barneywomble
Corporal
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2012
- Messages
- 522
Hello... ok so I have narrowed my search down to either the 1st Armoured Infantry Company or the 1st Armoured Infantry Platoon... Any advice greatly appreciated.... ^&grin
cheers
Marc
The Top symbol is is indeed the 14th Panzer Division and the model is from Summer 1941 to February 1943. The white symbol looks a bit made up. The AFVs were not typically in armoured recon regiments because they were in short supply and too valuable for transporting Panzer Grenadiers. Germany had lots of AFVs designed specifically for recon. The 14th Panzer Division included the 36th Panzer Regiment and the 14th Schutzen Brigade. The Brigade consisted of the 103rd Schutzen Regiment and the 108th Schutzen Regiment. Each Regiment consisted of two Battalions. Each Battalion had 5 or sometimes 6 Companies. The Companies were numbered 1 - 10 (or 1 - 11). The white symbol is probably supposed to represent the 1st company of armoured infantry of the 103rd or 108th Schutzen Regiments.
Hope this helps
Terry
Hi Terry, thanks for the info. I did find the symbol in fact I found two... both almost identical except one had a thicker line than the other hence the difference between a platoon or a company... I shall keep looking. I realize these are models but.... they are supposed to be historical models so I thought I would do some research on their markings.... a learning exercise (not rivet counting)
cheers
Marc
Hi Terry, thanks for the info. I did find the symbol in fact I found two... both almost identical except one had a thicker line than the other hence the difference between a platoon or a company... I shall keep looking. I realize these are models but.... they are supposed to be historical models so I thought I would do some research on their markings.... a learning exercise (not rivet counting)
cheers
Marc
You are welcome Marc. I also enjoy researching the markings on AFVs. When this model first came out, I thought it odd that an SdKfz 251 would have kill marks. I suspected Andy had just made them up. So I checked the Lexikon Der Wehrmacht for the history of the 14th Panzer Division and with that info, I tracked down a photo of the actual vehicle. It has the yellow symbol in the rear corner and the exact same kill marks on the side. The white designation symbol under the yellow Division mark is a bit different from the one on the model. A flag has been added. The thick left side line on the symbol to differentiate a platoon vs a company is shown on paper, but often not painted on the vehicle - just the thin line. Platoons didn't usually have markings like that on a vehicle. It's a designation for a company.
The reason I know the vehicle was from Summer 1941 - February 1943 is because it is an Ausf. C used from the beginning of Barbarossa but after it had seen combat - hence the kill marks. The unit was wiped out at Stalingrad by Feb. 1943 so this vehicle couldn't have survived past then and was probably destroyed earlier.
Terry
Anyone ask K&C what they intended it to be? Is there a description of the vehicle's unit in the packaging?
Prost!
Brad
Thats cracker info Terry :salute:: Thanks heaps. I have quite a few books but it gets a bit confusing looking for the same symbol as is on the models. I am still having huge difficulty with the FOB038 - Stug III Ausf. B (Battle of France). I cannot find the "red skull" or the white "S" and the divisional markings are similar to some I have found but not exactly...
cheers
Marc
View attachment 146277
I have that model too and have researched it in detail. I have to go out, but will post in a few hours.
Terry
You are welcome Marc. I also enjoy researching the markings on AFVs. When this model first came out, I thought it odd that an SdKfz 251 would have kill marks. I suspected Andy had just made them up. So I checked the Lexikon Der Wehrmacht for the history of the 14th Panzer Division and with that info, I tracked down a photo of the actual vehicle. It has the yellow symbol in the rear corner and the exact same kill marks on the side. The white designation symbol under the yellow Division mark is a bit different from the one on the model. A flag has been added. The thick left side line on the symbol to differentiate a platoon vs a company is shown on paper, but often not painted on the vehicle - just the thin line. Platoons didn't usually have markings like that on a vehicle. It's a designation for a company.
The reason I know the vehicle was from Summer 1941 - February 1943 is because it is an Ausf. C used from the beginning of Barbarossa but after it had seen combat - hence the kill marks. The unit was wiped out at Stalingrad by Feb. 1943 so this vehicle couldn't have survived past then and was probably destroyed earlier.
Terry
To add on to Terry, it is indeed a valid symbol. The circle above the box means partially wheeled (or you could read partially halftracked).
In the panzer recon battalion OOB, this symbol (the half track recon company) is found, I'll have to scan later.
Terry, chew on this...
Is it recon or panzer grenadier?
I don't have the OOB for 14 PD, but do have the 16PD, and most of the organizations in there at the HQ level have the wiggly recon line.