Finally a fitting tribute to our wonderful Heroes (1 Viewer)

[Rob]

Officially opens tomorrow^&cool

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18501658

 

[waynepoo]

A long over due memorial, Australia just recently dedicated a memorial in Canberra to the 10,000 R.A.A.F personnel who served with Bomber Command during 1939-1945, 3,486 of them were killed in action. Lest we forget.
Wayne.

 

[Mitch]

Rob..

We have spoke many times about this and, its a great day for the RAF and, the thousands and for me, the english who took the war to Hitlers doors. We hit them hard and, with what we could: at a time when the world stood by watching the expected and inevitable capitulation of britain and the victory of germany.

Harris and the crews had other thoughts!!!!!!!!!
Mitch

 

[Rob]

Rob..

We have spoke many times about this and, its a great day for the RAF and, the thousands and for me, the english who took the war to Hitlers doors. We hit them hard and, with what we could: at a time when the world stood by watching the expected and inevitable capitulation of britain and the victory of germany.

Harris and the crews had other thoughts!!!!!!!!!
Mitch

Mitch,

We have indeed and what a great day it will be tomorrow. RAF Bomber Command burnt the heart out of Nazi Germany and gave back the punishment the British public wanted dealt out after what they had suffered. Bomber Harris was the right man at the right time. I'm very sorry but there was no such thing as pc in those days, it was total commitment in a total War, he was a Hero in my book and it was his determination and his single mindedness that destroyed large parts of Nazi Germany and helped cripple its War production. Tomorrow is a day for veterans and their families to remember, would not be appropriate for me to be up there trying to barge in for pics , so I'll be up there very early Friday morning to get some pics.

I do hope at some point K&C release a Harris figure.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Rob....

You know my thoughts on this subject. Without Harris and, the RAF, especially bomber command it would have been a longer harder war and, many more servicemen would have been killed. The germans coined the total war but, were unable to bring it to fruition. I am delighted that we finally have the memorial and, its long overdue. Should have been done in 1946 but, we have it and its a stunning memorial
Mitch

Mitch,

We have indeed and what a great day it will be tomorrow. RAF Bomber Command burnt the heart out of Nazi Germany and gave back the punishment the British public wanted dealt out after what they had suffered. Bomber Harris was the right man at the right time. I'm very sorry but there was no such thing as pc in those days, it was total commitment in a total War, he was a Hero in my book and it was his determination and his single mindedness that destroyed large parts of Nazi Germany and helped cripple its War production. Tomorrow is a day for veterans and their families to remember, would not be approprite for me to be up there trying to barge in for pics , so I'll be up there very early Friday morning to get some pics.

I do hope at some point K&C release a Harris figure.

Rob

 

[Rob]

Mitch, we totally agree on this, I think the vast majority want these guys remembered in a fitting and deserved memorial in the heart of our great capital. Absolute disgrace these heroes were never given a campaign medal.I understand a Lancaster will drop hundreds of thousands of Poppies over the service tomorrow , it will pass right over the Hendon Air museum at 12.30, so might pop down and see it. The ceremony is on BBC2 at 5pm tomorrow and then at 9pm on the ' Yesterday' channel there is a docu narrated by Stephen Fry called ' Who betrayed the Bomber boys' . Looks good.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Rob...

It is indeed a shambles that BC have been shirked for so long and, without getting into it and spoiling a remakable event and, a proud day to be English with the idiocy behind it the day will be IMO the biggest and most important event this year.

I have the programmes on record as I have another service to attend but, looking forward to unwinding and relaxing watching a great event tommorow afternoon.
Mitch

 

[Rob]

Rob...

It is indeed a shambles that BC have been shirked for so long and, without getting into it and spoiling a remakable event and, a proud day to be English with the idiocy behind it the day will be IMO the biggest and most important event this year.

I have the programmes on record as I have another service to attend but, looking forward to unwinding and relaxing watching a great event tommorow afternoon.
Mitch

Yes, kind of puts the Olympics and Euro 2012 in the shade doesn't it.

I hope things go ok tomorrow Mitch

Rob

 

[uksubs]

Great news and long over due . Very brave chaps doing that night after night

 

[uksubs]

Mitch, we totally agree on this, I think the vast majority want these guys remembered in a fitting and deserved memorial in the heart of our great capital. Absolute disgrace these heroes were never given a campaign medal.I understand a Lancaster will drop hundreds of thousands of Poppies over the service tomorrow , it will pass right over the Hendon Air museum at 12.30, so might pop down and see it. The ceremony is on BBC2 at 5pm tomorrow and then at 9pm on the ' Yesterday' channel there is a docu narrated by Stephen Fry called ' Who betrayed the Bomber boys' . Looks good.

Rob

Look forward to watching them Rob

 

[Rob]

Great news and long over due . Very brave chaps doing that night after night

Very true indeed Neil, the stress must have been incredible, we really have no idea do we!

