Hitler's First War (1 Viewer)

Combat

Brigadier General
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
10,518
I haven't finished this one yet, but an interesting study of a lesser known but important period in Hitler's life. There is not much documentation on his WWI years, so the author focuses on the typical experiences of the men in the List Regiment to make assessments about Hitler's experience and how the war impacted him. He also challenges certain assumptions about typical German soldier in WWI:

"Perhaps no individual in modern history has received more intensive study than Adolf Hitler. His many biographers have provided countless conflicting interpretations of his dark life, but virtually all agree on one thing: Hitler's formative experience was his service in World War I. Unfortunately, historians have found little to illuminate this critical period. Until now.

In Hitler's First War, award-winning author Thomas Weber delivers a master work of history—a major revision of our understanding of Hitler's life. Weber paints a group portrait of the List Regiment, Hitler's unit during World War I, to rewrite the story of his military service. Drawing on deep and imaginative research, Weber refutes the story crafted by Hitler himself, and so challenges the historical argument that the war led naturally to Nazism. Contrary to myth, the regiment consisted largely of conscripts, not enthusiastic volunteers. Hitler served with scores of Jews, including noted artist Albert Weisberger, who proved more heroic, and popular, than the future Führer. Indeed, Weber finds that the men shunned Private Hitler as a "rear area pig," and that Hitler himself was still unsure of his political views when the war ended in 1918. Through the stories of such comrades as a soldier-turned-concentration camp commandant, veterans who fell victim to the Holocaust, an officer who became Hitler's personal adjutant in the 1930s but then cooperated with British intelligence, and the veterans who simply went back to their Bavarian farms and never joined the Nazi ranks, Weber demonstrates how and why Hitler aggressively policed the myth of his wartime experience.

Underlying all Hitler studies is a seemingly unanswerable question: Was he simply a product of his times, or an anomaly beyond all calculation? Weber's groundbreaking work sheds light on this puzzle and offers a profound challenge to the idea that World War I served as the perfect crucible for Hitler's subsequent rise."
 
Thanks for the heads up. This sounds like a really interesting and important work. Will put it on my list. -- Al
 
Combat...

Without wishing to spoil it for you let us know when your finished as its a great book with some points which can be discussed and debated quite a lot and, would like to discuss its findings with you and others who have read it
Mitch
 
Ixec...

Thanks for posting. I read this and it left more questions unanswered than it answered and look forward to discussing it. Heavily slanted IMO but, understandably so
Mitch
 
There is a heated discussion on another forum about this book with the author taking part, see link below.....

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=170318

Interesting discussion with even the author participating. I do think there is a natural tendency to vilify every aspect of Hitler's life whether it is deserved or not. Particularly by book reviewers looking for a good headline. Tag lines like Hitler was deemed a "rear area pig" by his comrades are designed to convey that Hitler was a coward or slacker. In reality, it would be natural for those serving on the front lines to have some resentment of those who were messengers. Whether Hitler or anyone else. However, there is little evidence that Hitler was anything other than a soldier who did his duty. Neither a war hero or coward. In fact, the author goes to great pains to point out that most German soldiers in the List regiment were conscripts. But Hitler was an enthusiastic volunteer. Hardly a sign that he was a coward. He wasn't even German and could have avoided serving in the German army.

Like I said before I haven't finished this one, but it hasn't answered some obvious questions. For example, how or why did Hitler became a messenger in the first place? It may have saved his life. If it was such a cushy job, then how was Hitler picked? One important aspect about Hitler that I think remains a mystery is how someone with very little formal education or interest in politics developed into a revolutionary, politician, statesman and then military commander. When you read about his life up to 1918 and look at those pictures of him in WWI there is absolutely no hint that he could have mastered any of those tasks. He was not promoted in large part due to his lack of leadership qualities. He apparently did not read much or have an interest in politics. Some inexplicable transformation took place after his WWI injuries and during the period of about 1918-22. He is something of an historical anomaly in that regard. With most leaders you can trace a sort of pattern to their development. With Hitler there seems to be a giant leap in about 1922 from an aimless nobody to a historical personality with very fixed ideals. This transformation seemed to have happened very quickly such that even noteworthy figures of the time like Goering recognized him as the leader of the party from the beginning.
 
I found it strange that after reading some good books and accounts on WWI that runners were seen as having had an easy life and somehow did not face danger. This is one of the first accounts where I have seen this as all the others I have seen have said it was dangerous. So, I think this may be another way to try and belittle the image of Hitler as anything other than a demon.

I think its easier for many, to think that Hitler was some despised character even by his army comrades which, other accounts have not adopted. As you say not a coward and not a hero (whatever, that can be considered to be and who has the right to state this) but, was sufficient a soldier to recieve several decorations and promotions however, minor.

Its a good point not answered by this book how he became so enigmatic when there were some strong personalities in the movement at the early stage. Certainly seems an anomaly but, maybe he was acutely atuned to the times he lived in and, was aware of the mood post war in Germany?
Mitch
 
On the same subject....

