Collector's Showcase: see and believe (1 Viewer)

[Stryker II]

Rob: better check up on your pacific history--strictly in terms of naval ships used, there were more at Okinawa and Iwo was in comparison to Normandy. We won't even mention the attack force off of Kyushu--the world had never seen so many ships of all types and stretched for as far as anyone could see............Stryker P.S. There were several British ships at Okinawa and were used in alot of ways................

 

[Rob]

Stryker,i'm guessing more ships involved but less men?.Would that be right?.I had heard of the British ships involved,the British involvement in the Pacific is little known really.(its also little known that Brit Sailors ferried the US Troops to Omaha beach,many being killed,wounded or having to stay on the beach when their LCA's were sunk).

Rob

 

[Stryker II]

Rob: I will go back and check some of my many sources on file, but as I remember you are absolutely right. I think the exact number was 23 at Oki, and they were used as screens and perhaps some bombardment. I'm not really sure how many were at Japan itself, but I'm sure that anything that floated was there, because we didn't know for sure if they actually were going to surrender or not.

When the first troops landed there--US MARINES of Course-- they were prepared for anything including massed banzai charges from the civilian population. One of the reat sources to check all this out is from Robert Leckie who is featured in the new series The Pacific, and his absolutely fabulous book STRONG MEN ARMED.............Stryker

 

[Stryker II]

Warrior: I guess you must have the same problem comprehending my question to you, so I will ask it again, and it has nothing to do with toy soldiers................HOW MANY SOUVINERS DO YOU HAVE?.......Stryker

 

[jazzeum]

I've asked you guys to take it down a notch. If this keeps up, you will leave me no choice but to close the thread.

 

[Stryker II]

Brad: my point has been made to Warrior and I'm done on that. Am trying to find some info for Rob on british ships at Oki. I think Leadman mentioned tht he was at Okinawa and included some pictures of his "visit" there....................Stryker

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Rob: better check up on your pacific history--strictly in terms of naval ships used, there were more at Okinawa and Iwo was in comparison to Normandy. We won't even mention the attack force off of Kyushu--the world had never seen so many ships of all types and stretched for as far as anyone could see............Stryker P.S. There were several British ships at Okinawa and were used in alot of ways................

It is difficult to compare Normandy numbers with Pacific battles because Normandy has the figures for the initial landings but I do not know them for Okinawa. The Normandy naval strength includes landing ships which are large and landing craft which are numerous as a single category. The Naval strength at Okinawa probably includes landing ships but not landing craft.

Without nit-picking the numbers, both Normandy and Okinawa were major operations but the initial landings at Normandy were larger and there were more ships.

The Normandy landings (D-Day) consisted of 175,000 men including airborne vs. 70,000 at Iwo Jima (including 30,000 on D-Day from the 3rd, 4th and 5th Marine Divisions and 40,000 subsequent troops) vs. 208,000 10th Army (including 102,000 Army, 88,000 Marine Corps, and 18,000 Navy personnel - but only a part of this force (I don't know how many) were in the initial D-Day landings).

The Normandy fleet consisted of 2831 ships including 1,231 warships, 864 merchant ships, 736 ancilliary craft plus 4,126 transport ships (landing ships and landing craft) for a total of 6939 vessels. I don't know the naval strength at Iwo Jima. The naval strength at Okinawa consisted of 1650 ships including 40 aircraft carriers, 18 battleships, 32 cruisers and 200 destroyers, plus 50 commonwealth warships, the rest being transport, troop and fuel ships. Landing craft were not counted.

The point is the Normandy landings (D-Day) were the largest.

Terry

 

[Stryker II]

Terry: can you give me your sources for your info on your stastics? ou can inclde your pacific ones if you want, but wouldlike to know where an what was the source for the one D-DAY in europe compared to the other D-Days in the pacific.................Stryker

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry: can you give me your sources for your info on your stastics? ou can inclde your pacific ones if you want, but wouldlike to know where an what was the source for the one D-DAY in europe compared to the other D-Days in the pacific.................Stryker

There are several Normandy D-Day sources, but Wikipedia has a good summary. The numbers for Iwo and Okinawa are harder to find and also come from several places including Wiki and excerpts from several books parts of which are quoted on the internet. I didn't write them down but they are all on the first page or two of a google search so are prominent. The only number I am not sure of is how many of the 208,000 in the 10th army went ashore on the first day. I couldn't find that number as I was only doing a quick and dirty review. I know some of the army personnel were still aboard ship several days later - when the Marines headed south and were slowed down at the fortified ridges at the entrance to the south part of the island, they asked the army to do a landing at the extreme south end of the island so the Japanese would be attacked from 2 directions, but the army refused.

Terry

 

[Stryker II]

Thanks Terry, I will do some checking on my sources including the Marine Corps library and get back with you on that. I am interested in knowing too. If we count all countrys, then perhaps Europe was bigger until Okinawa and Japan itself, but I think in US terms only---the invasion forces were bigger. I'm positive they were at the end................Stryker

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Thanks Terry, I will do some checking on my sources including the Marine Corps library and get back with you on that. I am interested in knowing too. If we count all countrys, then perhaps Europe was bigger until Okinawa and Japan itself, but I think in US terms only---the invasion forces were bigger. I'm positive they were at the end................Stryker

Careful. I count all countries. The Normandy group includes my Canada taking one of the 5 beaches. with one of the 5 allied divisions (3rd Canadian Infantry Division, 2nd Canadian Armoured Brigade) The Brits and US had about 2/5 each and the Canadians 1/5.

FYI the US First Army contingent totalled 73,000 men, including 15,500 from the 82nd and 101st airborne divisions

Terry

 

[Stryker II]

Rob: I will go back and check some of my many sources on file, but as I remember you are absolutely right. I think the exact number was 23 at Oki, and they were used as screens and perhaps some bombardment. I'm not really sure how many were at Japan itself, but I'm sure that anything that floated was there, because we didn't know for sure if they actually were going to surrender or not.

