamiot]

I plan to order some from Andrew for my Durbar display need some more mounted musicians I have the lancers band WB did a while back and I also have a Marlborough mounted band but I know from my reading/research there were a few bands there so just need to figure out which one to go with first and then order the castings.

Dave

 

[johnnybach]

I plan to order some from Andrew for my Durbar display need some more mounted musicians I have the lancers band WB did a while back and I also have a Marlborough mounted band but I know from my reading/research there were a few bands there so just need to figure out which one to go with first and then order the castings.

Dave

Good idea Dave. Painted mounted figures can be a tad expensive, these days, if you can find them - and bands need to be larger accumulations of figures to look good. I have a few mounted bands of twelve or so, but that's about the minimum I would like to have.

So painting some up from castings, always seems like a good idea both financially, and just for the sheer fun of doing it too. When doing a big band, it can sometimes seem like something of a slog - but the sense of achievement at the end - is a very nice feeling indeed.

I know the WB Lancers band - which is a very nice one - but not so familiar with Marlborough. What Regiment is your Marlborough Band Dave?

P.S. There's a painted limited edition Marlborough Household Cavalry 12 piece band in State Dress, going on e-bay right now - for what seems a reasonable price. It's in Michigan too. Link below. jb

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marlboroug...&sd=232459786363&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Johnny

The Marlborough set is only 8 pieces it’s a mounted pipe band with 6 pipers a drummer and the band duffarder. They are from the the 17th Bengal Lancers set numbers D19,20 and 21 from the Durbar line. The band is nice but like you mentioned small and needs to have a couple of other bands with it to really add to a large display.
The 1903 Durbar had over 35000 troops so they need some music to get them through the parade! I have a couple of marching bands that are around twelve figures so I think a couple of mounted bands would really help and since we won’t be moving anymore I can set up a work space that I don’t need to worry about moving and get back to painting figures. I have some already on the bench that need to be finished.

Dave

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Johnny

The Marlborough set is only 8 pieces it’s a mounted pipe band with 6 pipers a drummer and the band duffarder. They are from the the 17th Bengal Lancers set numbers D19,20 and 21 from the Durbar line. The band is nice but like you mentioned small and needs to have a couple of other bands with it to really add to a large display.
The 1903 Durbar had over 35000 troops so they need some music to get them through the parade! I have a couple of marching bands that are around twelve figures so I think a couple of mounted bands would really help and since we won’t be moving anymore I can set up a work space that I don’t need to worry about moving and get back to painting figures. I have some already on the bench that need to be finished.

Dave

Ah! yes - I remember seeing that set - on cream coloured horses. I remember discussing those with "Trooper", when he was making me up a set of The 1st Canadian Mounted Rifles - who also played Pipes and Drums on horseback. I'm very fond of that set - for all sorts of reasons.

That's a very nice set you have, Dave - and most suitable for your Durbar theme.

Andrew has loads of Indian Troops in his armoury, so he's sure to have something you will want.

Good that you seem to have settled after moving around the Globe. I too, find it great to have my own "Soldier Room" once again. jb

 

[johnnybach]

Something like this one from Wm. Hocker might be a suitable candidate Dave??? Band of the 11th Bengal Lancers - might look pretty good alongside your mounted pipers.

 

[DMNamiot]

One of the units I am considering from the Cavalry Division present at Delhi is the 19th Bengal Lancers but there were a lot of units present at Delhi that are ignored for some reason like the 1st and 2nd Punjab Cavalry who were part of the 3rd Brigade of the Cavalry Division. I would also like to see the Guides better represented as well as other native regiments like Gwalior or Bhopal Lancers etc. it would be great if I had the ability to do the 15 Hussars which while not an Indian Unit it would be great to have them on display as well. I guess this sort of dreaming will just get me into trouble so one set at a time.

Dave

 

[johnnybach]

One of the units I am considering from the Cavalry Division present at Delhi is the 19th Bengal Lancers but there were a lot of units present at Delhi that are ignored for some reason like the 1st and 2nd Punjab Cavalry who were part of the 3rd Brigade of the Cavalry Division. I would also like to see the Guides better represented as well as other native regiments like Gwalior or Bhopal Lancers etc. it would be great if I had the ability to do the 15 Hussars which while not an Indian Unit it would be great to have them on display as well. I guess this sort of dreaming will just get me into trouble so one set at a time.

Dave

Dream on Dave - That's surely what Toy Soldiers are meant for

The stuff of dreams. :salute:: jb