Grant biography on History Channel tonight (1 Viewer)

[nysoldiers]

A three part series on the life of Ulysses S. Grant starts tonight on the History Channel in the States. Based on Ron Chernow's
excellent book, which I consider one of the best historical biographies, it should be an interesting viewing.
Should at least be worth a discussion on this forum when completed. No doubt that Grant is controversial depending on your
views of the Civil War and his presidency.

 

[jazzeum]

Another civil war thread? Can’t wait. Along with LAH and Nazis, probably the biggest source of controversy on this forum.

I’ve never a big Chernow fan. I’ve always found his books a bit turgid, especially the Hamilton one. If I’m going to recommend one book on Grant to read, it would be Brook Simpson’s book, a recognized Civil War scholar by the way.

 

[nysoldiers]

Another civil war thread? Can’t wait. Along with LAH and Nazis, probably the biggest source of controversy on this forum.

I’ve never a big Chernow fan. I’ve always found his books a bit turgid, especially the Hamilton one. If I’m going to recommend one book on Grant to read, it would be Brook Simpson’s book, a recognized Civil War scholar by the way.

I read Simpson's Book (Triumph over Adversity) and enjoyed it but still liked Chernow's more. I enjoyed learning more about his early life.
I thought this well reviewed series would be of some interest to our members who are interested in the Civil War, just a point of information.
It seems everything today is controversial but that shouldn't stop us from listening and learning from different sources. As I know well, we have
moderators to referee our discussions if they get out of hand. If we can't discuss history on a Toy Soldier forum then i am at a loss for what is
relevant to our hobby.

 

[jazzeum]

I read Simpson's Book (Triumph over Adversity) and enjoyed it but still liked Chernow's more. I enjoyed learning more about his early life.
I thought this well reviewed series would be of some interest to our members who are interested in the Civil War, just a point of information.
It seems everything today is controversial but that shouldn't stop us from listening and learning from different sources. As I know well, we have
moderators to referee our discussions if they get out of hand. If we can't discuss history on a Toy Soldier forum then i am at a loss for what is
relevant to our hobby.

Actually, the Simpson book is not my favorite book on Grant. I like the one by Ronald C. White, who has written some terrific books on Lincoln. I tend to like and trust books from specialists in the field and Chernow is not that.

As far as discussion, this will inevitably lead to a back and forth and a donnybrook that I’ve seen so many times before, probably between you and Tom. As I said the Civil War is one of those hot button issues on this forum that just leads nowhere but, hey, don’t mind me. I just know where it will lead. If you want good discussion, look at the Civil War Memory site or civilwartalk.com

 

[jazzeum]

You might find this interesting, a reaction by someone who does a lot of research on Grant, https://twitter.com/nicksacco55/status/1265247008408973313?s=21

 

[Go for Broke]

I gave up Barkskins to watch Grant and really enjoyed it. The story about Grant working along his slave and then freeing him, despite being broke and could have made a profit selling the slave, would be the stuff of legends. Like George Washington and the cherry tree and Abe Lincoln walking 5-miles to return a book. I love stories of character.

 

[tdubel]

Actually, the Simpson book is not my favorite book on Grant. I like the one by Ronald C. White, who has written some terrific books on Lincoln. I tend to like and trust books from specialists in the field and Chernow is not that.

As far as discussion, this will inevitably lead to a back and forth and a donnybrook that I’ve seen so many times before, probably between you and Tom. As I said the Civil War is one of those hot button issues on this forum that just leads nowhere but, hey, don’t mind me. I just know where it will lead. If you want good discussion, look at the Civil War Memory site or civilwartalk.com

Brad, I don't think Rich and I have ever fought over the Civil War! I am of the opinion that history of that war when I was a kid was taught pretty straight. The facts of slavery, states rights, brother against brother, John C. Calhoun, Grant, Lee, etc. I felt like my education on the subject was not watered down to one topic which is what it is today. That is my gripe. I don't call Southerners Traitors nor do I call Northerners barbarians. Each side fought for the same nation, albeit a different viewpoint. At the end of the day, they came back together and Lee and MOST former Confederate leaders joined or eventually joined into the greater nation. Sure there were some on both sides who bore hatred as is every other war that is fought.

Ok, so that said, I will await the reviews on this mini series before watching it and that is not because of the subject, it is because too many of these type of shows become wandering editorials and play loosely with the facts. I am NOT saying this one will do that, I am saying I want to see the reviews first. And I actually find Grant to be an interesting study and have read a number of the references on here about him.

Hopefully this is a worthwhile show.
TD

 

[jazzeum]

Brad, I don't think Rich and I have ever fought over the Civil War!
TD

As Bruce Buffer says at the beginning of each UFC main event, “It is Time!”

https://youtu.be/irFtTYP-H6I

 

[tdubel]

As Bruce Buffer says at the beginning of each UFC main event, “It is Time!”

https://youtu.be/irFtTYP-H6I

That cracked me up! Actually just for everyone on the board, Rich and I really do get along well, he/I like to debate, but I always feel like I learned something after.

TD

 

[nysoldiers]

That cracked me up! Actually just for everyone on the board, Rich and I really do get along well, he/I like to debate, but I always feel like I learned something after.

TD

"ditto"

 

[Warrior]

Grant's seige of Vicksburg was surgical, brilliant on every level.

The Overland Campaign was brutal and a real slog, but it was necessary, Grant ground the ANV down, not to mention it was a five pronged assault on the South once Grant took over, he did not allow the Confederates to move and plug, he fought them with essentially 5 different armies in 5 areas of operation, it was a brilliant strategy.

The ACW was fought in the East, but won in the West.

WWII was fought in the West, but won in the East.

