Historical accuracy (1 Viewer)

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ypres1

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May 18, 2007
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This is my first post on this forum. I have however, been reading the threads for the past year and I feel that it is now time to comment. First a little background - I have been collecting original militaria ( ACW thru WW2)for over 30 years and have a extensive reference library. I enjoy collecting Gloss figures and 'Dime Stores' for the charm and history and I do purchase matte figures occasionaly when I see something that grabs me. The reason for my post is this - I read all of these posts about how K&C and others are historically accurate and it makes me nuts. For example, the new WW1 K&C figures are beautifully scuplted and painted but the enlisted men (all of whom, including Hitler, have corporal litzen - no other ranks?) are wearing dark gray pants which were not available in 1914! And Hitler was a corporal when the war started? Nope, not until 1915. Overly bright colors are used on most toy soldiers- that's okay - just not accurate. Take a look at the historical miniatures by artists like Bill Horan and Raul Garcia Latorre to see real uniform colors and accuracy. Not a real fair comparson since they create one-of-a-kind figures - but they are correct. My point being is that toy soldiers are just that, and to claim that these toys feature accurate representations of actual uniform colors, weapon sizes, and reality, is just silly. I think that loving your hobby is great - but the fanaticism that oozes thru some posts here is downright creepy. I think that the level of detail on the new matt figures is great for mass produced toys - let's enjoy them as such and stop with the crazy talk. Sorry about the rant but this stuff has been bugging me since I discovered this site.
 
Well welcome!.Original idea to P*** off people with your first post:D!.The point is this.Whether things are accurate or not is not the only issue here.This is a forum for all sorts of Toy soldiers.But there is a very strong fan base here for the product of King and Country amongst others.I think if you find the enthusiastic postings of fans of certain companies 'Creepy' the best thing to do is avoid those threads.

Hope you have a great time here on the forum,i have found it a great place to learn, share my hobby and have a real laugh too. Enjoy Ypres1!:)

Rob
 
ypres1 said:
This is my first post on this forum. I have however, been reading the threads for the past year and I feel that it is now time to comment. First a little background - I have been collecting original militaria ( ACW thru WW2)for over 30 years and have a extensive reference library. I enjoy collecting Gloss figures and 'Dime Stores' for the charm and history and I do purchase matte figures occasionaly when I see something that grabs me. The reason for my post is this - I read all of these posts about how K&C and others are historically accurate and it makes me nuts. For example, the new WW1 K&C figures are beautifully scuplted and painted but the enlisted men (all of whom, including Hitler, have corporal litzen - no other ranks?) are wearing dark gray pants which were not available in 1914! And Hitler was a corporal when the war started? Nope, not until 1915. Overly bright colors are used on most toy soldiers- that's okay - just not accurate. Take a look at the historical miniatures by artists like Bill Horan and Raul Garcia Latorre to see real uniform colors and accuracy. Not a real fair comparson since they create one-of-a-kind figures - but they are correct. My point being is that toy soldiers are just that, and to claim that these toys feature accurate representations of actual uniform colors, weapon sizes, and reality, is just silly. I think that loving your hobby is great - but the fanaticism that oozes thru some posts here is downright creepy. I think that the level of detail on the new matt figures is great for mass produced toys - let's enjoy them as such and stop with the crazy talk. Sorry about the rant but this stuff has been bugging me since I discovered this site.
Click to expand...

Welcome to Treefrog !

You have a right to your opinion as well as everyone else. You will find the collectors here are free spirits and having fun. We love our King and Country here - that is for sure - so if positive jumping up and down about King and Country bothers you? Then stay away from that thread - we make no apologies think the way we do on King and Country. :D

There are plenty of other threads to entertain yourself with and enjoy.

Hopefully you can be a positive addition to this forum and have fun.

Ron
 
Thanks for the welcome! I sure was not looking to p** anyone off - just pointing out some historical inaccuracies that should be mentioned. Sorry - I will also point out when things are 'spot-on'. I really do like this stuff.
 
You'll have a great time here Ypres1,its a great place to chew the fat.:)

Rob
 
Ypres,

Welcome to the Forum. Rob and Ron are very enthusiastic about King and Country. However, this is a Forum dedicated to all areas of toy soldier collecting and all makes: Britains, Mignot, Imperial, other traditional toy soldiers, King and Country, Figarti and so forth.

We hope you find this a very helpful place and if there is anything Shannon or I can do, please do not hestitate to let us know.
 
I know what you mean about historical accuracy. I've had these figures for some time, but something just doesn't smack me as being right...

