Hess's Flight To Scotland Had Hitler's Blessing (1 Viewer)

[UKReb]

Interesting article in Der Spiegel magazine this week-end states that according to new information Hitler backed the flight of Hess to Scotland to secure either peace or a neutralisation of England.

A notebook supposedly written by Hess's aide Major Karlheinz Pintsch has been discovered in a Russian archive that indicates that Hitler was fully aware of Hess's mission to contact the Duke of Hamilton to set-up talks with Churchill.

Pintsch was captured by the Russians in 1945 and spent years undergoing torture and interrogation at their hands. The article states that when Pintsch went to tell Hitler that the mission had failed he neither ranted or raved but calmly said "At this particular moment in the war it would always have been a hazardous escapade".

Guys this version is hardly new- but as far as I'm aware- if these documents/notes get authenticated this will be the first hard evidence to support this theory. This is personally interesting for me because years ago a good friend of my father relayed part of a story to him about this particular incident. In 1941 the old man's chum was a sergeant in 3 Battalion Home Guard stationed in Scotland who were the first to arrest Hess and according to him two of their officers- using a translator- interrogated Hess for some considerable time before the security services got there. One of these officers told this sergeant that if what he had heard ever got out it would "rock the realm" that's all he said.

My take on this whole episode in the war (which doesn't amount to a hill of beans) is that it has always struck me as being completely illogical that Hess acted alone.

Leaving the conspiracy theories to one side:-Salient points to consider:

1. Hess was a fanatical Nazi and a complete Hitler sycophant. (Would he have done this without his master's knowledge?)

2. This mission was five/six weeks before the Nazi invasion of Russia-The Luftwaffe had failed to control the skies over Britain-War on two fronts without at least approaching Britain by a top Nazi to arrange a neutrality agreement?).

3. If it fails they could always state Hess was insane (that was exactly the statements post flight from Hitler and Churchill)

3. Pintsch (Hess's loyal aide) was immediately arrested by the Gestapo and imprisoned in solitary confinement until being sent to the Russian Front in 1944. Why? A dangerous witness or a conspirator who knew too much? If so why not just execute him?

Fascinating stuff that I have discussed endlessly with my WWII buff mates and no doubt will continue to do so.

Reb

 

[Rob]

Fascinating stuff indeed Bob. Hard to imagine he did do this without anyone else knowing and this new evidence seems to underline this.I do hope this evidence is verified. I also can quite see how Hitler may have wanted a last effort of peace with Britain following his defeat in the Battle of Britain and his ill advised foray into Russia. Whatever his motives Hess paid a big price for his mission, as so it seems did his aide. Years of torture at the hands of the Russians, that must have been somewhat tedious to put it mildly. Its also interesting re the supposed and yet unproved links to the Royal Family in this whole affair, it still retains a murky air about it doesn't it.

The Imperial War museum London has the engine and fuselage section of the ME110 Hess crash landed in Scotland on his ill fated trip.

Rob

 

[Combat]

Interesting, but baseless. Hitler would never have sent a top member into that situation under those circumstances. Too risky politically. In addition, if that was the plan, then Hitler wouldn't have declared him insane from the get go. Rather, he would have waited to see if it succeeded. I do think there is more to this than we know, but on the British end. Hess may have had a legitimate contact or been fooled by Brit intelligence into undertaking this effort. I recall that many of the papers on Hess are due to be released soon. But it doesn't sound like a Hitler plan. Hess was a party fanatic whose role had been marginalized by the war. This was his attempt to make an impact.

 

[UKReb]

Yeah! You raise very valid points-maybe the Der Spiegel article is just a pre-cursor for someone's book soon to be published-a harbinger for a different slant on the incident.

What is known is that it was definitely a very popular after dinner discussion for London society for years after the war and I also agree that there is a lot more to be dis-closed about the whole affair.

I believe the current release date for these particular files is mooted for 2017 but five will get you ten that date will be pushed out further if there is the slightest connection with any of our lorded dignitaries. The Brit powers are pretty slick for slapping "D" notices on such matters as per the Hitler/Ribbentrop/Windsor's connection and photos of a certain royal princess rollicking with a British thug turned actor on the island of Mustique.

Reb

 

[jazzeum]

Bob,

If the date for releasing documents is not to be 2017 and later because of concerns for some of the "lorded dignitaries," since most of these are hereditary titles, will this be ever released. Are positions or specific persons being protected?

