George H. W. Bush's Avenger "Barbara" (1 Viewer)

[PolarBear]

Since John has been creating WWII USN planes, I wish he would do President Bush's USN Avenger. W. Britain has announced a figure of George H. W. Bush that is a very good likeness. Who would be interested in John doing this model?
Randy

 

[noli-poli]

Since John has been creating WWII USN planes, I wish he would do President Bush's USN Avenger. W. Britain has announced a figure of George H. W. Bush that is a very good likeness. Who would be interested in John doing this model?
Randy

Count me in. Waiting for this plane a long time

 

[PolarBear]

My wife and I saw George 41 and Barbara twice at the Ogunquit Playhouse in Maine. The first time was a production of South Pacific. When the Secret Service wheeled him up the aisle for intermission Pres. Bush was singing Some Enchanted Evening*

Some enchanted evening, when you find your true love,
When you hear her call you across a crowded room,
Then fly to her side and make her your own, (Wonder if Hammerstein put that in for Bush?)
Or all through your life you may dream all alone.
Once you have found her, never let her go,
Once you have found her, never let her go.

 

[Larry Allen]

Since John has been creating WWII USN planes, I wish he would do President Bush's USN Avenger. W. Britain has announced a figure of George H. W. Bush that is a very good likeness. Who would be interested in John doing this model?
Randy

Without question, I would buy one if John decided to make the Avenger.

First, simply because it is a Naval WWII plane, so … I'm in!
Second, it's John's work, so … I'm in!
Third, it is President Bush's plane, so I'm in!

--- LaRRy

 

[Phantom Warrior]

That would be one big model. At 1/30 it would have a wingspan of 22" and a length of 16". Imagine the box it would come in.

Terry

 

[mestell]

My all time favorite WWII US Navy carrier based plane. Would certainly collect an Avenger if one were made . . .
:smile2: Mike

 

[Larry Allen]

That would be one big model. At 1/30 it would have a wingspan of 22" and a length of 16". Imagine the box it would come in.

Terry

Good Point, but I wonder if John could devise a way to have a "simple" assembly of the wings, etc. to make the box (shipping) possible?
Some what like the last planes he released the last year.

--- LaRRy

 

[lancer]

Good Point, but I wonder if John could devise a way to have a "simple" assembly of the wings, etc. to make the box (shipping) possible?
Some what like the last planes he released the last year.

--- LaRRy

That's the advantage to the larger USN aircraft, the folding wings. I imagine John could make the wings detachable at the fold joint, like he did with the F4U. An Avenger, Devastator, or Hellcat should be doable without undo fuss in terms of shipping, if John is interested in doing such aircraft. -- Al

 

[Medic 314/79th]

Would love to see an Avenger, Especially the G.H.W. Bush plane. Or a Devastator, or Helldiver (the last one). or a Dauntless. Or F6F.

for folding wings. JD's efforts for the F4U worked well, just added a lot of incorrect appearance. What about something similar, but done in clear plastic? with some supporting fake mechanism in place for appearance?

Or, painted metal parts that are seriously strong, but very small. maybe can be bent back in shape if bent in bumps or drops?

 

[Terp152]

Just rec'd a TGM Waco glider with a 1/30 scale of the 83' 8" wing span. Packaging was simple but effective. So the Avenger should not be a problem with the much smaller dimensions. I did have to pay a "premium" shipping cost. Chris

 

[mafunzalo]

That one I would buy. Pres. Bush or not.

 

[ivanmoe]

Since John has been creating WWII USN planes, I wish he would do President Bush's USN Avenger. W. Britain has announced a figure of George H. W. Bush that is a very good likeness. Who would be interested in John doing this model?
Randy

Count me in. Waiting for this plane a long time

Without question, I would buy one if John decided to make the Avenger.

First, simply because it is a Naval WWII plane, so … I'm in!
Second, it's John's work, so … I'm in!
Third, it is President Bush's plane, so I'm in!