13b27524.jpg


I think it's the shade of the helmets, but can't be sure.
Enjoy the forum ypres 1. :)

Simon
 
Hi Ypres1,

Welcome to the Treefrog Forum! I am glad that, after a year of watching and reading the forum posts, you decided to join the discussions. While it is true there are many K&C fans here, it is also true that there is much room for a variety of opinions and preferences. I am pleased that you chose to express your opinion and I hope you will continue to participate in the discussions. I believe all forum members profit when they have access to a maximum of different points of view, even when those perspectives are the less popular ones. If everyone's opinion is the same, there is little room left for learning from each other. I, for one, appreciate your perspective and I thank you for offering it.

Again, welcome to the Treefrog Forum. Please visit frequently and post often!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat
 
ypres1 said:
This is my first post on this forum. I have however, been reading the threads for the past year and I feel that it is now time to comment. First a little background - I have been collecting original militaria ( ACW thru WW2)for over 30 years and have a extensive reference library. I enjoy collecting Gloss figures and 'Dime Stores' for the charm and history and I do purchase matte figures occasionaly when I see something that grabs me. The reason for my post is this - I read all of these posts about how K&C and others are historically accurate and it makes me nuts. For example, the new WW1 K&C figures are beautifully scuplted and painted but the enlisted men (all of whom, including Hitler, have corporal litzen - no other ranks?) are wearing dark gray pants which were not available in 1914! And Hitler was a corporal when the war started? Nope, not until 1915. Overly bright colors are used on most toy soldiers- that's okay - just not accurate. Take a look at the historical miniatures by artists like Bill Horan and Raul Garcia Latorre to see real uniform colors and accuracy. Not a real fair comparson since they create one-of-a-kind figures - but they are correct. My point being is that toy soldiers are just that, and to claim that these toys feature accurate representations of actual uniform colors, weapon sizes, and reality, is just silly. I think that loving your hobby is great - but the fanaticism that oozes thru some posts here is downright creepy. I think that the level of detail on the new matt figures is great for mass produced toys - let's enjoy them as such and stop with the crazy talk. Sorry about the rant but this stuff has been bugging me since I discovered this site.
Click to expand...
Ypres1,
Welcome to the Frog!
We don't get a lot of discussion about Dimestores here so hopefully with you on board we can get that topic started. We welcome discussion on all aspects of toy soldier collecting and look forward to your expertise in that area.
As far as King & Country's historical accuracy is concerned feel free to comment on both accuracies and inaccuracies on their or any manufacturer's products. At times K&C does take artistic license (see the battle-scarred flag of IWJ19 as an example) and this bothers some people and others don't care.
I for one am not an expert in military uniforms or equipment etc. and I learn a lot from my fellow board members when they take the time to share their militaria knowledge on the board.
If every post raved about how great every company, product and detail is this would be a very boring forum. As long as criticism is constructive and is given in a respectful manner rather than a flame, critique away.
Regards,
 
I am actually sitting here getting quite angry about this.I would just like to say this.Of course all points of view are equally valid.And everyone is entitled to say what they please good or bad about all companies K&C included.Now i apologise if my opening post was a little harsh,but i'd like to say this.This person in his opening post accused some of us(and i guess as an enthusiast of K&C I am one he's talking to)of being creepy.Now sorry folks but in my book thats downright bad manners.You don't address people in your opening remark by calling them creepy.I don't think i have ever said anywhere on here that people shouldn't speak up if they don't like something.Just because i like a product doesn't mean anyone else has to.And in the same breath that we can all say what we like i think we all have the right to be treated with respect,manners cost nothing.

Rob
 
Wraith said:
I know what you mean about historical accuracy. I've had these figures for some time, but something just doesn't smack me as being right...

13b27524.jpg


I think it's the shade of the helmets, but can't be sure.
Enjoy the forum ypres 1. :)

Simon
Click to expand...

This is creepy !:eek:

Jeff
 
I'm not sure I see what there is to get excited about. Ypres is giving you his point of view and he is entitled to that point of view.

We all need to calm down a little bit and welcome divergent views with a bit more openess and not take it as a personal affront.

This is not a K & C board but a board devoted to toy soldiers of all kinds and I don't think we need to jump down somebody's throat if their views differ from somebody else's.
 
My point is a point of view can be given with good grace and manners.

