Castings I have painted (1 Viewer)

[trooper]

The story of the white bearskin being presented by the Russian Tsar is a myth. Photographs and other illustrations showing the white bearskin being worn and dated prior to the Tsar's appointment as Colonel in Chief prove this. On which occasions it is worn seems to have been at the whim of the bandmaster as photos show the kettledrummer wearing both at different times. The aquisition of a new animal in 1904 began the tradition of a black drum horse which has continued to the present day.
Another point of interest for you, Johnny, on one occasion, the Meerut Horse Show in 1926, the regiment fielded a mounted pipe band! Trooper

 

[thebritfarmer]

Thanks for the information guys. I was commenting using my knowledge of the Britains Scots sets that were made and both had black horses. It's nice to see that there were other options and goes to show how much research needs to be done and how easy it can be to get it wrong. Hats off to the TS manufacturers I say!!

 

[johnnybach]

Well - once again my flabber- has never been so -gasted! I seem to have known about that story about the Tsar for years. I'd better hurry up and get that book delivered - and maybe dispel some more myths! At least it COULD have been worn at that time! (Phew!). In this case though, it's just a coat of paint which might have needed changing - I won't though- I like it!

As to the mounted pipe-band. Now you wouldn't happen to have a picture floating around , would you please? Any idea of how many pipers were involved - and what they wore? Presumably NOT kilts!!! Were they on Greys too? I have a book by P.D Griffin "Encyclopdia of modern British Army Regiments" (2006), which gives some details of Greys pipers wearing kilt & plaid of Royal Stuart tartan from 1946 - when pipers from disbanded regiments were taken into the Greys. Presumably they wore something different prior to this? Incidentally, this book also repeats the above white bearskin myth - though adds "is thought to have originated" - so maybe he too is sceptical.

That sounds like a very interesting project to try to make up! Bet you Martin will say that you can't steer the nag whilst playing them though. I certainly would NOT fancy doing it. Maybe they didn't either - if they only tried it out once! Somewhere in the back of my head - a little bird is telling me that I have seen a picture of an Indian Regimental Piper on horseback - but for the life of me - I can't remember where?

Very, very interesting. Thanks for a bit more knowledge trooper. johnnybach

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Scott. Yes, you do need to watch out for manufacturers like (Old) Britains. They, like many others, don't always give a date for their products - so you can be lulled into false assumptions like that. Nothing wrong with NOT giving a date - but I always prefer to - for that very reason - and this does involve some research - if its only "asking trooper"!! (A good place to start - I'm finding out!).

Old Britains also (for example) put a cymbalist on a horse for their early Scots Greys mounted band (set 1721) - something I think is never done, as it could frighten the horses. Martin may confirm this - as he should know - if he's not still doing Tarzan impressions up a ladder! Hope the roof is okay!

Incidentally - Asset are okay with supplying sets in bits and pieces. I bought my HC set that you have seen - one or two pieces at a time - as I don't like "production line" painting - it makes me rush - and I don't like that. They are really nice, helpful people at Asset. - and one manufacturer I would have no hesitation in recommending. johnnybach :salute::

 

[trooper]

The Indian cavalry regiment with a mounted pipe band was the 17th Cavalry, eight mounted pipers and a kettledrummer all mounted on greys. Have never seen a photograph of the Greys at the Meerut Horse Show 1926. Would assume they were wearing Indian hot weather kit with solar topees, very doubtful any other items of Highland dress would have been worn. Trooper

 

[trooper]

Just checked further, Johnny, and to answer another of your questions the Indian 17th Cavalry pipers steered their horses with foot reins, the normal reins appear to be attached to their waistbelts, so presumably the brakes were applied by leaning backwards. Trooper

 

[johnnybach]

Fascinating pieces of information there trooper. That must have been a sight (and perhaps sound) for sore eyes - and ears! Wouldn't that make an absolutely unique little piece of history. I think I will hold on to those pieces of info - and see whether any photo or drawing ever appears. I would love to have a go at a 54mm version of that one day. Many thanks - once again. johnnybach.

