Historical accuracy (2 Viewers)

Wow, I could build those German Para Tony the Tiger wearing pajamas a nice little house to hide in. It would be a Cornflake box. Everybody, express your opinions, just think before posting. Mike:)
 
I was going to try and defend the toy soldier industry but it is not necessary.
If a guy does not like them then so what. He doesn't have to buy any. We like em and the ones we don't we trounce on deny everything up to and including the birth mother of the sculptor and get over it. Keeping something that long all pent up inside you? Was it worth it ? This is a toy soldier forum ! Hopefully none of us take it that serious.:D :D
 
Pat, I completely agree with you.;)

Welcome aboard Ypres1. As someone who has also lived in the naughty corner at times (and doesn't care) I too have pointed out some inaccuracies, as have others.

What I would say is Andy is a good listener and seems to take all on board if he can. I also agree that at the end of the day these are just toy soldiers......not to be taken too seriously:eek:

Best wishes and keep posting.:)
 
I think it is important to be a little more precise in what it means to be "historically accurate."

1) Historic impossibility - these are situations in which the figure or vehicle depicted never could have existed. For example, a King Tiger in desert camo w/Afrika Korps markings. We know that none were sent and it would, in fact, have been impossible based on the historic timeline. Most collectors would object to any such product. Depending on your point of view the Rammjager would fall here or in number 3 below.

2) Historic improbability - This occurs a lot with uniforms. Armies wear standarized uniforms for different periods. However, it is not impossible that some soldiers may improvise during a campaign to appear as depicted in the figure. Thus, the figure may not be "typical" of the period but could still be "accurate" or at least not proven "inaccurate." Some collectors object to this but most don't seem to mind if it is at least historically possible.

3) Incorrect historical context in advertising - this is probably the most common source of complaint with KC. A figure or vehicle is advertised as part of a specific battle - D-Day, Bulge etc - but someone may point out that x, y or z makes it incorrect to associate it with that battle. The figure/vehicle itself may be 100% correct outside of its association with the advertisement. For example, the WWI Corp. Hitler figure cited in this thread as historically inaccurate is actually fine outside of the context of the early war years as advertised by KC. Hitler was a corporal in the German WWI army as depicted. This issue is most problematic for dio oriented collectors that only want pieces associated with specific battles (ie they don't want "German tanks" but just those that participated at the Bulge).
 
garmour.jpg


My personal opinion
I am a different kind of collector than most here. I dont have time to research historical accuracies . I just love to have fun with my soldiers. I posted this picture on a forum once and named it Stalengrad. I was immediatly jumped on by another member because he said they didnt have panthers in Stalengrad. He was probably right and had every right to his opinion . I thanked him and politly explained to him I really dont care I am just having fun with my little army. If I took the time to research every diorama I wouldnt have time to play with them. Toy soldiers in my opinion are just that toy soldiers. Good old fashioned get them in the dirt imaginary fun and I personally have a very good imagination. Now you see why I have a hard time fitting in to most forums.
On the other hand you are right and I respect your opinion and thank you for being part of this great group of collectors.
Charlie:p
 
Whether it was historically accurate or not, Charlie, it looks great, especially with the fog effect. Must have missed it before but a real nice job. My compliments.
 
woodenwarriors said:
garmour.jpg


My personal opinion
I am a different kind of collector than most here. I dont have time to research historical accuracies . I just love to have fun with my soldiers. I posted this picture on a forum once and named it Stalengrad. I was immediatly jumped on by another member because he said they didnt have panthers in Stalengrad. He was probably right and had every right to his opinion . I thanked him and politly explained to him I really dont care I am just having fun with my little army. If I took the time to research every diorama I wouldnt have time to play with them. Toy soldiers in my opinion are just that toy soldiers. Good old fashioned get them in the dirt imaginary fun and I personally have a very good imagination. Now you see why I have a hard time fitting in to most forums.
On the other hand you are right and I respect your opinion and thank you for being part of this great group of collectors.
Charlie:p
Click to expand...

Hi Charlie,

I very much appreciate and enjoy your toy soldiering philosophy. I find your perspective is healthy, your playfulness is refreshing, your creativity is admirable, and your friendliness is enriching. There are many ways to enjoy toy soldiers and, fortunately, we each get to pick the manner in which we display our appreciation of them. The style of your hobby pleasure brings a smile to my face. I am glad you are here and I think you fit in very well!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat
 
wadepat said:
Hi Charlie,

I very much appreciate and enjoy your toy soldiering philosophy. I find your perspective is healthy, your playfulness is refreshing, your creativity is admirable, and your friendliness is enriching. There are many ways to enjoy toy soldiers and, fortunately, we each get to pick the manner in which we display our appreciation of them. The style of your hobby pleasure brings a smile to my face. I am glad you are here and I think you fit in very well!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat
Click to expand...


Wow pat that is a lot of big words that were carefully thought out and pieced together to be the best compliment I have ever had.:)
Thanks
Charlie:p
 
woodenwarriors said:
Wow pat that is a lot of big words that were carefully thought out and pieced together to be the best compliment I have ever had.:)
Thanks
Charlie:p
Click to expand...

Charlie,

You are very welcome. Keep 'em in the dirt and have a great weekend!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat :)
 
jazzeum said:
Whether it was historically accurate or not, Charlie, it looks great, especially with the fog effect. Must have missed it before but a real nice job. My compliments.
Click to expand...