Rob

 

[Jack]

I think that one of the gifts of the Bomber Offensive was not only what it achieved itself, but what it prevented occuring. Without it as a visible reminder that the Allies could strike at the Germans, there must have been a chance of a cross channel invasion attempt in 1943. That would surely have been an even tougher proposition than it was a year later.

I have interviewed a number of Bomber Command crew - only twenty all up, but quite a diverse group (other than the fact that they were all Australians). Almost to a man, in old age they had almost become pacifists. Twenty out of thousands is hardly a large enough sample, but clearly the world since 1945, plus the natural assessment of their lives that comes with old age, had left them questioning the whole experience. Interesting, because they did not have those feelings at the time, nor did any of them admit to moral concerns during the war. They might well have been influenced by the controversy that has ranged ever since, but so much of the criticism of the campaign does not take into account the situation that Britain and her Allies faced, nor does it draw sufficient distinction between the campaign in 43 and 44 and the one pursued in the final weeks of the war. For me, all discussion is coloured by the regime they fought. The end cannot ever justify the means, but Nazi Germany had to be destroyed.

Easy to be emotional about it, but those twenty guys were very impressive men and I could not help but be in awe of them. We shall not see their type again.

 

[waynepoo]

Jacks post is well said, below is a painting of a R.A.A.F Lancaster crew of 460 squadron who were stationed at Binbrook, Lincolnshire. The painting was done in 1944, the fate of the crew is a long and sad story which can be read at the Australian War Memorial site. LEST WE FORGET.
Wayne.

 

[Rob]

Excellent post Jack. Another thing to remember is that while many people seem to concentrate on Dresden and Berlin the RAF and USAAF hit many many other targets during the campaign, especially in the run up to Normandy, that no doubt saved many allied soldiers lives. In effect they cut Normandy off from the rest of Framce cutting railways, roads and vitally,destroying Luftwaffe airfields.
One can only imagine the possible carnage on the beaches had the Luftwaffe been in attendance in any strength.

We can argue about the merits and the morales of the bombing until the cows come home, but total war called for total commitment for total victory, and as Jacks final line says. the Nazis HAD to be destroyed.

Was going up tomorrow for pics but will instead be there at Dawn on Saturday before the London show starts.

Will be a pleasure to watch today as the RAF heroes get their fully deserved memorial , and finally I'd once again like to thank the late Robin Gibb for his fund raising efforts in the last years of his life, deepest respects to him too.

Rob


QUOTE=Jack;500920]I think that one of the gifts of the Bomber Offensive was not only what it achieved itself, but what it prevented occuring. Without it as a visible reminder that the Allies could strike at the Germans, there must have been a chance of a cross channel invasion attempt in 1943. That would surely have been an even tougher proposition than it was a year later.

I have interviewed a number of Bomber Command crew - only twenty all up, but quite a diverse group (other than the fact that they were all Australians). Almost to a man, in old age they had almost become pacifists. Twenty out of thousands is hardly a large enough sample, but clearly the world since 1945, plus the natural assessment of their lives that comes with old age, had left them questioning the whole experience. Interesting, because they did not have those feelings at the time, nor did any of them admit to moral concerns during the war. They might well have been influenced by the controversy that has ranged ever since, but so much of the criticism of the campaign does not take into account the situation that Britain and her Allies faced, nor does it draw sufficient distinction between the campaign in 43 and 44 and the one pursued in the final weeks of the war. For me, all discussion is coloured by the regime they fought. The end cannot ever justify the means, but Nazi Germany had to be destroyed.

Easy to be emotional about it, but those twenty guys were very impressive men and I could not help but be in awe of them. We shall not see their type again.[/QUOTE]

 

[Rob]

Oh and one final rant.

I'd like to register my disgust at Defence secretary Hammond , who having refused any government money to help pay for today's ceremony (that veterans and their families are having to pay )is going to attend and take up one of the precious seats that could have gone to a veteran or family member who didn't get one. The hypocrisy and self promotion stinks Mr Hammond, still anything to get your face on tv eh.

Rob

 

[TomNT]

I think that one of the gifts of the Bomber Offensive was not only what it achieved itself, but what it prevented occuring. Without it as a visible reminder that the Allies could strike at the Germans, there must have been a chance of a cross channel invasion attempt in 1943. That would surely have been an even tougher proposition than it was a year later.

I have interviewed a number of Bomber Command crew - only twenty all up, but quite a diverse group (other than the fact that they were all Australians). Almost to a man, in old age they had almost become pacifists. Twenty out of thousands is hardly a large enough sample, but clearly the world since 1945, plus the natural assessment of their lives that comes with old age, had left them questioning the whole experience. Interesting, because they did not have those feelings at the time, nor did any of them admit to moral concerns during the war. They might well have been influenced by the controversy that has ranged ever since, but so much of the criticism of the campaign does not take into account the situation that Britain and her Allies faced, nor does it draw sufficient distinction between the campaign in 43 and 44 and the one pursued in the final weeks of the war. For me, all discussion is coloured by the regime they fought. The end cannot ever justify the means, but Nazi Germany had to be destroyed.