 

[Mitch]

I think I would go down the road of the thinking that Hess, marginalised in the party as war progressed thought a coup such as negotiating the english out of the war would have made hip top dog in the party. too many bizzarre things about this mission to think Hitler was invloved at any level.

Incites interest in new books about to be released than hold any validity. rather like the discussion about the bismarck recently its all new but not quite so.
Mitch

 

[UKReb]

Bob,

If the date for releasing documents is not to be 2017 and later because of concerns for some of the "lorded dignitaries," since most of these are hereditary titles, will this be ever released. Are positions or specific persons being protected?

Good question Brad but you of all people should know money buys the best barristers to undertake executing such injunctions :wink2: (Luckily for me we have one who is a family friend :smile2

No the point I was trying to make-although I must state not so prevelant today-is if the Royal family had had any scurrilous association with the Nazis it would have been buried for the sake of the nation. I must quickly add that I'm sure that George VI most definitely did not have any connection with Hess's flight to Scotland. Just a few years before he was beside himself when he was told that his brother David the former Edward VIII had described Hitler as a "thoroughly decent chap" after he visited him in Germany. Exit the Duke and Duchess of Windsor out of Europe to the Bahamas until wars end.

However, if Hess's English contact who had been a close friend of the former king had been suggested to the Nazis by the Duke of Windsor- and I'm not saying he was-I doubt very much whether we would see that disclosed in 2017-it would definitely be redacted.

Bob

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I think I would go down the road of the thinking that Hess, marginalised in the party as war progressed thought a coup such as negotiating the english out of the war would have made hip top dog in the party. too many bizzarre things about this mission to think Hitler was invloved at any level.

Incites interest in new books about to be released than hold any validity. rather like the discussion about the bismarck recently its all new but not quite so.
Mitch

From all accounts of what I have seen, viewed, or heard on this subject Hess acted on his own in this flight which totally enraged Hitler. There is also mention of Hess starting to become mentally unstable during the time of his flight. In my opinion he saw the actual hell that he was so involved in and wanted out fast.

 

[theBaron]

I'm suspicious of any documents Der Spiegel might put forward, ever since the Hitler diaries.

I've always found the explanation that Hess was an overgrown adolescent with an overly romantic view of himself and his position in the Party and the state, to be sufficient to explain why he did it. If the Germans had really wanted to contact the British, they could have done it much more easily through the existing diplomatic channels offered by neutral countries, especially Switzerland and Sweden, before sending a high-level non-diplomat like Hess. And I think Ribbentrop would have been likely to want to direct the effort himself.

Interesting info to consider, though.

Prost!
Brad

 

[jazzeum]

Good question Brad but you of all people should know money buys the best barristers to undertake executing such injunctions :wink2: (Luckily for me we have one who is a family friend :smile2

No the point I was trying to make-although I must state not so prevelant today-is if the Royal family had had any scurrilous association with the Nazis it would have been buried for the sake of the nation. I must quickly add that I'm sure that George VI most definitely did not have any connection with Hess's flight to Scotland. Just a few years before he was beside himself when he was told that his brother David the former Edward VIII had described Hitler as a "thoroughly decent chap" after he visited him in Germany. Exit the Duke and Duchess of Windsor out of Europe to the Bahamas until wars end.

However, if Hess's English contact who had been a close friend of the former king had been suggested to the Nazis by the Duke of Windsor- and I'm not saying he was-I doubt very much whether we would see that disclosed in 2017-it would definitely be redacted.

Bob

Bob,

If there were some contact with the Royal Family, for the sake of the nation and the monarchy, that should probably be better left buried, for good.

 

[Combat]

There was an interesting show on this recently. Noted rumors of a landing field in the area Hess parachuted into. Some possibility he was supposed to land there but couldn't find it at night. He asked to meet with the Duke of Hamilton. The only question is whether Hess was entirely delusional or had some actual contact in England. Either way it was a desperate move.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

There was an interesting show on this recently. Noted rumors of a landing field in the area Hess parachuted into. Some possibility he was supposed to land there but couldn't find it at night. He asked to meet with the Duke of Hamilton. The only question is whether Hess was entirely delusional or had some actual contact in England. Either way it was a desperate move.

Yes, Crazy people do crazy things {eek3}