 

[paxtoysoldier]

That cracked me up! Actually just for everyone on the board, Rich and I really do get along well, he/I like to debate, but I always feel like I learned something after.

TD

That cracked me up too. I bet we could have a good civilized chat about the miniseries and Grant, but Jazzeum is probably right about this being a controversial topic.
Still, forum members know alot more than your average person about the ACW, regardless of partisanship.
So I'll start and say that I generally liked it. But they made him seem like he was better than he was regarding his stance on slavery and the brutality of reconstruction. I am reading Chernow and I read Simpson years ago but I'm no expert. I just think Vicksburg was genius, I wanted to see even more battles and far fewer commercials.
Any thoughts that won't start another civil war? It is an interesting topic.
Paddy

 

[Go for Broke]

I like history, but am no expert. I really liked the series. Grant fighting the war, then a two term president, trying to reconstruct the South, makes the handling of this pandemic crisis look like something minor. I found it interesting that Southerners wrote the history of the Civil War and as a result, more was written about Lee and Grant became a footnote in history.

 

[Warrior]

I like history, but am no expert. I really liked the series. Grant fighting the war, then a two term president, trying to reconstruct the South, makes the handling of this pandemic crisis look like something minor. I found it interesting that Southerners wrote the history of the Civil War and as a result, more was written about Lee and Grant became a footnote in history.

It's funny because usually the victors write the history of wars, but in this case, yes, it's the other way around...……...Lee is portrayed as a noble warrior, a man fighting for old Virginia, while Grant was a boozebag who smoked 20 cigars a day and played second fiddle to Lee.

Grant's Overland Campaign is commonly viewed as a bludgeoning of the Army of Northern Virginia, a meat grinder and Grant was a butcher...………….yeah; no.

IMO the only misstep Grant made was Cold Harbor, I don't find fault in anything else he did.

After the two day battle in the Wilderness, instead of retreating, Grant moved south.

I think at that point Lee knew he was in trouble.

The program glossed over Spotsylvania, which is too bad as that was a strait up brawl.

As the program showed, the Overland campaign was one prong of the overall Northern campaign vs the South, Grant occupied the Army of Northern Virginia while other Northern armies waged war in other areas of the South, specifically Sherman vs Hood in the Atlanta campaign.

You can't fight a war on two fronts, time and time again this is proven to be true.

 

[Go for Broke]

I learned this important lesson from the show: Grant tells his general in the Wilderness to keep attacking. His general replies, But my men are exhausted. Grants says, if we're exhausted, so are the enemy. Attack.
We'll get through this pandemic. Keep at it.

 

[Warrior]

I learned this important lesson from the show: Grant tells his general in the Wilderness to keep attacking. His general replies, But my men are exhausted. Grants says, if we're exhausted, so are the enemy. Attack.
We'll get through this pandemic. Keep at it.

That was Meade, he was afraid of his own shadow, was the commander of the Army of the Potomac for one battle, but it turned out to be the one that decided the war.

Loved it during the surrender meeting when Grant said to Lee "Tell the men in your other armies to lay down their arms" and Lee replied "They are not my armies, it's up to my president" to which Grant replied "There's only one president now"...……….

Classic.

 

[Go for Broke]

While president, Grant had to reconstruct the south, which included stopping the KKK from killing blacks and promoting their welfare. However, the north got tired of the reconstruction of the south and under political pressure, Grant had to stop the reconstruction. This show suggested that the stopping of reconstruction of the south created the racial discrimination we still have today.

 

[jazzeum]

While president, Grant had to reconstruct the south, which included stopping the KKK from killing blacks and promoting their welfare. However, the north got tired of the reconstruction of the south and under political pressure, Grant had to stop the reconstruction. This show suggested that the stopping of reconstruction of the south created the racial discrimination we still have today.

That’s not exactly true. The presidential election of 1876 between Rutherford B. Hayes (R) and Samuel Tilden (D) was thrown into the House of Representatives and the Southern states told Hayes that if he wanted their support, he’d have to agree to remove the Federal troops from the South. He agreed, the troops were withdrawn, the Southern Democrats (Republicans being anathema in the South until the 1960s) managed to reimpose their tule and the rights that African Americans had won were rolled back and the era of Redeemer rule began (“redeem” the South from Reconstruction) .

 

[Go for Broke]

That’s not exactly true. The presidential election of 1876 between Rutherford B. Hayes (R) and Samuel Tilden (D) was thrown into the House of Representatives and the Southern states told Hayes that if he wanted their support, he’d have to agree to remove the Federal troops from the South. He agreed, the troops were withdrawn, the Southern Democrats (Republicans being anathema in the South until the 1960s) managed to reimpose their tule and the rights that African Americans had won were rolled back and the era of Redeemer rule began (“redeem” the South from Reconstruction) .

Yes, politics is not my forte. Grant also tired of politics. He grew rich from his son's investment company and lost it all when his son's partner stole all the money. Mark Twain helped publish Grant's memoirs when Grant was dying of throat cancer. Grant finished the book, then died 3-days later. Grant's book provided his widow with 1/2-million dollars.
We should all learn from such character, fortitude, integrity, leadership and discipline. That's why history is so important.

 

[jazzeum]

Yes, politics is not my forte. Grant also tired of politics. He grew rich from his son's investment company and lost it all when his son's partner stole all the money. Mark Twain helped publish Grant's memoirs when Grant was dying of throat cancer. Grant finished the book, then died 3-days later. Grant's book provided his widow with 1/2-million dollars.
We should all learn from such character, fortitude, integrity, leadership and discipline. That's why history is so important.

Grant’s reputation, despite the scandals that occurred during his administration, has improved over time. He was once considered one of the worst presidents, ranking in the bottom of the list, but over time his reputation has improved so that he’s ranked around number 20.