Easy to be emotional about it, but those twenty guys were very impressive men and I could not help but be in awe of them. We shall not see their type again.

Excellent post Jack. Another thing to remember is that while many people seem to concentrate on Dresden and Berlin the RAF and USAAF hit many many other targets during the campaign, especially in the run up to Normandy, that no doubt saved many allied soldiers lives. In effect they cut Normandy off from the rest of Framce cutting railways, roads and vitally,destroying Luftwaffe airfields.
One can only imagine the possible carnage on the beaches had the Luftwaffe been in attendance in any strength.

We can argue about the merits and the morales of the bombing until the cows come home, but total war called for total commitment for total victory, and as Jacks final line says. the Nazis HAD to be destroyed.

Was going up tomorrow for pics but will instead be there at Dawn on Saturday before the London show starts.

Will be a pleasure to watch today as the RAF heroes get their fully deserved memorial , and finally I'd once again like to thank the late Robin Gibb for his fund raising efforts in the last years of his life, deepest respects to him too.

Rob


QUOTE=Jack;500920]I think that one of the gifts of the Bomber Offensive was not only what it achieved itself, but what it prevented occuring. Without it as a visible reminder that the Allies could strike at the Germans, there must have been a chance of a cross channel invasion attempt in 1943. That would surely have been an even tougher proposition than it was a year later.

I have interviewed a number of Bomber Command crew - only twenty all up, but quite a diverse group (other than the fact that they were all Australians). Almost to a man, in old age they had almost become pacifists. Twenty out of thousands is hardly a large enough sample, but clearly the world since 1945, plus the natural assessment of their lives that comes with old age, had left them questioning the whole experience. Interesting, because they did not have those feelings at the time, nor did any of them admit to moral concerns during the war. They might well have been influenced by the controversy that has ranged ever since, but so much of the criticism of the campaign does not take into account the situation that Britain and her Allies faced, nor does it draw sufficient distinction between the campaign in 43 and 44 and the one pursued in the final weeks of the war. For me, all discussion is coloured by the regime they fought. The end cannot ever justify the means, but Nazi Germany had to be destroyed.

Easy to be emotional about it, but those twenty guys were very impressive men and I could not help but be in awe of them. We shall not see their type again.

[/QUOTE]

Great factual posts Jack and Rob. War is a horrible thing and i hope none of us ever have to face it but sometimes to beat an enemy riddled with fanatical and evil people it does take total commitment which unfortunately in WWII involved innocent people getting killed.

Tom

 

[Rob]

Great factual posts Jack and Rob. War is a horrible thing and i hope none of us ever have to face it but sometimes to beat an enemy riddled with fanatical and evil people it does take total commitment which unfortunately in WWII involved innocent people getting killed.

Tom[/QUOTE]

Well said Tom, hope all is good with you mate.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Turned into a real good thread. Like Jack I have been fortunate to meet and talk with many BC crews not only through my Uncle John who was a crew member in Lancs and hit many german cities and targets repeatedly but, living for 6 years at the door step almost of a WWII airfield I met hundreds of visiting aircrew from all over the world who served with the RAF and, many still keep in touch.

I have met many who have been troubled in later life by the casualties that were published from targets they hit including John but, equally, I have met many who just feel no guilt or remorse for what they had to do to win the war and defeat germany.

crimes is one of the most overused emotional responses from a plethora of people who either were not born or, did not fight through the second world war. Armchair historians, many not that good, have told us what was wrong with certain actions I heard one defend the entire programme of air raids on berlin and hamburg yet say, dresden was a crime???? The logic is bizzarre.

Simply put, there was on the english side at the outbreak of war a gentlemens agreement in the RAF and other circles that bombing of german private factories etc was not allowed. It may not have lasted long but, lets not forget who actually had the track record of bombing civillian targets. The condor legion did not drop flowers when fine tuning their war skills in spain.

London, Coventry, rotterdam, warsaw, the list is almost endless to where the germans bombed and bombed heavily. I don't think its a crime that when your enemy uses a tactic and you use the same one but, much much more effective that it becomes criminal. I did not see the Luftwaffe drop leaflets telling the population to leave as they were going to be bombed... the RAF did.

German war production despite day and night air raids increased in the latter stages of the war so, imagine if we did not bomb!! millions of guns troops and ammunition could have been sent to the fronts not needed for air cover and defence and armament production would have been beyond belief.

I am proud that the memorial is opening and, personally hope it sticks in the throats of everyone who has tried to stop the men of BC being recognised
Mitch

 

[Rob]

Live on the BBC news channel right now.

 

[Rob]

The Queen has just unveiled a superb statue to the 55,573 Bomber crew killed during the War. Whoever was responsible for this statue has done a wonderful job{bravo}}

Rob