From Matchlocks to Caseless (2 Viewers)

[fmethorst]

Returning to the original purpose of this thread for a moment, I recall reading in Guns and Ammo magazine sometime back in the 1950s of a man who handbuilt a revolver chambered for the 0.50 calibre MG round. I believe I am right in saying that he only fired two rounds before his wrist was either broken or sprained. Can anyone remember his name, what he called the beast and whether it still exists in a collection or museum somewhere?

It must have been some sort of 50 cal wildcat cartridge. I can't see a 50 BMG being feasible in any fashion. Modern 50 cal rifles weigh in around 30 lb and come equipped with a muzzle brake.

 

[OzDigger]

The .500 S&W Magnum is atm the largest caliber commercial revolver and at 4 1/2 pounds it's a big puppy. You would have to have a screw loose to fire a .50 machine gun round from a handgun.

 

[fmethorst]

The MG42:

This is one of those revolutionary weapons that still influences weapons design today. The MG3 is clearly a direct decendant and aspects of it appear in arguably the best modern machine guns, the FN MAG and FN Minimi.

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg33-e.htm

While clearly combat proven and a leap forward from a manufacturing perspective it was not without flaws. The most serious of these was a bolt bounce problem. Essentially this is where the locking rollers bounce out of their locking recesses due to the energy of the bolt slamming forward. Before the locking rollers have time to settle the cartridge is discharged. This is an out of battery fire and can blow up the gun. This appears to be more of a problem with collectors using post war ammunition. German ammunition for the most part used steel cases (either laquered or copper washed) which are stronger than brass. The Germans acknowledged the bolt bounce problem and had engineered solutions but in the big scheme of things the problem couldn't have been that serious or the effort would have been made to implement the solution at the assembly line.

A telling paragraph appears in the armorers manual HDv 181/7 issued May 3 1944.

translation:

Special Happenings

A thorough research with regards to the investigation of the explosion-like happenings with the MG42 is being performed. In the replacement army, these MGs and the belted ammunition involved (also label the ammunition container if possible) in present condition (do not clean) must be set aside and shipped, including a short description of the happening, forward to the OKH Heereswaffenamt, Infanterieabteilung (WaPruf2/III) Berlin. Safety precautions must be taken if there are live ammunition or blank cartirdges left in the weapon .

In the combat army the MG in question must be set aside under the same conditions. A thorough description of the case is to be made with the assistance of an armorer and sent in through the regular channels.

With a post war bolt catch added this problem is solved.

An even simpler design was being worked on but never completed. The MG42V/MG45. While the MG42 used locking rollers they were in fact locked. The MG45 used the "semi rigid" roller locking found in the Gerat 06 / Stg45 where the action is delayed via mechanical disadvantage and then operates like a blow back. This removed the requirement for the barrel to move and thus eliminated the recoil booster requirement from the muzzle. This ingenious design traveled to France and then Spain where it showed up in the CETME series of weapons. It finally returned to Germany where it appeared in the Heckler & Koch series of weapons like the G3 and MP5 (The premier submachine used by police forces all over the world today). There is a certain irony that the post war German machinegun wasn't based on MG45 rather than the MG42 as it was likely a superior design. The Spanish CETME Arneli made use of this system. http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg25-e.htm

I've included a series of pictures demonstrating the steps in creating an MG42 receiver from a piece of sheet steel as well as a Rob Silver video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wipVRs7r5Wk

 

[trooper]

The .500 S&W Magnum is atm the largest caliber commercial revolver and at 4 1/2 pounds it's a big puppy. You would have to have a screw loose to fire a .50 machine gun round from a handgun.

Have just been scouting around the net and found www.abovetopsecret.com where a shooter described firing a Ruger customised by someone referred to as Speedy at Fort Worth which was chambered for 600 Nitro Express! He dislocated his shoulder with the first round. 600NE, that's an elephant gun round. Glad I wasn't in the vicinity.

 

[Sans Culotte]

That's the same contradiction that gun control advocates and gun ownership opponents here conveniently overlook, that criminals do not normally obtain their weapons through legal purchase. And your country serves as an object lesson in the failure of the kind of policies they'd like to implement here.

Anthony Burgess was relatively prescient in "A Clockwork Orange", wasn't he, in predicting a society in which honest citizens cowered in their homes, terrorized by and unsecure against punks who ran wild.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Sans Culotte]

The best Home Security system that my wife & I currently have is, as they say on TV, "not for sale in any store." Forget the guns, the dogs, the alarm systems; we have four ghosts. Oh, we have the other above-mentioned items, but they pale in comparison with the (largely undeserved) reputation that our ghosts have with anyone who lives in this area. Gun-control is one issue but I am certainly not for ghost-control. No background checks, no permits, absolutely nothing required by law. Ghosts don't acccidentally go off, the kids can't kill one another while playing or in rages, you can't blow your brains out with one, and you certainly can't go postal with one.

 

[1879fanatic]

We'll have to come down to South Cackalaky to help out!

 

[trooper]

One thing that's always puzzled me, the Germans used their 88s, an AA gun, as a very effective anti tank weapon. Why didn't we use the 3.7 AA gun in a similar role? I know they were used as conventional artillery on occasion in Italy but I don't recollect them ever being used in the AT role. They would have been far superior to the 2pdr. Anyone know?