FL Dilemma (1 Viewer)

[Firebat]

First Legion products are a very unique entity.

Here is what I mean....

Their stuff is excellent....

BUT...

They don't fit with any other figures.....this is a Big problem for a diorama builder like me.

They are very expensive...Just a Big problem in general

They don't retire them.... to me this is a Big problem, because you pay a lot for them and you could never get a decent return, should you decide to sell them.

Their WWII range is limited as of now. Especially no Western Front enemies ( Americans... Brits )

Despite the negatives I mentioned I still like them very much....so I am torn as to where to go with them. I have about 20 Figures and a Stug. Some days I say I am done with them and other days I say I am putting in a order for everything. If I do dive in, then I have to cut back else ware or sell some stuff. I wish I knew what their future plans were as far as what they intend to produce.

Cutting back would be tough, because I love my TG and TCS also. Figarti, I will never cut back on. Are any of you in this same boat ? Alex

 

[Phantom Warrior]

No. I'm not in the same boat at all. :smile2:

Terry

 

[sammy719]

Nope, only boat I'm in is the First legion boat...Sammy

 

[jazzeum]

Not in that boat as well. I get seasick anyway.

 

[fmethorst]

After the demise of Honour Bound's AFVs I found I was losing interest in the hobby in general. I wasn't satisfied with much of the other available product (variety of reasons) so I was seriously considering focussing on other hobbies.

Enter First Legion's Stalingrad line. Up to that time I had primarily been a late war collector (1944-45) with my main interest being in the east. While the mid war "Fall Blau" Stalingrad theme wouldn't have been my first choice the idea of a highly focussed range dealing with one enormous operation was very appealing. One of my beefs with the other producers had been the haphazzard release of 3-4 figures for battle X, and AFV for battle Y etc. Over time, of course, you could amass sufficient pieces to create a number of interesting scenes but it often left me wanting. Those interested in the eastern theatre, like me, were also hard pressed to find anything Soviet. I was also impressed with the apparent research that had gone into First Legion's releases with many of the more blatent historical errors not being present. Lastly, there was the overall quality of the sculpts and painting which I thought was very good. All of this combined to get me excited about the hobby again.

A second benefit of delving into this range is it got me more interested in the 1942 period when the Germans still had significant offensive power (although less than I suspect most would think). Reading books such as "Island of Fire " and "Death of the Leaping Horseman: 24. Panzer-Division in Stalingrad" (http://www.leapinghorseman.com/products.php?cat=5&pg=2) has been very interesting.

While I have dabbled in the DAK range my primary focus is still the Stalingrad range. There is so many possibilities with this range (years worth of releases) and my hope is the range will be sufficiently successful that we will get the chance to fully explore this truly fascinating topic.

 

[Vezzolf]

Great Post Frank....Well Said..........Nope....Sorry...not in the same boat at all....I'm glad that FL does not play the "retired products game" to stimulate sales (and they don't need to:wink2.....It keeps the speculators out who manipulate prices and drive up costs for everyone. The FL product is not cheap but it is highly detailed and high quality......It's great to have a company who gives you some time to purchase products that are consistent in scale and focused in subject matter.....thus gradually building up your collection.

 

[mestell]

Not in the same boat either Alex . . . . . I think that my FL Confederates blend in nicely with my WB Rebs as far as size comparison. When placed in the fore front with my WB figures behind them I am able to create a very impressive looking advancing or marching group of troops. I also know that if you ask our Napoleonic collectors they will tell you that Fl certainly does retire figures, and as an FL Roman range collector I just found out this week that ROM001 is no longer available . . . . and guess which figure I don't have yet . . . . .
:smile2: Mike

 

[Firebat]

Not in the same boat either Alex . . . . . I think that my FL Confederates blend in nicely with my WB Rebs as far as size comparison. When placed in the fore front with my WB figures behind them I am able to create a very impressive looking advancing or marching group of troops. I also know that if you ask our Napoleonic collectors they will tell you that Fl certainly does retire figures, and as an FL Roman range collector I just found out this week that ROM001 is no longer available . . . . and guess which figure I don't have yet . . . . .
:smile2: Mike

Yes the ACW does blend well but not the WWII. I am only doing FL and WB in ACW.

