Comparison of WWII Weapons (3 Viewers)

[Spitfrnd]

...I'd prefer to be in a P-47 than any other fighter. It's true it wasn't as nimble as some but it could take plenty of hits and it possibly saved more airman's a$$es than any other fighter, apart from the Mossie of course ...

Yes that is why I rated it the best choice for the less capable pilots. It was probably the most loved by its pilots as well, likely for that reason.

...
Fighter - Long range air-to-air = US P51D/K "Mustang"
Advanced interceptor = German ME 262 "Schwalbe"
Ground attack = P47 "Thunderbolt"
Carrier fighter = F6F-5 "Hellcat"/F4U-4 "Corsair"
Bomber - Long Range Heavy = B29 "Superfortress"
Medium = B25 "Mitchell"
Light intruder/recon = Mosquito

...
Depending on how you define long range, the P-51 is a very good choice. With the development of slipper tanks, the Mk IX and M XIV would be the best choice for intermediate range air to air but nothing could match the P-51's reach.
The Me 262 was a deadly bomber interceptor, if escorted by FW190s or Me109Gs. It was of course the introduction to the future but out classed against any of the late war allied fighters in every category but all out speed. It was also notoriously unreliable and more likely to kill its pilots with engine failures that allied fire.
The P-47 was an excellent ground to air fighter that could also take care of itself if needed. The Typhoon would have to be considered a close competitor and early war, despite its poor vulnerability to enemy fighters, the Stuka was hard to the beat in ground support role. Also deserving note in this role was the Ilyushin 2/10 Sturmovik "flying tank".

After their introduction, the Cousair and Hellcat were the premier carrier fighters. Before that, the nod would have to go to the Mitsubishi A6M2-3 Zeros. Late war, the best Japanese fighter was the Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate 'Frank' but quality control and lack of proper materials prevented it from achieving its true potential. A properly working Frank was a problem for even the P-51 and P-38L.
The B-29 is the obvious choice for the best late war strategic bomber. Before that, the B-17 and even the much maligned B-24 were king.
The B-25 was probably the best medium bomber of all time.
For lght intruder/recon, it is hard to fault the Mossie.

 

[theBaron]

For the B-17 vs B-24 question, I'd take the '24 over the '17, for its longer range and better load. The B-17 is the more storied aircraft, of course.

The Zero was a superb dogfighter, of course, but had poor range, and once the Allies got a good look at it, even before recovering downed examples, we knew that it couldn't stand a knockout blow. The Zero was the culmination of about 10 years or more of fighter design philosophy in Japan, that dogfighting capability, in one-on-one combat, was more important. (Not to castigate the Japanese for that, though, because pretty much everyone in design until the mid-Thirties still thought in terms of acrobatics and dogfighting, until construction and engine technology had developed to allow for faster, heavier fighters that could pack a more powerful punch.)

And I don't think we've covered dive bombers, except for mentions of the Stuka. I pick the SBD. Decent range, for an aircraft of its vintage, and load capability. And actually, a relatively nimble aircraft as well, with a tight turning ability. And so reliable that it was still performing better than its successor, the SB2C, until the last summer in the Pacific.

And for torpedo planes, the TBF/M Avenger. Not to take away from the Stringbag, of course, but the Avenger had a fantastic load, range, and handling capabilities, and could take a lot of punishment and still bring its crew home.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Louis Badolato]

For a light to medium bomber, my vote would be for the De Havilland Mosquito, one of the most successful and versatile aircraft of all time.

I also prefer the Jug (P47 Thunderbolt) to the P51 Mustang and the Spitfire (both planes which I love) because of its survivability, ability to hold its own with German FW190 and ME109 fighters, as well as kick serious butt in the ground attack roll.

 

[uksubs]

This one came with ten bullets & you can convert it to fire blanks

Picture of my Mp44

 

[Spitfrnd]

For a light to medium bomber, my vote would be for the De Havilland Mosquito, one of the most successful and versatile aircraft of all time.
....

The Timber Terror was an amazing aircraft. What else could happily intercept bombers, blow away tanks, stay away from FW190As, deliver a 4000 lb bomb load, land on carriers and even inspire the envy of Goring? It was notable that a single mossie could deliver the same bomb load (in two flights) to Berlin in less time than a Sterling could do.

 

[Njja]

Picture of my Mp44

Excellent!

