First legion waffen SS to come (2 Viewers)

[Mitch]

Frank...

Excellent post. Indeed without the german heer support most of the einsatzkommando actions and deportations simply, would have been impossible. This discussion has been brought up many times in other mnanufacturers threads and I have particpated as that is a most valid point when folks argue against the SS being portrayed at all for their atrocities in the deportation and murder of the civillian populace. In fact many of the premier SS divisions had little input or time in these actions as they were too busy fighting. DAK has been mentioned and I am glad it has been brought up about some of the actions in that theatre. I think its been romantically portrayed as a gentlemans war and, a ''clean'' war well, the reality is it really was not. There are as many cases where so called war crimes were committed by both sides so, the abscence of mass civillians is the only reason IMO why it is linked with such terminology.

I agree that we should collect toy soldiers based on an interest in history and, as an extension to the history books and other sources of information. When one looks at battles or different events and decides its wrong to have this or that portrayed we go down a slippery moral road IMO. Heaven help us should FL ever visit the pacific as the japanese as an army and regime was far more brutal than the germans.
Mitch

There is no right or wrong position to take.

For me the Wehrmacht is just as complicit at facilitating the SS Einsatzgruppen as the Waffen SS. In addition to direct participation the very act of conquering territory and supporting the regime enabled these units to carry out their atrocities. Senior leadership was made well aware of the nature of the war in the east prior to Barbarossa. As for DAK being clean consider Einsatzkommando Tunis, Einsatzkommando Ägypten and Walter Rauff. Had DAK succeeded at winning the Second Battle of El Alamein and penetrated into the Middle East it doesn't take a lot of imagination to speculate about what would have happened in Palestine.

As for the Waffen SS their is no disputing that the early units were highly politicized After all they were created as a private army to protect the regime. "Leibstandarte" tranlates roughly to "Lifeguard (Bodyguard) Regiment". As the war progressed and new Waffen SS units were raised and older units were refurbished they gradually became much more like their Wehrmacht couterparts. Replacements came from wherever they could be found including the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. Foreign volunteers in the Wehrmacht were consolidated into Waffen SS units as well. Corps and Armies were assembled using any units available and could find themselves under Wehrmacht or Waffen SS command.

For me collecting toy soldiers isn't about commemorating anything. It is simply another way that I can enjoy the study of history.

 

[daruss]

I'm a little confused, did Matt say it was "definite" on producing WAFFEN SS, or is this just wishful thinking by some forum members. Also, i would like to know if the forum members prefer WAFFEN SS "early war 39-42" or if they would like to see late war "43 -45" because there were some variations in the uniforms.. IMO if Matt produces WS, he will probably produce WAFFEN SS in Normandy. Though i would like to see WAFFEN SS BERLIN '45..

 

[sammy719]

I just want to see the Western Front become a new line for First Legion, and to see the Allied forces against the Germans, whether that would be SS or regular army units doesn't really matter to me, there is enough blood on everyone's hands in WWII to go around, not giving the SS a free pass here, everyone knows or should know the history of SS, but they were a very good fighting unit and I'm looking forward to seeing how First legion would do the uniforms/camos/smocks and such, all good things come to those who wait...Sammy

 

[uksubs]

I just want to see the Western Front become a new line for First Legion, and to see the Allied forces against the Germans, whether that would be SS or regular army units doesn't really matter to me, there is enough blood on everyone's hands in WWII to go around, not giving the SS a free pass here, everyone knows or should know the history of SS, but they were a very good fighting unit and I'm looking forward to seeing how First legion would do the uniforms/camos/smocks and such, all good things come to those who wait...Sammy

I think Sammy make a good point would be nice to see Western Front done first

 

[MC BOWEN]

i'm a toy soldier collector ,
i have no interest in the politics . The uniforms of the waffen ss would be a perfect challenge for the skilled painters at first legion i would love to see it ...regards gebhard

View attachment 74041

Amen and i love the painting.awesome mike b.

 

[Mitch]

Have to say I would like to see early war SS as everyone has done the late war thing and, yes, they say its popular but, one company to address 39/mid 42 would be refreshing. There is also a plethora of early allied AFV's that would be great to reproduce. Perhaps some Totenkopf for france as LAH and Das Reich are way way overdone its as if there were only two SS divisions.
Mitch

I'm a little confused, did Matt say it was "definite" on producing WAFFEN SS, or is this just wishful thinking by some forum members. Also, i would like to know if the forum members prefer WAFFEN SS "early war 39-42" or if they would like to see late war "43 -45" because there were some variations in the uniforms.. IMO if Matt produces WS, he will probably produce WAFFEN SS in Normandy. Though i would like to see WAFFEN SS BERLIN '45..