And I dont care about value, I would just like to get what I paid back, should I sell something. With their continual run I dont think that will be possible. No big deal though. I guess they will eventually retire some items.

I just wish they a few bucks cheaper, they really tax the wallet.

As Frank said their attention to detail is excellent and that is what draws me to them.....Well I guess my future WWII in this hobby will be FL and Figarti.

Thanks for your imput

 

[jazzeum]

Alex,

I understand your dilemma because you mostly do WW II. I just collect them for ACW and that is the primary matte ACW figures I have so I don't have the same issue that you do.

I know it's important that figures are compatible but there's nothing that says they have to be that way and they can each be enjoyed in their own way.

Brad

 

[Firebat]

Alex,

I understand your dilemma because you mostly do WW II. I just collect them for ACW and that is the primary matte ACW figures I have so I don't have the same issue that you do.

I know it's important that figures are compatible but there's nothing that says they have to be that way and they can each be enjoyed in their own way.

Brad

Don't get me wrong if I have to keep them separate I will.....I guess what I am saying is if they were in the size mainstream I could do so much more with them. I think what made me start this thread is, we are working on a Figarti Eastern Front scene and Nick and I said, too bad we cant use our FL stuff with Figarti, that would be cool. You could always use forced prospective for a picture, but for my own collection I like to do the best I can to keep similar stuff together.

Well as we speak I am planning my next FL order.......I will take that piece ....and that one...oh and that one....yea that one too, maybe not that one, no I will get it......Where will I cut back.....I know where{sm2}

Here is the icing on the cake, I used to collect NASCAR Diecast cars....sold them all....and somehow I got interest in them again...so I just got a few on EBAY...but just military and 911 themes. I forgot how cool they are. Hey you only go around once. Alex

 

[Blowtorch]

They don't retire them.... to me this is a Big problem, because you pay a lot for them and you could never get a decent return, should you decide to sell them.

Totally disagree with this. If they were to play the retirement panic buying game, at the slow rate they release stuff, I'd be gone. Right now I only have the armored car. It is so exquisite, that it is the first & last piece I bought; enough to make me realize that FL was in a class of itself & just wouldn't mix with other brands at all. The reason for holding off buying more is because I absolutely want a PzIVF2 for this campaign, and I just don't see it coming, and now I know only a FL tank is going to work with FL products. The PzIVF2 was a big piece of implementing the Nazi grand strategy to end WW2-ost in 1942, and to me 1942 just isn't 1942 without it. Kind of like having WW2 without a Tiger for the rest of you.

Now, if the PzIVF2 gets released some day, and all the other stuff is retired, I'm gone as well. If it gets released & the other stuff is available, I'll buy the lot in one swoop & be a customer for life.

I wish guys that speculate on this stuff would keep to Wall Street or Vegas like the rest of the population, and let the enthusiasts simply enjoy this hobby. Not to mention it's just embarrassing. If people are that hard up for an extra hundred or so dollars as adults, there's something much bigger that went awry with the master plan.

 

[nysoldiers]

I understand your concerns.....Ideally it would be optimal for all makers to have the same scale. Mixing different makers gives collectors versatility and more figure options.
I started out with FL's Napoleonic range. My personal opinion was that the square bases made them less practical for my dioramas. Unless you are massing them together on flat terrain or willing to blend the bases into your ground covering they can look quite awkward. Reminded me of a checker board set up. The figures themselves, though are well painted and sculpted.
I purchased their Crusader line which does blend well with K&C and I really enjoy their Landsknecht series so far.
FL has retired some of their sets, e.g. French Artillery and some line infantry.
Price value is in "the eye of the beholder" and certainly K&C is now getting closer to FL. Frankly I think both companies are too high but most will argue that FL is better quality.
As a long time collector I can say that we are lucky to have so many choices with quality makers and subject matters.

 

[Blowtorch]

A second benefit of delving into this range is it got me more interested in the 1942 period when the Germans still had significant offensive power (although less than I suspect most would think).