 

[fmethorst]

Some of my personal choices;

Submachinegun - German MP44 (can cover the SMG, battle rifle, carbine and assault rifle category)

I disagree that the MP43/MP44 qualifies as an SMG. The MP (Maschinen-Pistole) designation was designed to hide it's development from Hitler who had cancelled further work on the project on more than one occasion. Originally this weapon had the MKB (Maschinenkarabiner) designation Mkb42(H). After Hitler forbade further development the designers hid their work by redesignating the weapon as a machine pistol for which there were no development restrictions. Hitler was not pleased upon discovering this but after hearing first hand accounts from the field of the excellent performance of the weapon and receiving requests for more of the weapon from field commanders he changed his mind. It was Hitler who eventually came up with the name Sturmgewehr (Assault Rifle) and the weapon was once again redsignated as StG44. Thus the assault rifle was born. Fortunately for the Allies Hitler's early interference combined with late war production capacity problems prevented more of these from reaching German infantry.

Now back to the point of my post. An SMG fires pistol ammunition (i.e. 9x19mm, 45 ACP, 7.62x25mm Tokarev etc.) The StG44 fires the 7.92x33mm Kurz cartridge, an intermediate cartridge, part way between a pistol cartridge and a full power rifle cartrdige. Assault rifles need to meet the following criteria to be classifed as such:

• Must fire an intermediate cartridge
• Must be selective fire
• Must support the use of a large capacity detachable box magazine

This is the reason the FN FAL and HK G3 are not assault rifles but MBRs (Main Battle Rifles) since they fail on point one and fire the full power 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge.

BTW. for those of you who are interested in classic small arms the Collector Grade publications are among the finest I have come across. I highly recommend them.

http://www.collectorgrade.com/store.html

 

[binder001]

I also prefer the Jug (P47 Thunderbolt) to the P51 Mustang and the Spitfire (both planes which I love) because of its survivability, ability to hold its own with German FW190 and ME109 fighters, as well as kick serious butt in the ground attack roll.

Good points. The P51-series is about my favorite aircraft of all time, but I feel that the USAF made a big mistake in the late 1940s when they got rid of the P47 and kept the P51 in "fighter-bomber" groups. Along came Korea and the P51 was used in low-level attacks where it was quite effective BUT suffered high losses from ground fire hitting the vulnerable cooling system. The P47 could carry a bit more firepower and was famous for coming home with entire cylinders shot off of the engine. Late P47s (such as the N-model) had almost the range of the P51, but I remember reading that their hourly operational cost was higher than the Mustang. I love the story that Spitfire pilots reportedly told P47s pilots that "if enemy fire gets too heavy you can always get out of the seat and run around inside!". A big, beefy beast of a fighter.

Gary

 

[Njja]

Picture of my Mp44

Uksubs:

It would appear the folks would rather talk about weapons.....then actually

use them

 

[binder001]

Uksubs: It would appear the folks would rather talk about weapons.....then actually use them

Meaning what??? At 57 years old I'm supposed to join the Army? The other option is to buy more firearms - which I am all for if I had the money. I don't have the time to do all the hobbies that I have now so I don't get out and actually use the weapons that I have. I used to do "cowboy action shooting" as well as play with toys. Now with model trains, model tanks, taking pictures and collecting some toy soldiers I'm out of time and limited on funding. I plan to sell my P99 and one of my sixguns to get more toys/models - at least I use them. I'd LOVE a real StG44 of my own, but not an airsoft. I want to take one out someday and cut up some paper targets both semi and full auto! A little dose of the smell of hot oil and gunpowder on a fall afternoon.

So if you have some, I'll be glad to come use them with you. I'll bring a Garand, an M1911A1 and a repro Winchester 73 to the party.

Gary

 

[uksubs]

Meaning what??? At 57 years old I'm supposed to join the Army? The other option is to buy more firearms - which I am all for if I had the money. I don't have the time to do all the hobbies that I have now so I don't get out and actually use the weapons that I have. I used to do "cowboy action shooting" as well as play with toys. Now with model trains, model tanks, taking pictures and collecting some toy soldiers I'm out of time and limited on funding. I plan to sell my P99 and one of my sixguns to get more toys/models - at least I use them. I'd LOVE a real StG44 of my own, but not an airsoft. I want to take one out someday and cut up some paper targets both semi and full auto! A little dose of the smell of hot oil and gunpowder on a fall afternoon.

So if you have some, I'll be glad to come use them with you. I'll bring a Garand, an M1911A1 and a repro Winchester 73 to the party.

Gary

My Mp 44 is a replica & not airsoft for a start , a real WW2 Mp44 will cost £2.500 in the Uk
In the Uk you can't buy real guns or replica guns from 2007
I would love to go to the USA to one of these gun clubs
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jFpsMcZYdAs

 

[binder001]

My Mp 44 is a replica & not airsoft for a start , a real WW2 Mp44 will cost £2.500 in the Uk In the Uk you can't buy real guns or replica guns from 2007

Sorry, I wasn't sure what kind it was, except that I was pretty sure that the UK wouldn't let the citizens have functional MP44/StG44 rifles. It IS a very nice looking replica - I always thought the Sturmgewehr was a nasty looking piece.

