Forces of Valor and swastika (4 Viewers)

[Der.Sack]

I live in Germany and displaying swastikas is mostly forbidden. None of my FOV models has a swastika on it. Now someone sells the Bf 109 G-6 (1:32) 80025 saying it is not a version for the German market and showing a swastika at the back. Can that be the truth?

 

[theBaron]

Servus, Saekerl!

They may have packaging for different parts of the world, and may omit the Hakenkreuz for kits going to Europe, but not from kits sold here.

I think 21st Century Toys/Ultimate Soldier omitted it from all of the their 1/18 Luftwaffe models, though it's been a while since I've seen them.

21st Century also omitted the Nationalist Chinese markings from their Flying Tigers boxing of the P-40, understandably, since the kits are made in Communist China. There were aftermarket decal sets available, however, to supply them, and I think they also made 1/18 swastikas for the Bf-109 and Fw-190. I think Bad Cat Toys was once site that sold them, and Monkey Depot might as well. If I can find the links, I'll post them back here.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Der.Sack]

Thanks for the Info Brad but there is still the question if FOV modells sold in other parts of the world than Germany already have a swastika on them or if the guy just placed a decal afterwards.

 

[scgatgbi]

From what I've seen, none of the FOV stuff comes with the Swastika. I know some of the 21st Century/Ultimate Soldier Planes had it. But I don't recall seeing one on any of my FOV stuff. My guess is he placed the decal as an aftermarket addition.

 

[amhuff1]

I have never seen a swastika on any of their FOV items. Some of the planes have an area that isn't painted where one would fit.

 

[Uthred]

I live in Germany and displaying swastikas is mostly forbidden. None of my FOV models has a swastika on it. Now someone sells the Bf 109 G-6 (1:32) 80025 saying it is not a version for the German market and showing a swastika at the back. Can that be the truth?

It's not only in Germany displaying the swastika is forbidden. Here in my state (Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil) it's forbidden as well. The thing is there are some fools who are neonazis around here...


Cheers...

Uthred

 

[4th Hussar]

I personally will not buy anything that has a swastika on it. However I don't believe my feelings should control the purchases of others.

 

[OzDigger]

Swastikas are not banned in Australia and my local K & C store has a large Berlin 38/LAH display complete with all the Nazi banners and flags. However I have noted that most Luftwaffe models imported into Australia do not have swastikas, but it's a simple matter here to buy transfers at local hobby shops and appy them where necessary.

Imo a WWII collection would not be complete without a K & C LAH display. But that is just my opinion and I can appreciate the fact that some members are offended by such displays and not allow them in their homes. There are some models and figures that I don't display for a variety of reasons and it amuses me that some members try to make some sort of issue out of that fact. I have enough problems working out what I'm going to buy next so why would I care what other guys put on their shelves

 

[Uthred]

I personally will not buy anything that has a swastika on it. However I don't believe my feelings should control the purchases of others.

I completely agree with you.

No swastikas here either. I don't like what they stand for.

Cheers...

Uthred

 

[Der.Sack]

Thanks for all the info. I don't necessarlily need swastikas on my models. I was just interested if there are different versions of FOV products out there.

But if anyone would ask for my opinion the swastika is just a sign with a long history and it was used a million times before Hitler existed. Of course it was typical for the time of the 2. WW but that was just a small part of the whole history. Besides that if something is typical for a period of time, why should you not display it? If someone thinks showing a swastika on a military model is ethical not correct, than I would say collecting military models isn't it either.

A lot of people use to go crazy about a thing that is just a sign or a symbol and nothing more. If I forget about the whole past of it, it's a very nice sign and it symbolises harmony to me.

Just imagine the Nazis would have used a bunny as their symbol. Displaying bunnies would be forbidden today.

 

[PanzerIII]

Thanks for all the info. I don't necessarlily need swastikas on my models. I was just interested if there are different versions of FOV products out there.

But if anyone would ask for my opinion the swastika is just a sign with a long history and it was used a million times before Hitler existed. Of course it was typical for the time of the 2. WW but that was just a small part of the whole history. Besides that if something is typical for a period of time, why should you not display it? If someone thinks showing a swastika on a military model is ethical not correct, than I would say collecting military models isn't it either.

A lot of people use to go crazy about a thing that is just a sign or a symbol and nothing more. If I forget about the whole past of it, it's a very nice sign and it symbolises harmony to me.

Just imagine the Nazis would have used a bunny as their symbol. Displaying bunnies would be forbidden today.

I for one do not see a problem showing a swastika on a scale model either.

 

[rossim1]

Me either, it's part of history nothing you can do about it. Up to the buyer if they buy anything with it on or not.

 

[Uthred]

Thanks for all the info. I don't necessarlily need swastikas on my models. I was just interested if there are different versions of FOV products out there.

But if anyone would ask for my opinion the swastika is just a sign with a long history and it was used a million times before Hitler existed. Of course it was typical for the time of the 2. WW but that was just a small part of the whole history. Besides that if something is typical for a period of time, why should you not display it? If someone thinks showing a swastika on a military model is ethical not correct, than I would say collecting military models isn't it either.

A lot of people use to go crazy about a thing that is just a sign or a symbol and nothing more. If I forget about the whole past of it, it's a very nice sign and it symbolises harmony to me.

Just imagine the Nazis would have used a bunny as their symbol. Displaying bunnies would be forbidden today.

The problem is not with the swastika itself. The problem is what it stood for, and still stands for today: nazism.

Here in Brazil the swastika is forbidden. That did not stop a handful of fools to become neonazis. Some of them were just arrested on gun charges, recently. A few even killed a neonazi couple in an internal power struggle.

There's no excuse for nazism.

Cheers...

