Falkland island battle?? (1 Viewer)

Martin Tabony said:
Still a touchy subject to anyone who had friends killed!

Martin
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Indeed it is Martin.


Now on a side note gents please remember that these discussions can quickly go south if it becomes political so which ever side of this conflict you are on keep that in mind so we don't have to close things down.

Dave
 
jazzeum said:
Could be but my recollection is that the generals then in power used the war as a way to deflect from their internal problems. Even though it was the wrong war for the wrong reason for them, no one likes to lose like they did, which is why it's probably a sore point.

Throughout history it seems regimes have used a war to try to paper over their internal problem.

Brad
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Yes Brad it was definitely used as a sideshow of more serious issues in Argentina, how sad that young men from that country and mine had to pay the price for that.

jazzeum said:
Jack,

I don't think so. The problem was the reason why they did it. As a Latin American and a person whose sensibility was formed by living in Uruguay and identifying with people from the Rio de la Plata region, I still think the islands belong to Argentina. However, it's probably never going to happen.

Brad
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Brad, I hope as long as the inhabitants want to remain British the Falklands remain British.Sad thing is for Argentina that if they had not invaded and used negotiation they may well have had a greater chance of regaining the Islands. The Argentinian president may once again be using this issue to deflect the population from other troubles, but I hope for her sake she does not underestimate the determination of this country to defend the rights of Falkland inhabitants, on this subject there appears to be an air of quiet but strong resolution on this. The government is also I believe making sure there is plenty of kit down there right now.

Rob
 
Rob said:
Yes Brad it was definitely used as a sideshow of more serious issues in Argentina, how sad that young men from that country and mine had to pay the price for that.



Brad, I hope as long as the inhabitants want to remain British the Falklands remain British.Sad thing is for Argentina that if they had not invaded and used negotiation they may well have had a greater chance of regaining the Islands. The Argentinian president may once again be using this issue to deflect the population from other troubles, but I hope for her sake she does not underestimate the determination of this country to defend the rights of Falkland inhabitants, on this subject there appears to be an air of quiet but strong resolution on this. The government is also I believe making sure there is plenty of kit down there right now.

Rob
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Well said Rob
 
uksubs said:
Well said Rob
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Thanks Neil, I think it very sad that both countries missed the chance to negotiate before the War, all those young men lost and all those grieving families. :( Funny isn't it, it's an appreciation of figures depicting War and our interest in one war or another that brings us all to this forum, but War is a terribly sad and horrific thing isn't it.

Here's a heavy question for an afternoon, but I throw it out there. With no offence meant to the older members of the forum, but do you think most of us collect for instance WW2 because we didn't live through it, would we be so interested if we had done??

Rob
 
Here's a heavy question for an afternoon, but I throw it out there. With no offence meant to the older members of the forum, but do you think most of us collect for instance WW2 because we didn't live through it, would we be so interested if we had done??
Rob[/QUOTE]

I'm not quite sure about that. In the 1960s and 1970s I knew many veterans who were perfectly happy to model the ships, aircraft and vehicles they served with, and in and even wargame in that period.
 
Rob said:
Yes Brad it was definitely used as a sideshow of more serious issues in Argentina, how sad that young men from that country and mine had to pay the price for that.



Brad, I hope as long as the inhabitants want to remain British the Falklands remain British.Sad thing is for Argentina that if they had not invaded and used negotiation they may well have had a greater chance of regaining the Islands. The Argentinian president may once again be using this issue to deflect the population from other troubles, but I hope for her sake she does not underestimate the determination of this country to defend the rights of Falkland inhabitants, on this subject there appears to be an air of quiet but strong resolution on this. The government is also I believe making sure there is plenty of kit down there right now.

Rob
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Well said indeed. Perfect analysis Rob!
 
I understand how British people may feel about this as well as how Argentinians may feel about this. I do what wonder, though, how people would feel if a foreign power occupied the Channel Islands.

Brad
 
jazzeum said:
I understand how British people may feel about this as well as how Argentinians may feel about this. I do what wonder, though, how people would feel if a foreign power occupied the Channel Islands.

Brad
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They did Brad in 1940 :salute:: :wink2:^&grin
 
jazzeum said:
I understand how British people may feel about this as well as how Argentinians may feel about this. I do what wonder, though, how people would feel if a foreign power occupied the Channel Islands.

Brad
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Brad,
People might have felt a little differently about somebody occupying the Channel Islands if there were no actual British citizens living there when it happened.

First to discover Falklands were British and French and later Spanish and my understanding is Argentina did not exist as a country at that time.

Brett
 
Interesting point Brett and to be honest I've never thought about how England came to be in possession of the Islands. It piqued my interest so I looked it up.

Apparently, their possession has had a checkered history since the 1770s when the Spanish acquired the French interest in East Falkand and the British, due to economic pressures, abandoned West Falkland; the British left in 1776.

In 1823, with Argentina now being independent of Spain, they granted rights to East Falkland but when the Argentine government attempted to declare sovereignty over all the Falklands, the British filed a diplomatic protest, which was ignored.

In 1832 British ships reached West Falkland with the intention to fix Port Egmont and affix a notice of possesion. In 1833 an Argentine naval officer traveled to the British ships and was told that Britain was exercising rights of sovereignty over the Falklands, asking the Argentine government to leave. Since the Argentines were numerically inferior, they left. Shortly thereafter, the British ships left, leaving instructions to fly the flag whenever other ships approached.