Fuel. That was the missing ingredient. The Germans still had the morale, experience, tactical superiority, numbers, and for the first time, technical advantage (PzIVF2, StuGIIIF, Marders, Pak40), AND the Russians were still sufficiently bad in the field & HQ to get rolled over.

This is the reason I never got interested in Kursk. OK, say they had pinched off the salient...where were they going to go? No fuel! Game was over in 1942

 

[Firebat]

Totally disagree with this. If they were to play the retirement panic buying game, at the slow rate they release stuff, I'd be gone. Right now I only have the armored car. It is so exquisite, that it is the first & last piece I bought; enough to make me realize that FL was in a class of itself & just wouldn't mix with other brands at all. The reason for holding off buying more is because I absolutely want a PzIVF2 for this campaign, and I just don't see it coming, and now I know only a FL tank is going to work with FL products. The PzIVF2 was a big piece of implementing the Nazi grand strategy to end WW2-ost in 1942, and to me 1942 just isn't 1942 without it. Kind of like having WW2 without a Tiger for the rest of you.

Now, if the PzIVF2 gets released some day, and all the other stuff is retired, I'm gone as well. If it gets released & the other stuff is available, I'll buy the lot in one swoop & be a customer for life.

I wish guys that speculate on this stuff would keep to Wall Street or Vegas like the rest of the population, and let the enthusiasts simply enjoy this hobby. Not to mention it's just embarrassing. If people are that hard up for an extra hundred or so dollars as adults, there's something much bigger that went awry with the master plan.

I want to clarify "Decent Return"...I mean just getting my money back. I am not a collector, I am a modeler, I am not looking for profit, I do not play that game.

But if something continues to be produced, if you decided to sell, it would be sold as used and you would loose money. If years down the line it was retired, after giving everyone ample time to get it. It would be nice to know you could get your money back.

My main interest is that a product is highly detailed and well made.

 

[jazzeum]

Although I don't speculate (except sporadically), I, too, am glad that FL retires things slowly, particularly as they are a little more expensive than other company's products (although that difference seems to be quickly disappearing). That means I don't have to worry about buying up all the Confederates at once, for example. After all I'm a Union man.

As mentioned I don't speculate but I'm glad that a certain company's products do fetch a nice penny on the secondary market. This has allowed me to purchase FL products, Civil War books, Jazz CDs and the occasional ticket to one of the professional sports franchises we have in the NY area.

 

[Blowtorch]

I want to clarify "Decent Return"...I mean just getting my money back.

Oh ok, I think you have nothing to worry about. A) FL is growing slowly, but it is growing & B) Germans always maintain value. Stick with Germans if you want your money back someday

 

[Blowtorch]

and the occasional ticket to one of the professional sports franchises we have in the NY area.

Well Jazz, I do see your point. Professional athletes & their owners do need your money more than you do. Multiple mansions scattered across the globe, staff to maintain them, accountants to hide their assets, jet planes to fuel, mistresses in every city to keep happy, glad you're looking out for their interests.

 

[Firebat]

Well Jazz, I do see your point. Professional athletes & their owners do need your money more than you do. Multiple mansions scattered across the globe, staff to maintain them, accountants to hide their assets, jet planes to fuel, mistresses in every city to keep happy, glad you're looking out for their interests.

Dont get me started on sports.....I hate when guys at work used to say I cant afford to bring my kids to sporting events any more.

No human is worth the money they pay sports people to a play kids game with a ball or puck.

And our Vets can hardly keep their families supported.......

Dont continue this here...but I had to get that out.

 

[jazzeum]

Whatever :rolleyes2:, but that wasn't the point of the post.

 

[fmethorst]

Fuel. That was the missing ingredient. The Germans still had the morale, experience, tactical superiority, numbers, and for the first time, technical advantage (PzIVF2, StuGIIIF, Marders, Pak40), AND the Russians were still sufficiently bad in the field & HQ to get rolled over.

Definitely agree. I would add shortages of spare parts as another factor that kept significant numbers of AFVs in the workshops.