Uthred

 

[Njja]

The problem is not with the swastika itself. The problem is what it stood for, and still stands for today: nazism.

Here in Brazil the swastika is forbidden. That did not stop a handful of fools to become neonazis. Some of them were just arrested on gun charges, recently. A few even killed a neonazi couple in an internal power struggle.

There's no excuse for nazism.

Cheers...

Uthred

Very interesting, I can see it outlawed in Germany, but why Brazil?

It is certainly evil, and in bad taste but it is perfectly legal here in the US,
with our freedom of speach.

 

[Uthred]

Very interesting, I can see it outlawed in Germany, but why Brazil?

It is certainly evil, and in bad taste but it is perfectly legal here in the US,
with our freedom of speach.

Why is it forbidden here?

Well, 1/4 of the population of southern Brazil, where I live, is from German descent (over 4.5 million people).

A few thousand former nazis, including war criminals, moved to southern Brazil and Argentina after the war.

As we speak the neonazi moviment is estimated in 50,000 members in Brazil (in a population of 180 million).

By the way: Brazilians troops fought for the allies in the Italian campaign of 44-45, Germany was Brazil's enemy during the war.

I see plenty of reasons to forbid the swastika and the neonazi party here, really.

We have freedom of speech here as well, but racism is considered a crime in Brazil. The nazis are racists. Any racist symbol, the swastica included, is forbidden because of our laws against racism.

Cheers...

Uthred

 

[Njja]

Why is it forbidden here?

Well, 1/4 of the population of southern Brazil, where I live, is from German descent (over 4.5 million people).

A few thousand former nazis, including war criminals, moved to southern Brazil and Argentina after the war.

As we speak the neonazi moviment is estimated in 50,000 members in Brazil (in a population of 180 million).

By the way: Brazilians troops fought for the allies in the Italian campaign of 44-45, Germany was Brazil's enemy during the war.

I see plenty of reasons to forbid the swastika and the neonazi party here, really.

We have freedom of speech here as well, but racism is considered a crime in Brazil. The nazis are racists. Any racist symbol, the swastica included, is forbidden because of our laws against racism.

Cheers...

Uthred

Well that is fascinating! I would never have guessed that, we have always heard a lot of Nazis went to Argentina, and Paraguay but I did not realize Brazil had a large german population.

I have read very little about the participation of South America in WWII, I
knew about the sinking of the Admiral Graf Spee but little else.

It is quite interesting to have members of the Forum from different countries it gives us a completly different point of view! The last thing I would have
imagined in Brazil would be a problem with Neo-Nazis! I also never thought you
had a population of 180 Million!

 

[jazzeum]

John,

In the great migrations from Europe to the new world in the late 1800s, many Germans, Italians, and Eastern European moved to Southern Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile because the climate and land was similar to Europe. The region that Uthred refers to is Rio Grande do Sul, one of the most important political areas in Brasil, where, I believe, Getulio Vargas, President from 1930 to 1945 (and later in the 1950s until he committed suicide about which there is still, I believe, much controversy) comes from. I studied Brasilian History when I was going to be a history major at Vanderbilt. Very fascinating people and history.

The Graf Spee was scuttled outside of Montevideo, where I lived when I was a kid (I also lived in Sao Paulo) as well.

 

[Uthred]

Well that is fascinating! I would never have guessed that, we have always heard a lot of Nazis went to Argentina, and Paraguay but I did not realize Brazil had a large german population.

I have read very little about the participation of South America in WWII, I
knew about the sinking of the Admiral Graf Spee but little else.

It is quite interesting to have members of the Forum from different countries it gives us a completly different point of view! The last thing I would have
imagined in Brazil would be a problem with Neo-Nazis! I also never thought you
had a population of 180 Million!

Well, most Americans don't realise Brazil was the only latin american country to take part in WW2, and we sent troops to fight in Italy, under the US 3rd Army, against the Germans. But that's old history...


Cheers...

Uthred

 

[Uthred]

John,

In the great migrations from Europe to the new world in the late 1800s, many Germans, Italians, and Eastern European moved to Southern Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile because the climate and land was similar to Europe. The region that Uthred refers to is Rio Grande do Sul, one of the most important political areas in Brasil, where, I believe, Getulio Vargas, President from 1930 to 1945 (and later in the 1950s until he committed suicide about which there is still, I believe, much controversy) comes from. I studied Brasilian History when I was going to be a history major at Vanderbilt. Very fascinating people and history.

The Graf Spee was scuttled outside of Montevideo, where I lived when I was a kid (I also lived in Sao Paulo) as well.

Yes, I was born and live in Rio Grande do Sul. The climate here is so similar to Europe we have snow almost every year! Yes, gentlemen, it snows in southern Brazil! I bet most of you thought I lived in a tropical area, but I don't.


You are right about Getulio Vargas and Brazilian history. But if you lived in São Paulo and studied our history, you probably know a lot about Brazil. Thank you for your compliment: we are fascinating.

Cheers...

Uthred

 

[Njja]

John,

In the great migrations from Europe to the new world in the late 1800s, many Germans, Italians, and Eastern European moved to Southern Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile because the climate and land was similar to Europe. The region that Uthred refers to is Rio Grande do Sul, one of the most important political areas in Brasil, where, I believe, Getulio Vargas, President from 1930 to 1945 (and later in the 1950s until he committed suicide about which there is still, I believe, much controversy) comes from. I studied Brasilian History when I was going to be a history major at Vanderbilt. Very fascinating people and history.

The Graf Spee was scuttled outside of Montevideo, where I lived when I was a kid (I also lived in Sao Paulo) as well.

Brad:

Very interesting, it must have been quite an experience living there when you were a child. Unfortunately most of our studies of South America simply
touched on the names and locations of the countries I am sad to say.