favourite K&C poll (1 Viewer)

[petebuster1]

I'm suprised as a Brit on the low ratings on the civil war figures,thought that would might have been much higher.
Having been to many of the battlefields myself i have quite an interest,but haven't bought any of the figures as i'm trying to stick to Nap figs so are they poor figures or just not much interest?

 

[amhuff1]

I collect K&C WW1 & WW2 plus Britains Zulu war. I do not collect civil war but if I did it probably would not be K&C. I do not care for their civil war items. I believe it is one of their weaker lines. Love the WW2 stuff but not the civil war.

 

[petebuster1]

I collect K&C WW1 & WW2 plus Britains Zulu war. I do not collect civil war but if I did it probably would not be K&C. I do not care for their civil war items. I believe it is one of their weaker lines. Love the WW2 stuff but not the civil war.

#

Yes thats been the problem with KC imo, a lack of consistency in quality still finding some very good others not so.

 

[6th Wisconsin]

I have a couple of K&C's recent Civil War figures - one of each side. I think they did a very good job with them. My thoughts about why the Civil War figures rate lower in polls is because so many happen to be interested in other ranges in comparison (yeah, I know that seems obvious, but it speaks to the popularity of the other ranges). Another reason is that other manufacturers have produced more interesting poses for larger dioramas. Now, if K&C could combine the detail and quality of recent figures with the interesting poses of its earlier CW ones, it might do better. I think we would all like to see them do something like the 5th NY Zouaves in action, for example.

 

[Louis Badolato]

#

Yes thats been the problem with KC imo, a lack of consistency in quality still finding some very good others not so.

I have to strongly disagree with you on this point. K&C figures over the past couple of years have been remarkably consistent in quality (all of it pretty darn high). In fact, when you look at K&C's production history, figures from the same era of production are generally pretty consistent once the matt era commences in 1996, with the exception of (1) glossy figures repainted as matt (WS01-WS05, AK01-AK06), and (2) the early Soviet figures from around 1999.

There is also a consistent improvement in scupting and painting over the years of matt production (1996 to the present). Andy Neilson personally oversees K&C production, and takes a great deal of pride in quality control and overall improvement.

It kind of cracks me up to see people saying this or that company makes this or that better than K&C, because knowing Andy as well as I do, and having watched him work hard to improve the quality of K&C's products when there was no real competition for K&C in matt 1:30 scale figures and armored vehicles, all this tells me is to expect K&C products to incorporate whatever improvements these other companies have pioneered, as well as whatever improvements K&C can come up with on their own.

Honour Bound inspired K&C to substantially improve the track details of its armored vehicles, and Figarti's true 1:30 scale vehicles inspired K&C to produce vehicles which were 1:30 scale despite mold shrinkage, so I would be somewhat surprised if Napoleonic fans were not looking at K&C Napoleonics a year or so from now and seeing some of the techniques that First Legion has pioneered which have recently earned praise from the collector community.

K&C was the company which first blurred the lines between Toy Soldiers and Connosieur Figures, and it seems to me that First Legion has just taken the hobby one step closer to connosieur figures by adding the more complicated paint schemes and fancier bases (with a concurrent rise in per figure price). I love that companies like First Legion, Honour Bound, Figarti and John Jenkins Designs provide more choices to collect, and drive each other and K&C to higher levels of quality. Except for the economy, its a great time to collect.

 

[nmrocks]

Louis,
Got your back on this one, really can't believe anyone would think K&C has an issue with inconsistant quality... you can complain about scale but, you do not rise way, way, way above all others with inconsistency.
I have found people have a very short memory with technology and I believe it's true with K&C, it wasn't that long ago, when the majority of toy soldiers were for the most part unrealistic in both pose, form for sure paint quality.

 

[Kurt]

Now, if K&C could combine the detail and quality of recent figures with the interesting poses of its earlier CW ones, it might do better. I think we would all like to see them do something like the 5th NY Zouaves in action, for example.

Agreed. The K&C Civil War series has really grown on me. I hope there's some new stuff coming soon.

