Hiitler's heroism in Great War "exaggerated" according to a new book (2 Viewers)

[breslau]

An interesting article questioning Hitler's Great War service. A review of a book by Thomas Weber titled Hitler's First War.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/hitlers-heroism-in-great-war-exaggerated-2239781.html

 

[jazzeum]

Nothing is ever as it seems, is it?

 

[IXEC]

This has been brought up before on this forum . . . See the web sight below, as some experts really take Mr. Thomas Weber's book apart. . . and expose him as a revisionest historian. .

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=170318

 

[theBaron]

I can concede about the embellishments, and the propaganda, but the fact remains that the Iron Cross, first class was a relatively rare award for enlisted men. The fact that many Meldereiter won the award doesn't mean that the Germans were handing them out, but rather, it speaks to the hazards of that particular duty.

 

[Rob]

Very interesting indeed, wouldn't put anything past this specimen of vermin so its no surprise, his claim of being the only survivor of his platoon is of interest, when records appear to show thirteen of his comrades were killed.

And to think that some years ago the story surfaced about the Tommy who had the chance to put a bayonet through him but spared him because he was wounded, just think of the way the world could have been different if he'd just pig stuck the man through the throat.

Rob

 

[breslau]

And to think that some years ago the story surfaced about the Tommy who had the chance to put a bayonet through him but spared him because he was wounded, just think of the way the world could have been different if he'd just pig stuck the man through the throat. Rob

Rob - couldn't agree more. No matter how badly Germany was "hurting" in the late 1920s and early 1930s - the world and Germany would have been better off if he had died in WWI.

And from my own family perspective, Germany, especially her land and people east of the Oder-Neisse, would not have suffered nor would they have paid the appalling price for his war. Hitler ultimately deceived and betrayed the Germans. (My remarks in no way attempt to excuse the appalling deeds and crimes committed by Germany under the Nazis)

 

[Rob]

Rob - couldn't agree more. No matter how badly Germany was "hurting" in the late 1920s and early 1930s - the world and Germany would have been better off if he had died in WWI.

And from my own family perspective, Germany, especially her land and people east of the Oder-Neisse, would not have suffered nor would they have paid the appalling price for his war. Hitler ultimately deceived and betrayed the Germans. (My remarks in no way attempt to excuse the appalling deeds and crimes committed by Germany under the Nazis)

Absolutely, even if we forget all the other countries who suffered during the War, the good people of Germany and there were many, would not have seen the ruination of their country at the hands of Hitler and his odious side kicks.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

I thought the book was rather poor and an easily seen attempt at trying to glorify the author for finding something new which, did not exist.

Another what if rises from this say Hitler had died we may still have had conflict as many germans at that time were exceptionally aggrieved at the circumstances their country was in for many reasons. There were many Hitlers at that time. I think Hitler rode the wave of disharmony to its maximum he did not create it
Mitch

 

[Rob]

I thought the book was rather poor and an easily seen attempt at trying to glorify the author for finding something new which, did not exist.

Another what if rises from this say Hitler had died we may still have had conflict as many germans at that time were exceptionally aggrieved at the circumstances their country was in for many reasons. There were many Hitlers at that time. I think Hitler rode the wave of disharmony to its maximum he did not create it
Mitch

Disharmony no doubt about, ill feeling of course, but that deep hatred of Jewish people to the point of wishing all of them dead?. I'm thinking Hitler,Himmler,Heydrich and one or two other of the bacteria that festered upon Hitler. Also I'm not sure how much your average German wanted to invade Russia or even fight Britain.
Rob

 

[theBaron]

It's very possible that there would have been some kind of authoritarian government in Germany, had Hitler not survived. There had already been one, during the war, and the Weimar Constitution had the glaring flaw of Article 48, allowing the Reichspraesident to rule by decree in emergency. That article was invoked something like 120 times in the 16 years of the Republic, which was far more often than its framers expected. And there may very well have been a racist and statis movement, especially given the threat from the Communists. But it probably wouldn't have had the same character as the Nazi party eventually had, because a driving force in that development was Hitler's personality. There were other strong personalities, in the early days and immediately after the Machtergeifung, the Strasser brothers, for example, who were every bit as dynamic and had the same or better organizational and motivational skills as Hitler. They weren't as ruthless as he, and were outmanuvered, along with Roehm. Assuming Hitler died in WWI, and they all survived, it's a good bet that they would have created the mass movement as they wanted it to be, but it's also a likelihood that they would have wound up remaining a phenomenon within Germany and not engaging in foreign adventures, at least not in Europe. I think they would have ended up like the other authoritarian and totalitarian governments in Europe at the time; that was the most common political trend (viz Franco's Spain, Italy, Poland, Hungary, Rumania, Greece, Austria).

Prost!
Brad

 

[Mitch]

Rob..