The colony seemed to become delapidated, with apparently a great degree of lawlesness. It seemed that no one was watching the store.

In 1834 the British returned and the first British resident was installed and the British stayed ever since although Argentina maintained its claim to the islands.

The above is a bit simplistic but until 1834 the Islands' ownership had a tortured history. The British may have the better claim to the islands although the way they recovered it in 1833 may be open to question, particularly as to the East Falklands, which Spain acquired from the French.

Thus, it would seem that both countries have rights to the Islands, although the days of colonies seem to be long past.

A rather intractable problem.
 
jazzeum said:
Interesting point Brett and to be honest I've never thought about how England came to be in possession of the Islands. It piqued my interest so I looked it up.

Apparently, their possession has had a checkered history since the 1770s when the Spanish acquired the French interest in East Falkand and the British, due to economic pressures, abandoned West Falkland; the British left in 1776.

In 1823, with Argentina now being independent of Spain, they granted rights to East Falkland but when the Argentine government attempted to declare sovereignty over all the Falklands, the British filed a diplomatic protest, which was ignored.

In 1832 British ships reached West Falkland with the intention to fix Port Egmont and affix a notice of possesion. In 1833 an Argentine naval officer traveled to the British ships and was told that Britain was exercising rights of sovereignty over the Falklands, asking the Argentine government to leave. Since the Argentines were numerically inferior, they left. Shortly thereafter, the British ships left, leaving instructions to fly the flag whenever other ships approached.

The colony seemed to become delapidated, with apparently a great degree of lawlesness. It seemed that no one was watching the store.

In 1834 the British returned and the first British resident was installed and the British stayed ever since although Argentina maintained its claim to the islands.

The above is a bit simplistic but until 1834 the Islands' ownership had a tortured history. The British may have the better claim to the islands although the way they recovered it in 1833 may be open to question, particularly as to the East Falklands, which Spain acquired from the French.

Thus, it would seem that both countries have rights to the Islands, although the days of colonies seem to be long past.

A rather intractable problem.
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Brad,
That's pretty much how I understand it. Now with that said, we have generations of islanders, born and bred. If there was a desire by the majority to come under Argentinian soverignty, I would personally be sympathetic, however, they generally don't and as such I support the British stance to afford protection.

In relation to this as a potential series of figures etc, I'd be well up for this as this was a conflict brought to my TV each night when I was 13 (yeah, I know, I had a hard paper round) and I was fascinated and for a 13 year old, this was real 'boys own' heroic stuff.

Irrespective of views on soverignty, this would make an interesting subject that hasn't really been covered other than the odd individual figure by Britains and the odd glossy piece or 2.

Cheers
Simon
 
Simon,

I can understand the Islanders' feeling of wanting to stay under British protection, considering the Argentine economy and all that. Of course, I can understand how the Argentines may feel as well.

Guess we won't try to fix the world's problem in this Forum ^&grin

At the very least (for me anyway) it has been educational learning about the history.

I'll leave with what Darwin said after one of his visits to the Falklands in 1834:

"After the possession of these miserable islands had been contested by France, Spain, and England, they were left uninhabited. The government of Buenos Aires then sold them to a private individual, but likewise used them, as old Spain had done before, for a penal settlement. England claimed her right and seized them. The Englishman who was left in charge of the flag was consequently murdered. A British officer was next sent, unsupported by any power: and when we arrived, we found him in charge of a population, of which rather more than half were runaway rebels and murderers."

Must have been a great place {eek3}

Brad
 
I'm not sure we're currently in much of a position to take the economic high ground!
Darwin has been discredited for his poor real estate evaluations. The sheep seem happy enough....{sm2}

jazzeum said:
Simon,

I can understand the Islanders' feeling of wanting to stay under British protection, considering the Argentine economy and all that. Of course, I can understand how the Argentines may feel as well.

Guess we won't try to fix the world's problem in this Forum ^&grin

At the very least (for me anyway) it has been educational learning about the history.

I'll leave with what Darwin said after one of his visits to the Falklands in 1834:

"After the possession of these miserable islands had been contested by France, Spain, and England, they were left uninhabited. The government of Buenos Aires then sold them to a private individual, but likewise used them, as old Spain had done before, for a penal settlement. England claimed her right and seized them. The Englishman who was left in charge of the flag was consequently murdered. A British officer was next sent, unsupported by any power: and when we arrived, we found him in charge of a population, of which rather more than half were runaway rebels and murderers."

Must have been a great place {eek3}

Brad
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BLReed said:
Not really, considering there is by some estimates 8.3 billion barrels of oil in the waters around the islands.
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Whilst that may be true I have not heard about any being brought up yet and the British were living there long before cars were invented.

Simple point is most living there are of British origin and prefer to remain that way.
 
At the very least (for me anyway) it has been educational learning about the history.

Brad,
It also got me thinking. Have a look at the history of Hawaii and in particular look at their flag{sm4}

Incidentally if there is anybody from Hawaii on the forum has there been any move to change the flag ?
NZ is looking into possibility of changing theirs and quite a few want to change the Aussie one.
Brett
 
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