Here is a interesting link....read some of the posting comments...

http://victoriacross.wordpress.com/2007/03/12/the-man-who-didn’t-shoot-hitler/

I would take that story not only with a grain of salt but an entire dump truck full. Veterans sometimes have a lively imagination of events after the fact. Maybe something like that happened to Hitler and he connected it to a similar story he read. Or made the whole thing up. It was a big war, so it just seems unlikely.
 
Bit to far fetched when the book suggests he was not at the front and was a rear pig.
Mitch
 
I would take that story not only with a grain of salt but an entire dump truck full. Veterans sometimes have a lively imagination of events after the fact. Maybe something like that happened to Hitler and he connected it to a similar story he read. Or made the whole thing up. It was a big war, so it just seems unlikely.



Did you know that Henry Tandey was the most decorated British soldier of WW I....?

Hardly the imaginative..type indeed, wouldn't you say...?

He was a national hero and most certainly would have been Knighted by the Queen had he been an officer...

His medals were sold by his daughter after his death for 70.000lbs.
 
IXEC...

I have read that Tandey did not actually state that he recollected any such incident and, there are reports which show Hitler was not in the area and one which states he was returning from leave. Its not the case of doubting a war hero but, the fact that there are so many different versions and explanations to what actually happened and what did not over this incident
Mitch
 
IXEC...

I have read that Tandey did not actually state that he recollected any such incident and, there are reports which show Hitler was not in the area and one which states he was returning from leave. Its not the case of doubting a war hero but, the fact that there are so many different versions and explanations to what actually happened and what did not over this incident
Mitch



Tandey nephew recalled the phone call from Chamberlin made to his father, just after his return from Germany....
 
Last edited:
Did you know that Henry Tandey was the most decorated British soldier of WW I....?

Hardly the imaginative..type indeed, wouldn't you say...?

He was a national hero and most certainly would have been Knighted by the Queen had he been an officer...

His medals were sold by his daughter after his death for 70.000lbs.

Tandey didn't know Hitler at the time of the incident. And Hitler didn't know him. It was Hitler who suggested he was the German soldier involved in the story. Probably when he read about it later. Like I said, Hitler may have experienced a similar situation and connected it to that story later on. Or just made the entire thing up. But the odds that it was Hitler are fairly slim.
 
Tandey didn't know Hitler at the time of the incident. And Hitler didn't know him. It was Hitler who suggested he was the German soldier involved in the story. Probably when he read about it later. Like I said, Hitler may have experienced a similar situation and connected it to that story later on. Or just made the entire thing up. But the odds that it was Hitler are fairly slim.


They not knowing each other ...is quite obvious to say the lease.....

Whats rather remarkable is that Hitler would have that painting at Berteschgarten....a point noticed by Chamberlain himself....

Here's the full story....

http://www.worldwar1.com/heritage/hitler2.htm
 
Last edited:
They not knowing each other ...is quite obvious to say the lease.....

Whats rather remarkable is that Hitler would have that painting at Berteschgarten....a point noticed by Chamberlain himself....

Here's the full story....

http://www.worldwar1.com/heritage/hitler2.htm

Hitler believed that he was protected by providence with all the failed attempts on his life. He certainly was a lucky bastard on many occasions. This is may be an early example of that tendency. My guess is this story is another example to bolster that myth. He probably even believed it himself since it was self-serving, but he was not exactly known for his veracity. That would explain displaying the painting particularly for Chamberlain. He also probably got a kick out of sticking it to the Brits by giving them the impression they had a chance to kill him.
 
Hitler believed that he was protected by providence with all the failed attempts on his life. He certainly was a lucky bastard on many occasions. This is may be an early example of that tendency. My guess is this story is another example to bolster that myth. He probably even believed it himself since it was self-serving, but he was not exactly known for his veracity. That would explain displaying the painting particularly for Chamberlain. He also probably got a kick out of sticking it to the Brits by giving them the impression they had a chance to kill him.


There are 37 known attempts on Hitler's life.

I say known, because not long ago it was revealed that a bombing raid was launched on a small town in Italy because it was though Hitler was there.

I'm sure there were more simular "attempt".....

And Hitler was a prolific reader....he once confided that he had read all of 500 volumes on European history in the Vienna library.
 
There are 37 known attempts on Hitler's life.

I say known, because not long ago it was revealed that a bombing raid was launched on a small town in Italy because it was though Hitler was there.

I'm sure there were more simular "attempt".....

And Hitler was a prolific reader....he once confided that he had read all of 500 volumes on European history in the Vienna library.

Almost anything that Hitler said about himself is doubtful. It was usually designed to cultivate a desired image for the public. Kershaw or someone wrote about his reading habits. He considered a book read by flipping through it. He did read newspapers and magazines, but that would have been a common practice in his time. Hitler claimed to have studied Marx and others but there is no real evidence to support. He was primarily interested in conveying an image of being a self-educated man who came to his views through his life experiences rather than a university education. He was a big fan of Karl May who wrote books about the American west. Strange but true.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top