First legion waffen SS to come (1 Viewer)

WAFFEN ss series from First legion?

  • Waffen SS sounds great

    Votes: 26 57.8%

  • or im not to hot on fl producing SS

    Votes: 19 42.2%
  • Total voters
    45
Sgtkillroy1944

Sgtkillroy1944

Private 1st Class
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
196
yesterday i was reading a time life ww2 series book titled operation barbarossa and had noticed a practicular picture of SS troopers taking a breather after along days worth of vicious carnage in their first encounters with soviet troops on the ostfront it made me wonder eagerly in that if first legion would ever add an SS series to their WW2 series what do you think
 
It will be interesting to see
I think Matt had said no SS
but they were part of the war (history) ain't it ??
 
Matt said no SS parade figures. There will definitely be Waffen SS at some point. It would be difficult to potray most major battles, particularly later battles, without them. It just happens that Stalingrad and North Africa didn't see those units present.
 
I would like to see FL do Waffen SS It would be interesting to see the camo combinations. I would see this as being a range that I would be very interested in.

Is this collector speculation and hopes or, something FL has spoken about and will come? I know Stalingrad has some way to go in terms of releases and seems popular but, would they do another land battle on european soil?? They seem interested in the russian front so, how about Kursk?? I think that would be a great one to address as it has it all really and, moves one away from the urban battle
Mitch
 
Sorry, I know Matt would sell a lot of Waffen -SS figures, but I really wish he would leave the SS alone. I have strong feelings about it-- I personally find the fascination with the SS to be distasteful. Frankly I don't collect any German WWII figures, nor do I build models of Luftwaffe aircraft or build German armor (except as captured or knocked out pieces). I know a lot of folks build these because they are intrigued by the technology, or the camouflage. I also know that there were "Good Germans" in the Wehrmacht (I had a college religion professor who had been an officer on the Russian Front -- as he said, if you lived long enough, you got to be an officer). But what they fought for is just too disgusting to me to commemorate.

(Standing by for the flame responses.)

John Eckhardt
(4th Generation German American)
 
lcdr1635 said:
Sorry, I know Matt would sell a lot of Waffen -SS figures, but I really wish he would leave the SS alone. I have strong feelings about it-- I personally find the fascination with the SS to be distasteful. Frankly I don't collect any German WWII figures, nor do I build models of Luftwaffe aircraft or build German armor (except as captured or knocked out pieces). I know a lot of folks build these because they are intrigued by the technology, or the camouflage. I also know that there were "Good Germans" in the Wehrmacht (I had a college religion professor who had been an officer on the Russian Front -- as he said, if you lived long enough, you got to be an officer). But what they fought for is just too disgusting to me to commemorate.

(Standing by for the flame responses.)

John Eckhardt
(4th Generation German American)
Click to expand...

Hey John, nope ... no flame at all, at least from me.

The SS has always been a rather "difficult" subject to discuss and display. I would doubt that you will find even ONE guy here on TFT that even remotely supports the political views of the Third Reich or many of the atrocities that (certain) segments of the German Army perpetrated against….. well, actually everyone. (The Polish, Russians, German Jewish citizens and even American troops. There can be 10,000 posts on the “Good SS vs. the Bad SS” but it doesn’t really matter.

For many years I sold Nazi and SS military daggers and other WWII military items... boy did I get grief sometimes. For me it was a pure quest for knowledge and the maybe a sense of the holding “TRUE” history in my hands. However the cost and grief got to much. And Toy soldiers is sooooo much more fun.

Still, the SS is part of German political history (and WWII history) and I am a firm believer that if you don’t remember the terrible facts and keep them alive they will happen again. Can I separate the SS fighter from the SS murder … ummm ….I guess, maybe???
Still, I don’t have any SS troops but I do have many German Battle of the Bugle sets and Afrika Korps sets.

You are right in that it is a fascination because they do in fact represent the most evil of WWII in many folks eyes. But, the fact the that Japanese committed even greater number of atrocities goes pretty much unknown; for example Nanking, Bataan, Chinese, Korean women, American Prisoners and so much more. (Beheading Doolittle’s boys). You never see eBay ban the “Rising Sun” soldiers like they do the Swastika figures … just saying

So, John I guess be proud with your convictions and tolerant in your judgments!
NOW FIRST LEGION --- MORE Rev War!!!!!!
 
Listen John what u think and feel about it is ur freedom to do so
I collect AK because there were no SS in Africa
Rommel insisted no SS in Africa and there were none
Like Larry mentionned
Atrocities were committed by both side
U don't hear about the Russians atrocities especially
against the Poles then against the German people
about the Japaneses they were no angels either.
The SS represent the German soldiers in a time period in history
Nobody can change that but nobody should forget that.
 