 

[6th Wisconsin]

I just want to see the Western Front become a new line for First Legion, and to see the Allied forces against the Germans, whether that would be SS or regular army units doesn't really matter to me, there is enough blood on everyone's hands in WWII to go around, not giving the SS a free pass here, everyone knows or should know the history of SS, but they were a very good fighting unit and I'm looking forward to seeing how First legion would do the uniforms/camos/smocks and such, all good things come to those who wait...Sammy

Agreed. Buying Waffen SS troops doesn't bother me at all. I just don't get into the more political German collections from WWII, but to be honest I do think they make for a striking presentation and understand why others do like to collect them. I am sure First Legion will create very compelling Waffen SS figures when they do start to produce them. I haven't seen a range from them yet that doesn't make me drool a bit. I already have parts of 6 First Legion ranges just from this year alone.

 

[daruss]

When and if FL produces waffen SS, I think even some of the hesitant people will start buying them! Im sure FL will do a knockout job!

 

[Sgtkillroy1944]

it seems this had created a little stir,i have seen many very interesting points,i must say though I read that first legion will not be doing an LAH (SS) series which I was alittle disapointed to here but i digress in saying i would really like to see some basic if you will SS troopers in standard grey uniforms for a change as though i havent seen that many from any manufactures that have not in almost in every single Waffen SS figure added some sort of camoflage to them now dnt get me wrong i do enjoy the camoflage but i really would enjoy some plain old grey uniformed SS soldiers

 

[debrito]

Excellent...! Very well articulated.

There is no right or wrong position to take.

For me the Wehrmacht is just as complicit at facilitating the SS Einsatzgruppen as the Waffen SS. In addition to direct participation the very act of conquering territory and supporting the regime enabled these units to carry out their atrocities. Senior leadership was made well aware of the nature of the war in the east prior to Barbarossa. As for DAK being clean consider Einsatzkommando Tunis, Einsatzkommando Ägypten and Walter Rauff. Had DAK succeeded at winning the Second Battle of El Alamein and penetrated into the Middle East it doesn't take a lot of imagination to speculate about what would have happened in Palestine.

As for the Waffen SS their is no disputing that the early units were highly politicized After all they were created as a private army to protect the regime. "Leibstandarte" tranlates roughly to "Lifeguard (Bodyguard) Regiment". As the war progressed and new Waffen SS units were raised and older units were refurbished they gradually became much more like their Wehrmacht couterparts. Replacements came from wherever they could be found including the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. Foreign volunteers in the Wehrmacht were consolidated into Waffen SS units as well. Corps and Armies were assembled using any units available and could find themselves under Wehrmacht or Waffen SS command.

For me collecting toy soldiers isn't about commemorating anything. It is simply another way that I can enjoy the study of history.

 

[MapleLeaf]

There were no SS in Africa
The Europen theater without SS would be
like a basseball team without a catcher or
a hockey team without a goallie
Lets keep collecting toy soldiers and forget about politics
Maple leaf

 

[Sgtkillroy1944]

thanks maple leaf he said it boys plain and simple

 

[Firebat]

I blame ALL manufacturers for not doing more American stuff........The amount of ALL German stuff produced compared to American is very lop sided. Yea, I know German stuff sells and it becomes a business thing. But it actually may have gotten a bit better as of late.


Also BSP would like to use some First Legion WWII Germans in The Great Crusade.

Couldnt some of the German Figures First Legion produced be used on the Western Front. I have never studied any particular unit markings on FL Figures. But there were a lot of Germans still in grey around D-Day.

 

[fmethorst]

I blame ALL manufacturers for not doing more American stuff........The amount of ALL German stuff produced compared to American is very lop sided. Yea, I know German stuff sells and it becomes a business thing. But it actually may have gotten a bit better as of late.


Also BSP would like to use some First Legion WWII Germans in The Great Crusade.

Couldnt some of the German Figures First Legion produced be used on the Western Front. I have never studied any particular unit markings on FL Figures. But there were a lot of Germans still in grey around D-Day.

The Feldbluse (tunic) is primarily the earlier styles (1935, 1940), boots are the taller variety and stowage of certain gear (i.e. gas cape) on certain figures is in the earlier location. That said there are pictures from Normandy showing guys wearing both the older and newer styles of uniforms and boots. The only figures that really don't fit are the guys packing the Soviet gear like the PPSh-41.

 

[Firebat]

The Feldbluse (tunic) is primarily the earlier styles (1935, 1940), boots are the taller variety and stowage of certain gear (i.e. gas cape) on certain figures is in the earlier location. That said there are pictures from Normandy showing guys wearing both the older and newer styles of uniforms and boots. The only figures that really don't fit are the guys packing the Soviet gear like the PPSh-41.

Thanks for the info, most of my WWII knowledge is from the American side. Those Germans are hard to keep track of. :wink2:

 

[lcdr1635]

I blame ALL manufacturers for not doing more American stuff........The amount of ALL German stuff produced compared to American is very lop sided. Yea, I know German stuff sells and it becomes a business thing. But it actually may have gotten a bit better as of late.


That's what the plastic kit manufacturers (Tamiya, Dragon, Trumpeter, Italeri) have told us modelers for years -- German sells. So we have been treated with releases of obscure German vehicles and paper panzers (tanks that never were built) while significant American and British vehicles were ignored , or only represented by inacurate and badly molded kits from the 70s. It has only in the last few years that this has partly recified itself, but still German releases outnumber US/UK/USSR kits by a substantial margin.