--- LaRRy

My all time favorite WWII US Navy carrier based plane. Would certainly collect an Avenger if one were made . . .
:smile2: Mike

That's the advantage to the larger USN aircraft, the folding wings. I imagine John could make the wings detachable at the fold joint, like he did with the F4U. An Avenger, Devastator, or Hellcat should be doable without undo fuss in terms of shipping, if John is interested in doing such aircraft. -- Al

Would love to see an Avenger, Especially the G.H.W. Bush plane. Or a Devastator, or Helldiver (the last one). or a Dauntless. Or F6F.

for folding wings. JD's efforts for the F4U worked well, just added a lot of incorrect appearance. What about something similar, but done in clear plastic? with some supporting fake mechanism in place for appearance?

Or, painted metal parts that are seriously strong, but very small. maybe can be bent back in shape if bent in bumps or drops?

Just rec'd a TGM Waco glider with a 1/30 scale of the 83' 8" wing span. Packaging was simple but effective. So the Avenger should not be a problem with the much smaller dimensions. I did have to pay a "premium" shipping cost. Chris

That one I would buy. Pres. Bush or not.

Okay gentlemen, now for the $64K question...

How much would be willing to pay for it? When the cost issue has been raised in the past, collectors have expressed concern about exceeding the current price ceiling of $288 USD. The TBF wingspan is a third longer than that of Jenkins’ largest model, has three crew compartments to model, a LOT of canopy to frame, and you fellas are discussing positionable wings. These things add up pretty fast (TM John Jenkins). Where are you willing to cut on other aspects of the model in order to keep the cost under $300? That’s a real question, BTW. Again, in the past, there’s been virtually no appetite for higher prices for better detailed models, hereabouts.

-Moe

 

[lancer]

I don't see how John could keep the price at current levels, considering the size, all the glass, and attendant details that would be required, such as the rotating turret and elevating gun, an operating bomb bay, with a torpedo or bomb/depth charge option, and the aforementioned folding wings. I believe a TBF will be a more expensive proposition than current aircraft. But that would be dependent on whether the collector wants all that detail. Obviously, do away with all or some of the options mentioned and prices will be different. -- Al

 

[Larry Allen]

I don't see how John could keep the price at current levels, considering the size, all the glass, and attendant details that would be required, such as the rotating turret and elevating gun, an operating bomb bay, with a torpedo or bomb/depth charge option, and the aforementioned folding wings. I believe a TBF will be a more expensive proposition than current aircraft. But that would be dependent on whether the collector wants all that detail. Obviously, do away with all or some of the options mentioned and prices will be different. -- Al

Afternoon Al,

TRUE, but I have noticed that the wooden planes made by Thomas Gunn sell very well. They are priced much higher than John's items.
T.G. makes only a (FEW) planes for each release and they do seem to sell out. I am not sure what would be my "breaking" point for price but I would not want to see John produce a (half-an-effort) to reduce the price.

Chances are slight but still fun to think about and debate the wisdom ^&grin of these types of things

Merry Christmas, Al

--- LaRRy

 

[lancer]

Afternoon Al,

TRUE, but I have noticed that the wooden planes made by Thomas Gunn sell very well. They are priced much higher than John's items.
T.G. makes only a (FEW) planes for each release and they do seem to sell out. I am not sure what would be my "breaking" point for price but I would not want to see John produce a (half-an-effort) to reduce the price.

Chances are slight but still fun to think about and debate the wisdom ^&grin of these types of things

Merry Christmas, Al

--- LaRRy

I agree, Larry. If John is going to make it, or any other bigger aircraft, I wouldn't want him to compromise his detail or quality just to clip a few bucks off the price. I might not be able to afford it, but John makes the best planes on the market and his attention to detail is the reason. Merry Christmas to you and family. -- Al

 

[Tinsoldier]

Very interesting, there are very many issues to this conversation.

The first is cost recovery and profit margin. Cost recovery includes everything from master to packaging and distribution. Many of us do not appreciate how complex that can be. And how fast this economics world can change on a dime. I would have said a penny but in Canada we don’t have them.

Distribution is being complicated by tariff/customs issues and logistics.

The manufacturer (producer) does not want inventory, so production runs are based on anticipated sales. This also is important in the demand for addition interest (investment).

How this affects the brick and mortar outlet is enormous. How much space can a store allocate as these displays get bigger(dollar/sq ft). And then there is their profit margin. Plus unsold inventory costs.

Now for the collector. How much space can you allocate, and how much bread is not on the table. You just have to look at the collectable market of diecast cars.