 

[petebuster1]

Please dont misunderstand, yes they have made great improvments and i love K&C figures. As a collector of mainly Nap figures i just find some quite a bit better than others for example the coldstream guards are excellent and the they've done a great job on the faces and seem a better scale to which lacks a bit on the old guard which aren't as good imo. NA10 the horse is sorry but awful.On other mounted some of the horses are better than others,not what i would call consistant.After their years of experience i would have thought they might have got closer to 1st legions quality before they had even entered the scene
Just my opinion but the proof is in the pudding, thats why some will be replaced with first legion.I personnally want the best available,not the second best. I dont mind paying a bit extra within reason for better figures,I make dioramas and obviously the better the figures the better the diorama.

 

[jazzeum]

#

Yes thats been the problem with KC imo, a lack of consistency in quality still finding some very good others not so.

I'm with Louis' and Ray's comments on this and as far as ACW I think the sculpting is top notch. Now, you may not like what Andy has selected (although I happen to) but the sculpting is some of the best he's done.

I'm also wondering why your comments just generally seem so critical everything

 

[petebuster1]

I'm with Louis' and Ray's comments on this and as far as ACW I think the sculpting is top notch. Now, you may not like what Andy has selected (although I happen to) but the sculpting is some of the best he's done.

I'm also wondering why your comments just generally seem so critical everything

i wasn't being critical about the coldstream guards was i? and i'm only talking about Nap figures not K&C as a whole and thats what a forum is for isn't it ?
I'm sure manufacturers want to know what we dont like about figures as well as what we do like.Put a first legion figure next to a KC one and see the difference, more factual than crtitical

 

[petebuster1]

Louis,
Got your back on this one, really can't believe anyone would think K&C has an issue with inconsistant quality... you can complain about scale but, you do not rise way, way, way above all others with inconsistency.
I have found people have a very short memory with technology and I believe it's true with K&C, it wasn't that long ago, when the majority of toy soldiers were for the most part unrealistic in both pose, form for sure paint quality.

I'm talking about recent Nap figures not the rubbish that used to be produced and by some still are (not referring to KC before anyone jumps out the pram), i'm not bothered about scale its the painting quality which makes a figure imo and wouldn't be difficult to improve on in this day and age though i'm not saying it isn't or has but there is room for.....

 

[Spitfrnd]

To me K&C does a very respectable job with most of its figures and is better than most with most lines. I think their painting is quite consistent but a bit over bright and their poses interesting for the most part but obviously they could do better. Their Crusader and Saracen line is excellent to me and maybe the best they offer. I like their mounted Napoleonics with the exception of the horses faces which they seem to want to always show with gapping mouths. They are not the only producer to do this however. To me, their biggest deficiency is scale with the bulky bodies, overly fat painted lines and oversized weapons, heads and hands. If they ever improved on these things they would be hard to beat.

 

[HAWKEYE]

I have finally purchased two figures, the robert e lee and the two standing wounded figures. I have not recieved them yet but from the pictures the quality looks great. I have some of the first series civil war figures which i thought were well done. The reason i have not ventured in more to the civil war is that my funds have always seemed to go to wwii, but having so much wwii i have started to venture into other kc areas. I love the crusader range and as far as quality goes i think the kgl figures i have are some of the best in my whole collection. I am anxious to view my new civil war sets. I would love to see george custer leading some yankee cavalry.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Please dont misunderstand, yes they have made great improvments and i love K&C figures. . . . After their years of experience i would have thought they might have got closer to 1st legions quality before they had even entered the scene
Just my opinion but the proof is in the pudding, thats why some will be replaced with first legion.I personnally want the best available,not the second best. I dont mind paying a bit extra within reason for better figures,I make dioramas and obviously the better the figures the better the diorama.