 

[trooper]

Digressing somewhat but on the subject of regimental myths, many years ago I recall reading in a book of my father's an account of the First World War called "With the Black Watch in France and Flanders" where it was stated that in 1914 at St Quentain some highlanders charged with the cavalry as they had done at Waterloo. In later years I saw this story again in one of the books by Money Barnes, and when I got into the model soldier scene it was a story that was quite well known. I even found an artist's illustration in a history of the war by Caton Woodville which showed the Greys at full charge with wild eyed highlanders hanging on to the stirrup leathers. There was even a bronze statuette in the Imperial War Museum. I decided this would make a nice group with the 1815 version on one sideand the WW1 version on the other. Me being me wanted full details of what regiment, where it occured, the result etc. so started delving. With no result. I went through every cavalry and highland regimental history and nothing. Every lead ended in a blank. Talking to Ray Westlake, a noted authority on WW1, he admitted that he could find no authority either. Our conclusion was that during the Retreat from Mons the Waterloo story had been resurrected in order to boost civilian morale, a story on a par with the Angel of Mons. The stirring picture of gallant and dashing young men taking the bayonet to the foe would have distracted the reader from the news of retreat. Just an example of how myth can be repeated often enough to bring belief. Trooper

 

[johnnybach]

An interesting story - reminds me a bit of how a small battle won, against a foe armed with edged weapons - against breech loading rifles - managed to gain almost legendary status - perhaps to diminish somewhat, the calamitous news of the previous day!

Isandlwana - Rorke's Drift

Makes you think? jb

 

[Martin Tabony]

I've got a picture of the 17th Cavalry pipers. They have their head between the first and second drone, so they don't fall off the shoulder. Curb reins to the stirrups, bridoon reins to the belt.

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Martin - any chance of a peek? johnnybach:smile2:

 

[Martin Tabony]

I'll try and find it, I'm not as organised as trooper. I only keep on hand the reference for what I'm working at the time.

Martin

 

[trooper]

17th Cavalry pipe band. Trooper

 

[johnnybach]

Whoa there Bettsy - they do look a bit strange. Can't quite see them with a backdrop of Edinburgh Castle somehow!

A very unusual item - for sure. I will have to put my thinking cap on and see if I can work this one out. Many thanks to both of you for a fascinating glimpse of one of the oddest looking piper pictures I've ever seen - for sure.

Now if you can top this one with a colour picture Martin........................

Thanks again trooper. I simply don't know how you do it!:salute:: johnnybach

 

[johnnybach]

Got it!

I knew I had seen them somewhere.

The Duhrbar Series - Marlborough Models
17th bengal Lancers.

No. D20 Three Mounted Pipers.

I think that the image is a bit small to reproduce - but that's what to look for. It looks like they didn't get them quite correct - as all three drones are over the left shoulder - so as Martin pointed out, they would probably slip off. looks like they are dressed in a blue tunic, with pale colour turban. I don't think they do castings though - will need to check. Probably a conversion necessary - to get it right.

Very interesting subject this - must have a go sometime...................johnnybach

Have a peek - see below

http://marlboroughtoysoldiers.com/durbarindex.html

 

[Martin Tabony]

17th Cavalry pipe band. Trooper

See, I told you he was more organised!

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Martin - yes I agree - I think that in the Military Archive department - trooper has few equals. His breadth of knowledge continues to astonish me. I have been floundering around for the ten years or so that I have been interested. The best thing that I ever did - was join this forum. Thanks to both of you - and the others who have made me welcome.

Back to the question of these mounted pipers though. I have just had a closer look at the Marlborough range - and noticed that the set above these (D19) is of a Band Duffadar (Indian NCO equivalent to a Sergeant - or should that be Corporal of Horse Martin?) and a kettledrummer. So, it would be perfectly possible to reproduce trooper's photo in TS terms. Not QUITE right - but easily corrected, I should think.
johnnybach

 

[trooper]

Hang about, Johnny, there's more to come. Have a look at this photo and read the text below, most important. Note that 12 members are missing and read the instruments they would be playing. Trooper

 

[johnnybach]

Post-lady has just been and delivered my newest addition to my growing library of Uniform reference material.

Many thanks Martin for tipping me off about this one. A quick flip through the pages has confirmed what you told me - it is an absolute cracker!

"Vanished Armies" [I regret to say with my interest in glossies - this is destined to be always known by me as Varnished Armies!] - published in 2009 by Shire.

Contains Watercolour sketches and notes (fleshed out more fully by the editor John Mollo) by the Scottish and Army Officer A.E. Haswell Millar, and drawn in various European Countries from 1907 - 1914.

In hardback - an absolute beauty - and I got it for only £9.99 via Amazon. I just did a quick check - and the cheapest is now £10.85 - so it's going up. If you are a painter like me - get in quickly - I promise that you won't be disappointed. johnnybach.

 

[johnnybach]

Holy Mackrel trooper - I've just got a new book - you have just found another amazing subject - and the sun is shining for the third day on the trott!

Is it my birthday? - No

Have I gone to heaven? (doubtful - agreed) so- No!

Have I been a good boy? - That's what it must be - I'm a good boy, I am!

Must go back and read more - THAT'S a project if ever I saw one - that is!

Now what to do - read my book - investigate the photo - paint the shield on my Knight in armour (more later on these!).

Nah! - cup of tea next, I think! This is turning out to be a lovely day. Cheers chum. johnnybach