Anti semitism was rife not just in germany but elsewhere at the time so, its likely that they would have still been persecuted and the real solution to the jewish question did not occur until well into the war. removing them from german life was very popular at this point rather more than some would like us to believe. No doubting Hitler was the crux of the party but, its likely in the what if's scenario we are discussing that there was probably many individuals with as much hatred of the jews and, the severe restrictions placed upon germany by the allies after WWI.
Mitch

Disharmony no doubt about, ill feeling of course, but that deep hatred of Jewish people to the point of wishing all of them dead?. I'm thinking Hitler,Himmler,Heydrich and one or two other of the bacteria that festered upon Hitler. Also I'm not sure how much your average German wanted to invade Russia or even fight Britain.
Rob

 

[jazzeum]

I would recommend reading Richard Evans' The Coming of the Third Reich. Gives some historical background on anti semitism lurking in German society. Very good book about his rise to power and how he eliminated all competition once he was Chancellor. Fascinating reading on how he did so.

 

[Rob]

Rob..

Anti semitism was rife not just in germany but elsewhere at the time so, its likely that they would have still been persecuted and the real solution to the jewish question did not occur until well into the war. removing them from german life was very popular at this point rather more than some would like us to believe. No doubting Hitler was the crux of the party but, its likely in the what if's scenario we are discussing that there was probably many individuals with as much hatred of the jews and, the severe restrictions placed upon germany by the allies after WWI.
Mitch

Disharmony no doubt about, ill feeling of course, but that deep hatred of Jewish people to the point of wishing all of them dead?. I'm thinking Hitler,Himmler,Heydrich and one or two other of the bacteria that festered upon Hitler. Also I'm not sure how much your average German wanted to invade Russia or even fight Britain.
Rob

The doubt is whether anyone else but that sicko and his friends would have actually made the step to setting up the system of eliminating a whole race of people, hatred is one thing, the actual physical act of attempting to kill them all quite another. I think Hitler and his henchmen remain 100% responsible for this.

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

There were many small right wing groups trying to make a name for themselves in the early 20s. They all or many had anti semitic and anti communist leanings. It's really hard to say what things would have looked like had the Nazis not emerged. The disaffected masses would have still needed an outlet.

It's one of those questions that just can't be answered. The prejudices towards eastern peoples were there. The Nazis were quite effective in bringing them to the surface. Eastern Europe, particularly the Pale of Settlement, was a cauldron waiting to explode. The Germans helped light the spark.

 

[Napoleon1er]

I think it is simply a matter of the obvious that at least some of Hitler's heroism was exaggerated, but it is probable that he also did some brave things too. As I always say,:
One thing we can all agree on is that Hitler was a 10000000000000% horrible person, and that nothing excuses what he and his buds did!

As to if things would have been different, my Jewish grandfather, who came over from Russia in WWII, and fought in our air force always said about 'ifs', "If my mother had a ____ she'd be my father!"

-Sandor:salute::

 

[Mitch]

the what if's are a interesting point but, as communism has been raised there was very little difference between Hitler and Stalin IMO in the manner they subjugated their and other countries populations. Stalin was no friend of the jew or the other groups that Hitler persecuted.

Not a good time in european history to be a so called minority group or pole, bulgarian rumanian and the list goes on
Mitch

 

[Combat]

I thought the book was rather poor and an easily seen attempt at trying to glorify the author for finding something new which, did not exist.


Mitch

I tend to agree, but in fairness to the author I think it's partially the reviewers who focus attacks Hitler's on war record. In the book, there is not a lot of specific information available about Hitler's own experiences. Rather, the focus is on the typical German soldier's war experience and then the author tries to draw comparisons from that to what is know about Hitler. Here's a great example - many reviews indicate that German soldiers labeled Hitler a "rear area pig." In fact, the book notes that frontline soldiers held anyone in contempt who was not on the line. That's understandable from their viewpoint, but the "rear area pig" quote is not directed specifically at Hitler as they would lead you to believe. But to anyone who was not on the line with them. His function as a messenger is generally accepted as a dangerous one that he performed well.

 

[Mitch]

I agree that there has been much hype from the reviewers about what this book actually said or, did not say which, probably, did the sales no harm at all. But, overall a poor book
Mitch

I tend to agree, but in fairness to the author I think it's partially the reviewers who focus attacks Hitler's on war record. In the book, there is not a lot of specific information available about Hitler's own experiences. Rather, the focus is on the typical German soldier's war experience and then the author tries to draw comparisons from that to what is know about Hitler. Here's a great example - many reviews indicate that German soldiers labeled Hitler a "rear area pig." In fact, the book notes that frontline soldiers held anyone in contempt who was not on the line. That's understandable from their viewpoint, but the "rear area pig" quote is not directed specifically at Hitler as they would lead you to believe. But to anyone who was not on the line with them. His function as a messenger is generally accepted as a dangerous one that he performed well.

 

[Scott]

Too bad the guy didn't get into art school.

 

[Napoleon1er]

Too bad the guy didn't get into art school.

Amen!