Pete,

I think you must be a relatively new collector, who is not fully familiar with the history of K&C, so I understand where you are coming from, but let me give you a bit of background. In June/July 1984, when K&C's first sets went on sale, there were no realistic Toy Soldiers in matt available from any manufacturer. There were only glossy traditional toy soldiers and ultra expensive matt connosieur figures ($100+ per figure). For the first 10 years of K&C's existence, they were part of the traditional toy soldier scene, making nice, sometimes outstanding, figures, but often addressing groundbreaking subject matter not generally done my other manufacturers (such as the Streets of Old Hong Kong, LAH, and Silk Road series). It was one of these groundbreaking subjects, the Vietnam War, along with Andy's passion for WWII, which led K&C to experiment with matt figures that blurred the line between toy soldiers and connosieur figures. In September, 1995, K&C released the first matt Arnhem figures, followed shortly by the first matt Vietnam figures, and previously released Waffen SS figures repainted in matt.

These figures were initially met by traditional toy soldier collectors/dealers with suspicion, but they eventually created a whole new market for more realistic, matt toy soldiers which looked more like connosieur figures but cost about the same as traditional toy soldiers. Thus, if you compare where K&C started with where they are presently, you will see a steady and dramatic improvement over time.

I think it is K&C's dramatically improved quality and the new matt market K&C created which allowed companies like First Legion to exist.

Now for your other comment about the "best" sculpting on figures. Again, I can only assume you are not a trained sculptor or artist, but I think before deciding which figure is "better" (always a matter opinion anyway) you might want to consider the following question: is Michelangelo's David a great sculpture? If your answer is "yes", take a closer look at it - you will notice that the hands and the face are a considerably larger scale than the rest of the David (just like the hands and heads on K&C figures). Why? Was Michelangelo drinking that day? No, its because the David, like our toy soldiers, was not meant to be looked at up close, it was meant to be displayed high up on the facade of a public building in Florence (our figures are meant to be looked at in display cases or on dioramas from a couple of feet away, not held up right next to our eyeballs). Trained sculptors are taught then when the sculpture of a human is meant to be viewed from a distance, the face and hands must be upscaled to permit the facial expression and the positioning of the hands to be visible to the viewer. That is why, if you are looking at K&C figures on a diorama or large display from a few feet away, you can get a better read as to what each figure is doing. Andy Neilson is a trained artist, and this is both intentional and effective. First Legion look great under a magnifying glass, but much of the effect of their sculpting is lost when viewed on a diorama or in masse. They are too close to connosieur figures to be fully appreciated unless, like connosieur figures, they are being viewed individually. For a collector like myself, who displays figures almost exclusively on large dioramas or in large showcases, First Legion figures won't give the most bang for your buck. First Legion is more efffective for a collector who prefers displaying figures individually or in small vignettes of perhaps 12 or less figures. Both companies figures are excellent and I don't think a collector who buys either will be in any way dissappointed, but I would be hard pressed to fault the sculpting on either. Just an art historian's perspective.

 

[damian]

Now for your other comment about the "best" sculpting on figures. Again, I can only assume you are not a trained sculptor or artist, but I think before deciding which figure is "better" (always a matter opinion anyway) you might want to consider the following question: is Michelangelo's David a great sculpture? If your answer is "yes", take a closer look at it - you will notice that the hands and the face are a considerably larger scale than the rest of the David (just like the hands and heads on K&C figures). Why? Was Michelangelo drinking that day? No, its because the David, like our toy soldiers, was not meant to be looked at up close, it was meant to be displayed high up on the facade of a public building in Florence (our figures are meant to be looked at in display cases or on dioramas from a couple of feet away, not held up right next to our eyeballs). Trained sculptors are taught then when the sculpture of a human is meant to be viewed from a distance, the face and hands must be upscaled to permit the facial expression and the positioning of the hands to be visible to the viewer. That is why, if you are looking at K&C figures on a diorama or large display from a few feet away, you can get a better read as to what each figure is doing. Andy Neilson is a trained artist, and this is both intentional and effective. First Legion look great under a magnifying glass, but much of the effect of their sculpting is lost when viewed on a diorama or in masse. They are too close to connosieur figures to be fully appreciated unless, like connosieur figures, they are being viewed individually. For a collector like myself, who displays figures almost exclusively on large dioramas or in large showcases, First Legion figures won't give the most bang for your buck. First Legion is more efffective for a collector who prefers displaying figures individually or in small vignettes of perhaps 12 or less figures. Both companies figures are excellent and I don't think a collector who buys either will be in any way dissappointed, but I would be hard pressed to fault the sculpting on either. Just an art historian's perspective.