I know what you mean about the price, a modern-made semi-auto StG44 is about $4500 USD and an original (properly liscenced) is a LOT more.

Back in the late 60's my father was a National Guard officer who coordinated with law enforcement agencies. One evening he had me look in the trunk of his staff car and lo and behold - a beautiful example of Nazi engineering, an MP44 that had been confiscated due to lack of proper liscence! Unfortunately I think he was taking it to be destroyed.

Gary

 

[Njja]

Meaning what??? At 57 years old I'm supposed to join the Army? The other option is to buy more firearms - which I am all for if
So if you have some, I'll be glad to come use them with you. I'll bring a Garand, an M1911A1 and a repro Winchester 73 to the party.

Gary

Gary....just an observation no offense intended. I thought the posting of the

MP44 photo by UKsubs would have evoked some interest about its physcial

characteristic's, heft, rate of fire, take down, ease of use. How he managed

to obtain it, are they still manufactered......

As a former federal firearms dealer I have always been interested in Exotic

Firearms and the MP44 certainly fits that catagory.

I am suprised that on a Military Miniature Forum.....the actual weapons....

seem to have little interest or appeal.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Uksubs:

It would appear the folks would rather talk about weapons.....then actually

use them

Well thing is you got the assault weapons spin off thread running inside the main larger scope weapons discussion. Both are interesting and related but also seperate. I admire UK Subs MP44 replica, as noted, but there is no way you are going to get a old FP to miss a discussion on comparative WWII aircraft qualities, especially this one.

 

[Njja]

Well thing is you got the assault weapons spin off thread running inside the main larger scope weapons discussion. Both are interesting and related but also seperate. I admire UK Subs MP44 replica, as noted, but there is no way you are going to get a old FP to miss a discussion on comparative WWII aircraft qualities, especially this one.

Spitfrnd:

Yes you are correct, we probably need a seperate thread on military or

exotic weapons. Excellent point!

 

[uksubs]

Gary....just an observation no offense intended. I thought the posting of the

MP44 photo by UKsubs would have evoked some interest about its physcial

characteristic's, heft, rate of fire, take down, ease of use. How he managed

to obtain it, are they still manufactered......

As a former federal firearms dealer I have always been interested in Exotic

Firearms and the MP44 certainly fits that catagory.

I am suprised that on a Military Miniature Forum.....the actual weapons....

seem to have little interest or appeal.

I like this photo of the Mp44 with a infra-red night-vision devices

 

[Njja]

I like this photo of the Mp44 with a infra-red night-vision devices

Wow could you imagine lugging that into combat! I think that weapon was

quite an advancement for modern military weapons.

 

[OzDigger]

Good points. The P51-series is about my favorite aircraft of all time, but I feel that the USAF made a big mistake in the late 1940s when they got rid of the P47 and kept the P51 in "fighter-bomber" groups. Along came Korea and the P51 was used in low-level attacks where it was quite effective BUT suffered high losses from ground fire hitting the vulnerable cooling system. The P47 could carry a bit more firepower and was famous for coming home with entire cylinders shot off of the engine. Late P47s (such as the N-model) had almost the range of the P51, but I remember reading that their hourly operational cost was higher than the Mustang. I love the story that Spitfire pilots reportedly told P47s pilots that "if enemy fire gets too heavy you can always get out of the seat and run around inside!". A big, beefy beast of a fighter.

Gary

And who could argue with that

 

[fmethorst]

I like this photo of the Mp44 with a infra-red night-vision devices

The "Vampir" ZG 1229 Infrared System.

The concept included:

• SdKfz 251/1 "Falke" SPW outfitted with IR scope for the driver and a squad of grenadiers equiped with Vampir Stg44s
• SdKfz 251/20 "Uhu" SPW outfitted with 600mm IR spot light. This provided the long range illumination for the fighting group.
• Panther Ausf G fitted with IR spotlight and IR scope for night fighting.

http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/Nightfighting%20Panthers.htm

 

[binder001]

Gary....just an observation no offense intended. I thought the posting of the MP44 photo by UKsubs would have evoked some interest about its physcial characteristic's, heft, rate of fire, take down, ease of use. How he managed to obtain it, are they still manufactered......
As a former federal firearms dealer I have always been interested in Exotic
Firearms and the MP44 certainly fits that catagory. I am suprised that on a Military Miniature Forum.....the actual weapons.... seem to have little interest or appeal.

I see, now I've got it! I agree with your interest. I don't know what came first - my interest in guns or my interest in military stuff, but I do lean to being overly interested with how a soldier is armed than many other factors of the figure, etc. It can skew one's view of things - at the end of "The Sand Pebbles" the Navy guys are dying and one of my thoughts was "they tossed that mint-condition BAR across the stone floor? I'll bet they scratched it up!"

Gary