Rob
 
wadepat said:
Hi Ypres1,

Welcome to the Treefrog Forum! I am glad that, after a year of watching and reading the forum posts, you decided to join the discussions. While it is true there are many K&C fans here, it is also true that there is much room for a variety of opinions and preferences. I am pleased that you chose to express your opinion and I hope you will continue to participate in the discussions. I believe all forum members profit when they have access to a maximum of different points of view, even when those perspectives are the less popular ones. If everyone's opinion is the same, there is little room left for learning from each other. I, for one, appreciate your perspective and I thank you for offering it.

Again, welcome to the Treefrog Forum. Please visit frequently and post often!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat
Click to expand...

Pat

I kinda take offense to what you said - I would hope that you are not implying that I am shutting out anyones opinion - perhaps you should read my post again. Your tone is a little offensive in a underhand way.

Certainly, we accept everyones opinion - like I said - this is an open forum where everyone can partcipate and everyone can read what is said about posts and people.


Warmest Personal Regards,

Ron
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ypres1 said:
This is my first post on this forum. I have however, been reading the threads for the past year and I feel that it is now time to comment. First a little background - I have been collecting original militaria ( ACW thru WW2)for over 30 years and have a extensive reference library. I enjoy collecting Gloss figures and 'Dime Stores' for the charm and history and I do purchase matte figures occasionaly when I see something that grabs me. The reason for my post is this - I read all of these posts about how K&C and others are historically accurate and it makes me nuts. For example, the new WW1 K&C figures are beautifully scuplted and painted but the enlisted men (all of whom, including Hitler, have corporal litzen - no other ranks?) are wearing dark gray pants which were not available in 1914! And Hitler was a corporal when the war started? Nope, not until 1915. Overly bright colors are used on most toy soldiers- that's okay - just not accurate. Take a look at the historical miniatures by artists like Bill Horan and Raul Garcia Latorre to see real uniform colors and accuracy. Not a real fair comparson since they create one-of-a-kind figures - but they are correct. My point being is that toy soldiers are just that, and to claim that these toys feature accurate representations of actual uniform colors, weapon sizes, and reality, is just silly. I think that loving your hobby is great - but the fanaticism that oozes thru some posts here is downright creepy. I think that the level of detail on the new matt figures is great for mass produced toys - let's enjoy them as such and stop with the crazy talk. Sorry about the rant but this stuff has been bugging me since I discovered this site.
Click to expand...

Welcome aboard Ypres! By all means point out historical inaccuracies when you see them. I am a toy soldier collector, with an interest in history, but little knowledge as to the accuracy of uniforms, vehicles and weapons produced with Toy Soldiers. I like to know when there is a screw up. One of the gents on this forum, (I think Dave) is an expert on the Sherman tank, and has called Andy on several mistakes so far. I honestly enjoy the appearance of K&C and other figures, vehicles and aircraft, whether or not they are accurate, but I like to know when they aren't.

And don't worry about the p@ssing people off comments. We all are pretty opinionated on this forum, and, with the exception of Wadepat, tick each other off with posts pretty much daily.
 
Wraith said:
I know what you mean about historical accuracy. I've had these figures for some time, but something just doesn't smack me as being right...

13b27524.jpg


I think it's the shade of the helmets, but can't be sure.
Enjoy the forum ypres 1. :)

Simon
Click to expand...

Imagine the plane these guys jumped out of ,
a flying disco ball perhaps ?
 
THE COLOR OF ACCURACY: one aspect of the hobby

As an academic art historian I am concerned with accurate color in the uniforms of my military miniatures but after years of reading discussions on the topic, looking through photographs, viewing color swatches, color illustrations in uniform books, and seeing the uniiforms themselves, I've decided it is not a very exact science because of environmental conditions. I have been searching for years for the right paints to get the look of DAK olive, but no matter how much the maker says they are true to the original, it usually happens that straight out of the bottle is not always the way things looked in the field. The environment has a big impact on what we see from the light on the uniform or vehicle to the effects of fading, washing, dirt and grime etc. A lot of folks argue about the color of German field grey which changed over the war and was also dependent upon the manufacturer. Depending on the light English WWII battledress can look greenish or brown. The forums for miniature painters are filled with this type of discussion. I have 3 different Osprey books on DAK uniforms and the illustrations all give a different shade of the color olive. When painting figures depending on the scale you also have to lighten and/or darken colors and to consider shading and highlights. In a way it's kind of like being a makeup artist. You try to "fool" the eye of the beholder as much as possible.
So I guess my final advice is to enjoy our hobby and remember these are military "miniatures" not the actual objects themselves.

Randy
 
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