When the first troops landed there--US MARINES of Course-- they were prepared for anything including massed banzai charges from the civilian population. One of the reat sources to check all this out is from Robert Leckie who is featured in the new series The Pacific, and his absolutely fabulous book STRONG MEN ARMED.............Stryker

Rob: I checked three fast sources, and the british navy was assigned as task force 57 in the pacific. They had 50 warships available including several aircraft carriers, and my one souce tells me that 23 of them were in the Okinawa fighting. I will look up in a book I have for te actual invasion of Japan and see if any of your ground units were scheduled to land or maybe ships for bombardment duty. They may have not ben scheduled for the initial landings, but Japan has many islands, and 'm sure they ould have been somewhere along with our other allies, Aussies, New Zealand, Canada etc..............Stryker

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Rob: I checked three fast sources, and the british navy was assigned as task force 57 in the pacific. They had 50 warships available including several aircraft carriers, and my one souce tells me that 23 of them were in the Okinawa fighting. I will look up in a book I have for te actual invasion of Japan and see if any of your ground units were scheduled to land or maybe ships for bombardment duty. They may have not ben scheduled for the initial landings, but Japan has many islands, and 'm sure they ould have been somewhere along with our other allies, Aussies, New Zealand, Canada etc..............Stryker

The Brits had something like 17 carriers at Okinawa and they had armoured decks making Kamakazi attacks much less effective.

Terry

 

[Rob]

Rob: I checked three fast sources, and the british navy was assigned as task force 57 in the pacific. They had 50 warships available including several aircraft carriers, and my one souce tells me that 23 of them were in the Okinawa fighting. I will look up in a book I have for te actual invasion of Japan and see if any of your ground units were scheduled to land or maybe ships for bombardment duty. They may have not ben scheduled for the initial landings, but Japan has many islands, and 'm sure they ould have been somewhere along with our other allies, Aussies, New Zealand, Canada etc..............Stryker

Thank you Stryker thats very interesting,I didn't know we had so many ships off Okinawa,good to know the Royal Navy were there throwing shells at the Japenese during the landings.Of course the Americans took the brunt of it out there but at least their allies were there doing their bit.Thanks again

Rob

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Thank you Stryker thats very interesting,I didn't know we had so many ships off Okinawa,good to know the Royal Navy were there throwing shells at the Japenese during the landings.Of course the Americans took the brunt of it out there but at least their allies were there doing their bit.Thanks again

Rob

British Pacific Fleet Task Force 57 of 50 ships including 17 aircraft carriers and 450 aircraft, about 25% of Allied naval air power. All of the TF57 aircraft carriers were British, but the fleet had Canadian, New Zealand and Australian warships. The fleet mission was to neutralize Japanese airfields in the Sakishima Islands and provide air cover against Japanese kamikaze attacks. I don't think they shelled Okinawa.

Terry

 

[Stryker II]

You guys should have been there, you had many POW'S imprisoned, like us, and it was your right to help get them freed!!!!

I have to dig out a book on the invasion of Japan itself and see exactly what British and other commonwealth troops were staged to be used. Pleased to help out british friends. We have a long relationship with the British Marines a proud and efficient force in thier own right. I might add they are powerful drinkers too--smile!!!!!.............Stryker

P.S. tried to trade for a union jack once!

 

[lancer]

British Pacific Fleet Task Force 57 of 50 ships including 17 aircraft carriers and 450 aircraft, about 25% of Allied naval air power. All of the TF57 aircraft carriers were British, but the fleet had Canadian, New Zealand and Australian warships. The fleet mission was to neutralize Japanese airfields in the Sakishima Islands and provide air cover against Japanese kamikaze attacks. I don't think they shelled Okinawa.

Terry

Judging by the number of aircraft and number of carriers, most of these CV's had to be CE's. How many of the British carriers were fleet size as oppossed to escort size and where did the British get this many carriers? I knew the British had a good size fleet but I had no idea they had this many carriers and aircraft. -- lancer

 

[Rob]

You guys should have been there, you had many POW'S imprisoned, like us, and it was your right to help get them freed!!!!

I have to dig out a book on the invasion of Japan itself and see exactly what British and other commonwealth troops were staged to be used. Pleased to help out british friends. We have a long relationship with the British Marines a proud and efficient force in thier own right. I might add they are powerful drinkers too--smile!!!!!.............Stryker

P.S. tried to trade for a union jack once!

Yes indeed Stryker.Apart from being Allies in arms we also both had servicemen treated in a digusting inhuman manner by some real scum in WW2,god bless every man who played his part in the defeat of the Japenese military.

And yes the Brit Marines/Royal Navy have liked a drink throughout their History

Rob

 

[Stryker II]

Judging by the number of aircraft and number of carriers, most of these CV's had to be CE's. How many of the British carriers were fleet size as oppossed to escort size and where did the British get this many carriers? I knew the British had a good size fleet but I had no idea they had this many carriers and aircraft. -- lancer

Lancer: I was surprised at that fact too, had no idea they had that many carriers! I'm not sure of thier size though compared to ours, but they seemed to accomplish thier mission. I would hope the didn't have those old WWI bi-planes they used to attack the Bismark with!! I think we suplied them with Corsairs but am not sure on that statement!...........Stryker

 

[Stryker II]

Yes indeed Stryker.Apart from being Allies in arms we also both had servicemen treated in a digusting inhuman manner by some real scum in WW2,god bless every man who played his part in the defeat of the Japenese military.

And yes the Brit Marines/Royal Navy have liked a drink throughout their History

Rob

I agree 10% brother.................Stryker