Gettysburg.So where DID Captain Johnston go????? (1 Viewer)

[UKReb]

Brad, have just been reading about LRT and it must be the first time I've read an author downplay the action up there, Guelzo does not disrespect or belittle the action on LRT but thinks it more of a sideshow than an almost War changing moment that it has been thought of over the decades. He also thinks Chamberlain down the queue when it comes to handing out of credit for that action. Interesting view and I wondered what you guys thought?

Rob

Rob

Quite a few ACW historians have come to the same conclusion as Guelzo that the LRT action does not compare with for example Culp's Hill or the First Minnesota actions on that second day. And more than a few of them believe Chamberlain's action was over exaggerated.

For me the unsung hero of LRT was Colonel Strong Vincent when he bypassed the protocol of command in not waiting for formal orders. He took it upon himself to move his brigade and place his regiments left to right 16th Michigan, 44th New York, 83rd Pennsylvania and the 20th Maine on LRT. As the fighting escalated on the right the 16th Michigan came under terrific fire and almost broke but Vincent stood atop of a boulder brandishing his wife's riding crop (given to him by her as a keepsake) cried out to his men "Don't give an inch". He was shot and tragically succumbed to the wound he received some days later unaware that Meade had promoted him to Brig General. But as he died he never got a chance to write his memoirs. Taking nothing from Chamberlain for he obeyed his commanding officers orders to the last letter and held his ground against all hazards and whether the bayonet charge occurred as an accident or not it was a pretty gutsy action per se. But............and well worth remembering Michael Shaara's 1974 Pulitzer Prize winning novel The Killer Angels has shaped modern popular perception of the LRT action that still resonates today some 40 years later. Until that novel and don't forget it was a fictional story or as they say today a "faction" story practically no-one except a few die-hard ACW nerds ^&grin had ever even heard of Joshua Chamberlain.

That fact has also been reflected in our hobby for- to my knowledge- there have been at least a dozen variants of figures of Chamberlain at LRT from practically every TS manufacturer but only one of Strong Vincent from an old Conte/Rocco set. However, its a spot on model featuring his prominent side whiskers and him holding that riding crop ^&grin

Final word from me on the subject of the title of your thread. Even with all the excuses of climbing the wrong hill, being mapless, the terrain shrouded in fog and mist, unlucky to have missed the mass of Union troops in the vicinity and even if he was suffering from acute excessive ear wax, I still say that- as a supposedly qualified engineer- on the morning of the 2nd of July 1863, Johnston flunked the exam ^&grin

Bob

 

[braddinpa]

I agree with you that the "killer angles" book and especially the movie had a lot to do with making JLC a larger than life figure. In fact I remember in the early 80's. that part was a largely forgotten part of LRT and overgrown. Then, the movie came out and he became the "new" hero. As you mentioned. Culps Hill is largely forgotten. Greene did an amazing job. And Pardee.

And of course. The charge of the PA Reserves

But I guess that is what makes GB so fascinating. So many what ifs.

Rob

Quite a few ACW historians have come to the same conclusion as Guelzo that the LRT action does not compare with for example Culp's Hill or the First Minnesota actions on that second day. And more than a few of them believe Chamberlain's action was over exaggerated.

For me the unsung hero of LRT was Colonel Strong Vincent when he bypassed the protocol of command in not waiting for formal orders. He took it upon himself to move his brigade and place his regiments left to right 16th Michigan, 44th New York, 83rd Pennsylvania and the 20th Maine on LRT. As the fighting escalated on the right the 16th Michigan came under terrific fire and almost broke but Vincent stood atop of a boulder brandishing his wife's riding crop (given to him by her as a keepsake) cried out to his men "Don't give an inch". He was shot and tragically succumbed to the wound he received some days later unaware that Meade had promoted him to Brig General. But as he died he never got a chance to write his memoirs. Taking nothing from Chamberlain for he obeyed his commanding officers orders to the last letter and held his ground against all hazards and whether the bayonet charge occurred as an accident or not it was a pretty gutsy action per se. But............and well worth remembering Michael Shaara's 1974 Pulitzer Prize winning novel The Killer Angels has shaped modern popular perception of the LRT action that still resonates today some 40 years later. Until that novel and don't forget it was a fictional story or as they say today a "faction" story practically no-one except a few die-hard ACW nerds ^&grin had ever even heard of Joshua Chamberlain.

That fact has also been reflected in our hobby for- to my knowledge- there have been at least a dozen variants of figures of Chamberlain at LRT from practically every TS manufacturer but only one of Strong Vincent from an old Conte/Rocco set. However, its a spot on model featuring his prominent side whiskers and him holding that riding crop ^&grin

Final word from me on the subject of the title of your thread. Even with all the excuses of climbing the wrong hill, being mapless, the terrain shrouded in fog and mist, unlucky to have missed the mass of Union troops in the vicinity and even if he was suffering from acute excessive ear wax, I still say that- as a supposedly qualified engineer- on the morning of the 2nd of July 1863, Johnston flunked the exam ^&grin

Bob

 

[Rob]

Rob

Quite a few ACW historians have come to the same conclusion as Guelzo that the LRT action does not compare with for example Culp's Hill or the First Minnesota actions on that second day. And more than a few of them believe Chamberlain's action was over exaggerated.

For me the unsung hero of LRT was Colonel Strong Vincent when he bypassed the protocol of command in not waiting for formal orders. He took it upon himself to move his brigade and place his regiments left to right 16th Michigan, 44th New York, 83rd Pennsylvania and the 20th Maine on LRT. As the fighting escalated on the right the 16th Michigan came under terrific fire and almost broke but Vincent stood atop of a boulder brandishing his wife's riding crop (given to him by her as a keepsake) cried out to his men "Don't give an inch". He was shot and tragically succumbed to the wound he received some days later unaware that Meade had promoted him to Brig General. But as he died he never got a chance to write his memoirs. Taking nothing from Chamberlain for he obeyed his commanding officers orders to the last letter and held his ground against all hazards and whether the bayonet charge occurred as an accident or not it was a pretty gutsy action per se. But............and well worth remembering Michael Shaara's 1974 Pulitzer Prize winning novel The Killer Angels has shaped modern popular perception of the LRT action that still resonates today some 40 years later. Until that novel and don't forget it was a fictional story or as they say today a "faction" story practically no-one except a few die-hard ACW nerds ^&grin had ever even heard of Joshua Chamberlain.

That fact has also been reflected in our hobby for- to my knowledge- there have been at least a dozen variants of figures of Chamberlain at LRT from practically every TS manufacturer but only one of Strong Vincent from an old Conte/Rocco set. However, its a spot on model featuring his prominent side whiskers and him holding that riding crop ^&grin

Final word from me on the subject of the title of your thread. Even with all the excuses of climbing the wrong hill, being mapless, the terrain shrouded in fog and mist, unlucky to have missed the mass of Union troops in the vicinity and even if he was suffering from acute excessive ear wax, I still say that- as a supposedly qualified engineer- on the morning of the 2nd of July 1863, Johnston flunked the exam ^&grin

Bob

Fully agree Bob, so whilst not in any way playing down the bravery and heroism up there atop the top , maybe not the 'War winning' moment many believe. Got to say I also could not agree more re the First Minnesota , just been reading about their action that day and it is pure heroism and unquestioning devotion to duty with a result far beyond what their numbers would normally bring about. Jaw dropping stuff.

Rob