Historic Decisions (1 Viewer)

[Rob]

Is anyone else fascinated by the outcome of History on decisions made in the heat of battle?.You could call it the 'what if 'position.If Lee hadn't crossed the wheatfield,If Ney hadn't sent unsupported cavalry against the British squares,if Custer hadn't split his forces,if Goering hadn't switched to bombing London.All these and many more shaped our military history and the history of the world.I understand Napoleon spent the rest of his life going over the battle of Waterloo in his head wondering what if?.Its just another thing that makes military History so gripping.

Rob

 

[REVWARBUFF]

Wow Rob, you got a pretty heavy question here. A short answer is "yes" I have pondered a lot of "what-if's" relative to history and to many other things in life, both personally and universally. In America, we sport fans, especially baseball fans, like to get caught up in the, "if only this" or "what if that". There are volumes we all could write when it comes to history's "what if's". Since no one can give an exhaustive list, I'll try to throw a few out there, like you did.

What if Sam Adams was born in a different time? He is known as the father of the American Revolution.

What if US Naval intelligence didn't properly decifer the Japanese code that "AF" was Midway Island? The turning point in the Pacific theater in WW2.

What if Churchill never got elected as Prime Minister when he did? How different would the British resolve had been without his leadership during the Battle of Britain?

What if England physically entered the ACW and aided the Confederates? How different would America be today?

There are so many scenarios that I could go on all day if I had the time. But I must say that you have a good question and it would be interesting to see what the other forum members can put out there. I'm sure the rest of us can provide some really good thought provoking "what-if's".

Revwarbuff

 

[Shiloh]

What if Hitler had waited to invade Russia?
What if Great Britain had allowed America representation?
What if Abraham Lincoln lost in 1864?
What if Stonewall hadn't got killed?
What if you sent Shiloh all your ACW figures?
Had to try and slip one in there somewhere.

 

[kilted vampire]

Boy if Jackson had not been killed????????????????????????????????????

GETTYSBURG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a difference he would have made.

 

[fishead19690]

Great idea for a thread!!! And waterloo is one battle that is totaly full of what ifs!
What if Ney had pressed the attack at Quatre Bras at the beginning of the battle while the cross roads was lightly defended and up for the taking!

What if napoleon had followed up on the beaten prussains at Ligny and completed the victory!

What if a whole division of french troops had not spent the day marching back and forth between the battle of ligny and quatre bras on mixed up orders? they could have made a big difference in either battle!

What if The battle of waterloo was started earlier and not postponded for the field to dry for the artillary, which I think would have won the battle because the prussains would not have arrived in time and the field did not dry anyway!

What if napoleon had tried to out flank wellingtons position going around his right flank and around hougomont!

What if guns were brought in to take out the the walls of hougomont?

What if blucher was not rescued from under his downwd horse as his generals and staff wanted to retreat on there lines of comunication and not go to the aid of wellington!

What if napoleon had chosen different marshalls for the battle???? Davout, murat,???

What if the cavalry charges were supported by artillary and infantry and they had spiked the british guns while they were right there at the guns and did nothing to disable them and the british could use them to attack the cavalry retreats???

What if grochy had followed the sound of the guns and came to waterloo with his corps and turned the tide?

What if napoleon had won waterloo? How would he do againt the large Russain and Austrain armies on there way???

So many What Ifs!!! You could go on all day. The russain campaign is the other big what if!!!

 

[DMNamiot]

Hey Vampire it should have said what if Jackson hadnt been killed by his own men...

This is an interesting idea for a thread.

Dave

 

[Shiloh]

Hey Vampire it should have said what if Jackson hadnt been killed by his own men...

This is an interesting idea for a thread.

Dave

Friendly fire really isn't, if it's falling on you.

 

[sceic2]

Now this could get interesting. If anyone has been following the development of "String Theory" this thread would strike home.

Einstein tried, but failed, to derive a theory of everything - gravity, energy, light, mass, etc. His E=(mc) squared (this program will not allow super script) is the theory that helped to develop nuclear power. It does not allow for gravity and therefore cannot be used as the theory that describes the universe (the Theory of Everything).