My feelings exactly. Great job, Charlie!
 
Combat said:
I think it is important to be a little more precise in what it means to be "historically accurate."

1) Historic impossibility - these are situations in which the figure or vehicle depicted never could have existed. For example, a King Tiger in desert camo w/Afrika Korps markings. We know that none were sent and it would, in fact, have been impossible based on the historic timeline. Most collectors would object to any such product. Depending on your point of view the Rammjager would fall here or in number 3 below.

2) Historic improbability - This occurs a lot with uniforms. Armies wear standarized uniforms for different periods. However, it is not impossible that some soldiers may improvise during a campaign to appear as depicted in the figure. Thus, the figure may not be "typical" of the period but could still be "accurate" or at least not proven "inaccurate." Some collectors object to this but most don't seem to mind if it is at least historically possible.

3) Incorrect historical context in advertising - this is probably the most common source of complaint with KC. A figure or vehicle is advertised as part of a specific battle - D-Day, Bulge etc - but someone may point out that x, y or z makes it incorrect to associate it with that battle. The figure/vehicle itself may be 100% correct outside of its association with the advertisement. For example, the WWI Corp. Hitler figure cited in this thread as historically inaccurate is actually fine outside of the context of the early war years as advertised by KC. Hitler was a corporal in the German WWI army as depicted. This issue is most problematic for dio oriented collectors that only want pieces associated with specific battles (ie they don't want "German tanks" but just those that participated at the Bulge).
Click to expand...

Good post. Not sure that I will buy the ramjager but fancy the half track and may put it with a different figure.

I was grateful for those who pointed out that some of the German armour may not have been in the West for the Bulge battle, but still was happy to put winter stuff in my bulge dioramas.

As for uniforms, Africa is a good point in question - most armies scrounged what they could - to be really accurate the DAK should be wearing 8th Army serge gear (highly prized) driving Italian and British trucks. A Bedford, a Bedford - A kingdom for my Bedford......

And anyway, all the toy soldiers seem to have mainly clean faces and uniforms, good on Andy for having some torn patches in the bulge and DD series. !!!!:confused: :confused: :D
 
I think historic accuracy is a good forum topic to discuss and review - but, some of these guys out there get their noses out of joint really bad over it. :rolleyes: I mean these are toy soldiers for goodness sakes - if you dont like the ones that come out....then dont buy them.

It is amazing to me how many of these self proclaimed "true collectors" get really upset of this issue? Yes, we should know what is real from the period or not - but, to get angry?

Historical accuracy has a place and is good to know - but, I collect what I like and dont get to lost on the details - it takes the fun of collecting away.

Ron
 
Combat said:
I think it is important to be a little more precise in what it means to be "historically accurate."

1) Historic impossibility - these are situations in which the figure or vehicle depicted never could have existed. For example, a King Tiger in desert camo w/Afrika Korps markings. We know that none were sent and it would, in fact, have been impossible based on the historic timeline. Most collectors would object to any such product. Depending on your point of view the Rammjager would fall here or in number 3 below.

2) Historic improbability - This occurs a lot with uniforms. Armies wear standarized uniforms for different periods. However, it is not impossible that some soldiers may improvise during a campaign to appear as depicted in the figure. Thus, the figure may not be "typical" of the period but could still be "accurate" or at least not proven "inaccurate." Some collectors object to this but most don't seem to mind if it is at least historically possible.

3) Incorrect historical context in advertising - this is probably the most common source of complaint with KC. A figure or vehicle is advertised as part of a specific battle - D-Day, Bulge etc - but someone may point out that x, y or z makes it incorrect to associate it with that battle. The figure/vehicle itself may be 100% correct outside of its association with the advertisement. For example, the WWI Corp. Hitler figure cited in this thread as historically inaccurate is actually fine outside of the context of the early war years as advertised by KC. Hitler was a corporal in the German WWI army as depicted. This issue is most problematic for dio oriented collectors that only want pieces associated with specific battles (ie they don't want "German tanks" but just those that participated at the Bulge).
Click to expand...

Good points there Combat.
 
Just read the last ten threads, this is why this fourm rules. We have a whole diverse of collectors here. I think it is great to have historical accurate collectors as well as who cares collectors. It's fun it's a Hobby, some people collect everything, some just what they like. We have metal collectors as well as plastic collectors. All we have to remember is, try and respect each others opinions, Opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one, and everybody thinks everybody elses stinks. I really don't think everybody elses opinion stinks, like how I collect, if I don't need it or like it, I won't buy it. If I don't agree with or respect opinions, I ignore them. Welcome ypres, remember to post lightly, but by all means, express your opinion. Mike:)
 
modwalls said:
Just read the last ten threads, this is why this fourm rules. We have a whole diverse of collectors here. I think it is great to have historical accurate collectors as well as who cares collectors. It's fun it's a Hobby, some people collect everything, some just what they like. We have metal collectors as well as plastic collectors. All we have to remember is, try and respect each others opinions, Opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one, and everybody thinks everybody elses stinks. I really don't think everybody elses opinion stinks, like how I collect, if I don't need it or like it, I won't buy it. If I don't agree with or respect opinions, I ignore them. Welcome ypres, remember to post lightly, but by all means, express your opinion. Mike:)
Click to expand...

Love the "buttholes" analogy. Great one Mike.
 
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