I collect what I want and afford. I do not have the opportunity of a tax write off or massive purchase from the manufacturer direct. If I can not be displayed it is not mine. This is not a negative statement but I hope this hobby can continue.

Don

 

[Larry Allen]

Very interesting, there are very many issues to this conversation.

The first is cost recovery and profit margin. Cost recovery includes everything from master to packaging and distribution. Many of us do not appreciate how complex that can be. And how fast this economics world can change on a dime. I would have said a penny but in Canada we donÂ’t have them.

Distribution is being complicated by tariff/customs issues and logistics.

The manufacturer (producer) does not want inventory, so production runs are based on anticipated sales. This also is important in the demand for addition interest (investment).

How this affects the brick and mortar outlet is enormous. How much space can a store allocate as these displays get bigger(dollar/sq ft). And then there is their profit margin. Plus unsold inventory costs.

Now for the collector. How much space can you allocate, and how much bread is not on the table. You just have to look at the collectable market of diecast cars.

I collect what I want and afford. I do not have the opportunity of a tax write off or massive purchase from the manufacturer direct. If I can not be displayed it is not mine. This is not a negative statement but I hope this hobby can continue.

Don

Many good points, Don.

I find it a bit amusing when we have these "discussions" on producing an item and seldom have any feedback or input for the manufacturer, be it John, or Andy, or Matt, or Brian …. ect. I don't know how many truly understand the "Business" aspect of this hobby. From some of the comments in many threads I doubt that enters into the thought patterns of us collectors to frequently.

Still, like buying a lottery ticket …. your chance of seeing the reward is small but the fun of just dreaming about it is good enough for a while.

--- LaRRy

 

[PolarBear]

From John 12/06/18

"The Avenger is on my list, but I have a 2 year waiting list at the moment, and an item like this would also take 2 years to develop.
So am not sure I can guarantee that it would ever get done."

 

[lancer]

From John 12/06/18

"The Avenger is on my list, but I have a 2 year waiting list at the moment, and an item like this would also take 2 years to develop.
So am not sure I can guarantee that it would ever get done."

Well, I guess that answers that. Now, what is on the list that IS being done?:wink2:^&grin -- Al

 

[King & Country]

Many good points, Don.

I find it a bit amusing when we have these "discussions" on producing an item and seldom have any feedback or input for the manufacturer, be it John, or Andy, or Matt, or Brian …. ect. I don't know how many truly understand the "Business" aspect of this hobby. From some of the comments in many threads I doubt that enters into the thought patterns of us collectors to frequently.

Still, like buying a lottery ticket …. your chance of seeing the reward is small but the fun of just dreaming about it is good enough for a while.

--- LaRRy

Forgive me in advance for entering John's space here with just a small point or two...

Re Larry's comment that manufacturers seldom provide any feedback or input on discussions about producing a particular item requested or wished for by an individual or group of collectors...

Speaking on K&C's behalf and as a very active participant on this and other Forums that just ain't so...At least on our part. Even on this particular aircraft K&C posted a photo of an Avenger prototype we were working on sometime ago.

Tin Soldier made many excellent points in his post about the difficulties of designing, producing, manufacturing, packaging, transporting and retailing a large model such as an Avenger and bringing it onto the market place especially at a time when that market is very 'price sensitive'.

I remember, from years gone back, that famous collector sentence,"I will definitely buy this or that model...IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT!"

As collectors we can all dream and imagine everything we would like to see and collect till the cows come home ...But the actual reality is that our choices are often governed by...
How much display space do we have..?
What the companies can practically produce at a reasonable cost and sell at an acceptable price..?
And very importantly...
How much money is in the individual collector's pocket at any given time when the much desired item finally becomes available..?

I remember one particular collector who loved the war in North Africa and at every show I attended, for several years, would always say,"If K&C made a Long Range Desert Group truck I would definitely buy one!"
Well, we finally did and,once more, the guy came into our room at the WestCoaster Show and I proudly presented the K&C LRDG truck to him...There followed an awkward pause..."Ah well you see", he finally said," I just visited So and so's room and I bought this'n'that...So maybe I'll buy the truck some other time!" And with that he departed never to return.

Wishing and hoping don't always turn into buying and collecting...
Best wishes and happy collecting,
Andy.