In String Theory, there are currently three accepted versions. All three versions describe matter as infinitely small vibrating strings of energy. Way smaller than atoms or any known subatomic particle. The most acceptable of the three String Theories allows for "11 other dimensions" and an infinite number of parallel universes. We live in one universe and can experience 4 dimensions (length, width, depth, time). Any attempt on my part to describe the other 7 dimensions would be as futile as the scientists who have attempted to explain them in their theories. They can't, but they need them for the math to work, and if you accept that the universe is mathematically balanced, they must exist.

My point is that if String Theory is correct, in alternative universes Grant lost. Grant was killed. Grant never joined the Army. Grant became dictator for life. Lee was a horse trader, Lincoln was a slave, and on and on and on. So, in some parallel universe, Lee won and I can afford to collect all the toy soldiers I want, and I want them all.

 

[sceic2]

This is my second comment on the way this tread is developing and probably the more pertinent.

All of these “what ifs”; what if Grant did this; and, what if Lee did that. If a frog had wings it wouldn’t bump its as% on the lily pad when it jumps off. No one comment using the “what if” premise can ever be proven or unproven. It’s all just an exercise in futility

 

[maddadicus]

What if Reno had continued his unsupported charge into the indian village? Would anybody care if it was Reno's last stand...? Michael

 

[OzDigger]

What if Eisenhower had allowed Operation Market-Garden to proceed earlier as Montgomery planned?

Answer - it wouldn't have been a bridge to far

 

[Rob]

What if England had sent a half decent cricket team to Australia!

Seriously though i do love this stuff and i know nothing can ever be proved,but it is fun.two of them that interest me most are;

What if that Spitfire hadn't found Rommel in his car?.

What If Haig had allowed his men to charge not walk on the first day of the somme. ?

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

And what if Spezio didn't hit ball to right field in Game 3 of the LCS? The Mets would be champs but they're not.

What if this, what if that, you can go and on and on and on and on......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[maddadicus]

What if the Red Sox had not sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees..........AW FORGET IT, THE RED SOX STILL WOULD HAVE MESSED IT UP.... Michael

 

[panda1gen]

Headache......

 

[Czech Legion]

The Trent Affair......yes you read correctly.

On November 8, 1861, the USS Jacinto, flouting international laws, stopped the British mail packet the Trent sailing from Havana to England and arrested two Confederate diplomats and their secretaries who were on a diplomatic mission to England. They were imprisoned in Boston. The British government demanded their release.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/cw/17612.htm

Lord Palmerston, Britain’s cantankerous Prime Minister, commenced an emergency cabinet meeting by throwing his hat on the table and declaring, “I don’t know whether you are going to stand this, but I’ll be ****ed if I do.” The British Government composed an ultimatum that demanded an apology and the return of the Confederate diplomats.

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/confederation/023001-2011-e.html

The British upon hearing of the 'incident' began filling ships with weapons (80,000 enfields on one transport by one report) and 14,000 troops began the long trek to montreal via Halifax. By 1870, 30,000 troops were guarding the U.S. /Canada border from U.S. attacks.

According to the 'Illustrated London News'....

The (Union) House of Representatives has deliberately offered a vote of thanks to the pirate Wilks; and though it is technically true that this is not precisely the same thing as a vote of our House of Commons, it is equally true, and more to the purpose, that the House of Representatives expresses the sentiments of those who, to the disgrace of the higher classes in the States, are permitted to engross political power.

It was tough to disavow this incident with such popular support in the North. But without Lincoln's quick release of the two Confederate diplomats, this would have been one of those TURNING POINTS in the Civil War.....transcending individual officers and individual campaigns, battles, terrain and such things that would have made absolutely no difference with the Union involved in a two front war with England and with the South.

 

[OzDigger]

Very interesting I noted the 'Trent Affair' recently while doing some online research for another thread. It made me wonder just how widely known these type of historical incidents are in the US.

Another relevant historical incident being the Cuban Missile Crisis. It's well known that the Russians removed their missiles from Cuba after Kennedy made some threats. But Russia didn't do it until the US agreed to remove their missiles from Turkey.