FL said they won't do parade dress SS soldiers as that seems to glorify them. I disagree but, that is their right but, regardless of the distaste you cannot do correctly IMO many other battles than what they are doing without having SS troops. They were the fire brigade divisions and are a must if you want a balanced approach to the battles of WWII. The whole war was distastefull but, we deal with historical facts and need to address that we cannot just ignore whole sections of a world war just because it offends some.
Mitch
 
fmethorst said:
Matt said no SS parade figures. There will definitely be Waffen SS at some point. It would be difficult to potray most major battles, particularly later battles, without them. It just happens that Stalingrad and North Africa didn't see those units present.
Click to expand...

BUMP! I'm bumping this up in response to Mitch's post as it accurately reflects our position on SS. We absolutely couldn't cover certain battles without doing Waffen SS and we will of course do them in time. The only thing we won't do, and we've said this before several times, is Nazis on parade/pre-war LAH/whatever you want to label it as. We have no issue with the many companies that do make this nor do we take issue with customers who collect it. We are merely taking the position that we won't produce it.

Hope that clarifies this for everyone.

Best,

Matt
 
So far, neither the WWII battles/armies covered by FL included Waffen-SS, so it is a moot point. Furthermore, if Matt is SS-averse, which I respect, FL could do any battle in which both Heer and SS were involved, and ignore the SS. Especially in Russia, engagements took place over such great distances and with such large armies, that a collector can't make a diorama big enough to necessitate Waffen-SS. And as Matt has said, FL is a more diorama-focused manufacturer.

Personally, I had a hard time jumping into the matte side of the hobby. While it was primarily the great sculpts and exquisite painting that got me hooked on First Legion, Matt's decision not to do parade SS played a small part, and I would respect and encourage him to stay out of combat SS as well. It is not like there aren't enough manufacturers that do it, and I'd even say there was a glut in the market. If you look at the percentages of paratroopers and SS in total "German production" in the overall market, I have to concur that plain old Heer is woefully under-represented.

Just my two cents.

Dave
 
MapleLeaf said:
...Atrocities were committed by both side
U don't hear about the Russians atrocities especially
against the Poles then against the German people
about the Japaneses they were no angels either.
The SS represent the German soldiers in a time period in history
Nobody can change that but nobody should forget that.
Click to expand...

All true. I generally don't build or collect Japanese (again, except the captured or knocked out tank). And I am very selective in what Soviet pieces I collect -- feeling very uneasy about those. But I find the SS particularly loathsome -- it was an organization built on a philosophy of hate, something that can't be said about the Red Army or the Imperial Japanese Army.
 
Like i said before what u think and feel about it
is ur freedom to do so.
 
I would not tell a Bataan Death March survivor that the the Imperial Japanese army was not hate based. The Waffen SS was a instrument of war and they committed horrific acts no question but their battlefield accomplishments were exemplory. All machines if war have things to answer for.
 
I am pleased that the Waffen SS are going to be done. For me, with an interest in camo jackets etc I particularly want to see these done by this company and, I like the SS figures
Mitch
 
There will be some SS because they are a big seller
So Matt has to run a bussiness and historicly they were
a big part of WW2. So if u don't like SS do like me collect AK
because there were none there.
Happy collecting guys
Maple Leaf
 
I'm a Toy Soldier collector ,
I have no interest in the politics . The Uniforms of the Waffen SS would be a perfect challenge for the skilled painters at First Legion I would love to see it ...Regards Gebhard

dhm0972.jpg
 
There is no right or wrong position to take.

For me the Wehrmacht is just as complicit at facilitating the SS Einsatzgruppen as the Waffen SS. In addition to direct participation the very act of conquering territory and supporting the regime enabled these units to carry out their atrocities. Senior leadership was made well aware of the nature of the war in the east prior to Barbarossa. As for DAK being clean consider Einsatzkommando Tunis, Einsatzkommando Ägypten and Walter Rauff. Had DAK succeeded at winning the Second Battle of El Alamein and penetrated into the Middle East it doesn't take a lot of imagination to speculate about what would have happened in Palestine.

As for the Waffen SS their is no disputing that the early units were highly politicized After all they were created as a private army to protect the regime. "Leibstandarte" tranlates roughly to "Lifeguard (Bodyguard) Regiment". As the war progressed and new Waffen SS units were raised and older units were refurbished they gradually became much more like their Wehrmacht couterparts. Replacements came from wherever they could be found including the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. Foreign volunteers in the Wehrmacht were consolidated into Waffen SS units as well. Corps and Armies were assembled using any units available and could find themselves under Wehrmacht or Waffen SS command.

For me collecting toy soldiers isn't about commemorating anything. It is simply another way that I can enjoy the study of history.
 
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