That is why David has an extra large fig leaf.

 

[Louis Badolato]

That is why David has an extra large fig leaf.

Now that's funny!!

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

I have some of the earlier K&C Confederate figures and they were wonderful poses with good sculpting and painting. I particularly liked the 2 figures lying on the ground where one is passing ammunition to the other. These types of animated poses is what's missing for dioramas. Most figures produced today are shown marching, advancing, running or firing. I think unique poses offers a more interesting diorama. I have several of the new K&C Confederate figures, particularly Lee, Jackson, Stuart and Forrest. The sculpting, painting and poses on these are excellent and make a nice little diorama on it's own. I would like to see a couple of more Confederate Generals like Longstreet and Hood added to this group. Longstreet and Hood could be posed standing and holding there horses to make the diorama more varied or maybe one of them could be posed about to get on their horse. To me this is what makes a diorama interesting to look at. There are so many of the usual poses out there and that I already have that I am reluctant in getting any more. I congratulate K&C in their efforts to diversify the hobby. I would like to see a Union version of their Confederate command sets.

 

[Cyber Field Marshall]

This thread reminds me of sports arguments at bars! Everyone thinks they are right and that their team is the best. Ultimately they both have a passion for the game which unites them, they just choose different sides. This keeps things fun for fans.
K&C, First Legion, Honour Bound etc etc, as a collector pick what you want because you like it, period. No need to make overly personal attacks on people just because they have different opinions. Stick to your arguments, I think all sides have valid points here and have expressed them thoughtfully and intelligently, as they should be in a toy soldier forum.
I believe a forum should be where differing ideas come together, ideas are respected and both positive and critical threads are formed. This forum need not only be made up of collectors with "pom poms" cheering on their favorite manufacturers. Criticism can help things improve, it may taste like bad medicine at first, but it ultimately helps improve our hobby.
I currently don't have any First Legion figures, I've only seen pictures and they do look great. I do have some K&C Napoleonics ( don't tell Capitolron ) and I like them and I have noticed they are steadily improving, withness the new French Imperial Guard pieces, they are excellent.

Now play nice, thats an order from your Cyber Field Marshall.

Cheers the lot.

 

[petebuster1]

This thread reminds me of sports arguments at bars! Everyone thinks they are right and that their team is the best. Ultimately they both have a passion for the game which unites them, they just choose different sides. This keeps things fun for fans.
K&C, First Legion, Honour Bound etc etc, as a collector pick what you want because you like it, period. No need to make overly personal attacks on people just because they have different opinions. Stick to your arguments, I think all sides have valid points here and have expressed them thoughtfully and intelligently, as they should be in a toy soldier forum.
I believe a forum should be where differing ideas come together, ideas are respected and both positive and critical threads are formed. This forum need not only be made up of collectors with "pom poms" cheering on their favorite manufacturers. Criticism can help things improve, it may taste like bad medicine at first, but it ultimately helps improve our hobby.
I currently don't have any First Legion figures, I've only seen pictures and they do look great. I do have some K&C Napoleonics ( don't tell Capitolron ) and I like them and I have noticed they are steadily improving, withness the new French Imperial Guard pieces, they are excellent.

Now play nice, thats an order from your Cyber Field Marshall.

Cheers the lot.

Well said i think KC overall are excellent soldiers but there is room for improvement and with the coldstream they've certainly done that i do like the old guard but feel the faces could be better on a few of them.
I also think the franch line infantry excellent to but if you put them next to first legions Fls are better but i might try a diorama with both and see how it looks

 

[vandilay]

I think overall K and C has a good balance between quality and price ,
No they are not perfect but imo they are a very high standard for the $$
and deliver a very good product that is attainable to a good number of collectors.
First legion also look very sharp , but they are catering to a slightly higher price point so its good to have the choice between the two price and style wise .